is this legal?

**will641** · 06-15-2012 08:16 PM

so i've been working at a restaurant for a while as a bartender, and the owner takes out 5% of our credit card tips. this is the only restaurant i've worked at so i thought this was typical, since the cc company's have a 5% charge on sales. however, i didn't realize that gratuity is not considered a sale, and that this is actually the only restaurant that does this, based on what everybody else who has worked in restaurants. so essentially, the owner is taking 5% of our tips to help pay for his god damn credit card charges.

**givememyleg** · 06-15-2012 08:23 PM

probably legal, but sounds lame. my sister is a bartender at 2 different places and they don't do that at either place.

**jyms** · 06-15-2012 08:54 PM

It's legal if you agreed to it. It's immoral and a bit douchebaggery but not illegal.

**supa** · 06-15-2012 10:49 PM

Do some work on google and find out. It may vary from state to state but from what I've seen it's not legal, 'An employer cannot require that an employee pay credit cards costs' and 'State wage order prohibits employers from deducting credit card processing fees from a servers credit card tips'.

Imo he's fucking you. Call the labor board or whatever form of that you have in your state and if it's illegal they'll go after him for you. He'll have to pay your back tips and anyone else he's done that to going back years. He'll never know it was you but it might put him out of business so you might wanna think about looking for another job. Who the fuck want to work for a dbag like that anyway?

**supa** · 06-15-2012 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by jyms

It's legal if you agreed to it. It's immoral and a bit douchebaggery but not illegal.

Not true, if I sign a contract saying my company doesn't have to give me breaks it's still illegal for them to do and I could go after that company for back wages later. No court in the US would consider that contract legal, even though I agreed to it.

**KoRnholio** · 06-15-2012 11:02 PM

5% sounds too high for a business' credit card fees. I believe it's a nominal monthly fee, