|
IowaSkinsFan
|
09-27-2006, 02:54 PM
Post subject: Is Libertarian the way to go?
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
|
|
About a year ago, I began to consider myself libertarian. Because it sounded like their beliefs were the beliefs this country was founded on.
Liberalism(democracy) is founded on the fact that the government is here to protect our rights, captilism is founded on the fact that with almost no government intervention and everyone actiong in their own self interests, the economy will succeed...
Yet every day people try to take away these rights and try to stop us from doing what is in our own self interest. People... you live in America because you want the freedom to make your own decisions. If you don't want that freedom, move! I think its time people start pointing ourselves back in the right direction. Not everyone is going to go out on the street and protest. But you can at least change your vote!
P.S. I am not some schmo who works for the libertarian party that is trying to promote it.
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
pgil
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
|
|
the problem is, in practice, with no intervention of any kind, capitalism leads to one massive corporation that runs everything and has no competition. the only thing that keeps capitalism working is if there is real competition (not collusion and price fixing, ie oil industry). the most obvious way to get to a situation where there is competition is through governmental regulation.
|
|
"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
|
|
alias2211
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: U, S and A!!!
Posts: 469
|
|
yes, obv.
|
|
|
|
Renton
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
|
|
naw man
Christian Fanatical Racist Sexist Homophobic Conservative is the only way to be.
|
|
|
|
gabe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
|
|
i vote libertarian
|
|
|
|
drmcboy
|
|
DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,602
|
|
1)pgil is right
2) easier to move than get a real third party going. You can't just change your vote. Change it to who?
3)if you look at the founding ideas of all major (and minor) parties, they all sound great. It's like saying the blurb on the back of a movie makes it look really good.
4) people live in american because they were born here. An amazing amount of them really don't want people to make their own decisions as it relates to religion, expression, drug use, gambling, abortion, gun control, etc. They have a view and they want people to abide by it.
|
|
|
|
DaHorror
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 616
|
|
Libertarian legalized drugs and prosititution ftw!
|
|
|
|
thenonsequitur
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 637
|
|
philosopher kings
|
|
|
|
IowaSkinsFan
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by thenonsequitur
philosopher kings
|
I actually agree with this. If we had an "enlightend" leader....which i dont know exists... i would want him to have as much power as possible.
|
|
|
|
Renton
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by thenonsequitur
philosopher kings
|
I actually agree with this. If we had an "enlightend" leader....which i dont know exists... i would want him to have as much power as possible. |
thats sounds like elitism
|
|
|
|
OBLONG$HLONG
|
|
|
|
capitalism stole my virginity
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pgil
the problem is, in practice, with no intervention of any kind, capitalism leads to one massive corporation that runs everything and has no competition. the only thing that keeps capitalism working is if there is real competition (not collusion and price fixing, ie oil industry). the most obvious way to get to a situation where there is competition is through governmental regulation.
|
You'd like to think that, would ya?
http://www.amazon.com/Give-Me-Break-...e=UTF8&s=books
For what it's worth, I consider myself a moderate Libertarian and have voted as such in the past. Particulary when it came to the Lt. Governor position in WA State (DUCY?)
I think the Libertarian party is too isolationist on forign policy and I certainly disagree with the anarcho-capitalist wing as government does have a limited role to play including industry regulation. However, they pretty much hit the nail on the head on everything else and we really could use their voice in positions of power.
Best case scenario is that one of the two major parties loses critical mass and the Libertarians fill in the void.
|
|
|
|
Phantaroth
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 505
|
|
Im mostly Libertarian as well.
Fnord is right about Anarcho-Capitalism (which is hated to the extreme by most so called Anarchists) in that at this extreme end of the spectrum, it would crash and burn.
So i'm moderately conservative on economics and very very very liberal on social issues... I don't think the government has much need for involvement in social issues, but due to limited product economically, and unlimited population, it is important to establish government regulation to avoid a monopoly on things needed to survive.
|
|
|
|
LeFou
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
|
|
I'm a Green Libertarian, I think. When anarcho-capitalist call themselves libertarians it disturbs me, because most of them are actually propertarians. Not everything is property, and treating everything as property is not the most efficient way to allocate it.
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by LeFou
Not everything is property, and treating everything as property is not the most efficient way to allocate it.
|
Your thinking is horribly flawed. When no one has stewardship over something, it goes to shit. Pollution is a far far worse problem in Russia and Eastern Europe than the big bad US of A.
Read the book I linked.
Also read this:
http://www.amazon.com/Global-Warming...e=UTF8&s=books
or if you're more scientific/educated you might be able to handle this
http://www.amazon.com/Skeptical-Envi...743112?ie=UTF8
Bjorn Lomborg goes out of his way to cite sources and give real science to back up his material. He also traces down source material from his critics. For a guy with a genuine interest in making the world better for humanity, it's almost criminal how he was treated by much of the environmental community.
|
|
|
|
LeFou
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
|
|
Meh. I have a lot of books to read already.
Okay, Fnord where do you stand on treating ideas as property? I didn't say things flourish without stewardship; I said allocation -- for example of zero-marginal-cost goods -- is not necessarily best accomplished through property rights.
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by LeFou
Okay, Fnord where do you stand on treating ideas as property?
|
Difficult and complicated subject.
|
|
|
|
boost
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 706
|
|
I think Im in way over my head here, so Im not going to act like I know what Im talking about. I do agree with some stuff that Ive heard libertarians say, however I dont really get what they want? No govt regulation? I mean too much is obviously bad because then we have no free will. Too little seems just as bad though because people in power can easily abuse thier power. Child labor laws are govt regulation. Sure its an extreme example, but without them I might be dead now, and would have spent my previous 20 years of life mining for coal and coating my longs with coal dust.
It seems just like most things, a healthy balance is needed.
|
|
|
|
LeFou
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
|
|
Real libertarianism is a little more fundamental than "minimal govt. regulation". That's basically a standard conservative plank -- or rather, it was once.
The basic principle is that "all human interaction should be voluntary and consensual" and that this includes interaction between citizens and government. In more conventional social contract theory the people grant a "monopoly on physical force" to the State. Libertarians reject this and assert that the state has no more right to coerce (through physical or economic punishment) than other entities.
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Here is the Libertarian Policial Party's views. Read them for yourself, it's a short read.
http://www.lp.org/issues/issues.shtml
The core problem is that there is no voice for smaller government in the spirit of Jefferson. The Republicans say one thing, but after grabbing power grew the government faster than the Democrats. Also, too few serious people are having debates about fixing our destructive drug and sex regulations.
|
|
|
|
Rondavu
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
|
|
I am most definately Libertarian. I found this out by listening to extreme games hosted by Jay Severin. Of course he's kind of a crackpot, but at least he taught me who I am.
The biggest problem with laissez faire{spam link}is that men are not inherently honest, moral, or good to fellow man.
I believe deeply that any truly open minded person should either already be leaning libertarian, or investigate what it is if they haven't. Libertarian is quite simply the most reasonable and rational solution compatible with humans, with all our endeavors, drive, and enjoyments.
A libertarian candidate would never dream of outlawing online poker, because he knows as a lot of us do that it's a stupid and ignorant idea regardless of my interest in it.
|
|
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
|
|
thenonsequitur
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 637
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rondavu
I believe deeply that any truly open minded person should either already be leaning libertarian, or investigate what it is if they haven't. Libertarian is quite simply the most reasonable and rational solution compatible with humans, with all our endeavors, drive, and enjoyments.
|
Amen.
|
|
|
|
drmcboy
|
|
DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,602
|
|
I love the link Fnord. Even if it doesn't work, it doesn't work now.
If there is no Lib. canidate, do you guys not vote for that office or go with lesser of the two evils?
|
|
|
|
ripjohngotti
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,191
|
|
It sounds good but let face it, as soon as any party gets that power.
Look out it forgets about why they are there..
Politics is all about money,power, and getting more votes for your party.
|
|
30%
Still looking for my royal flush.
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
Linear Mode
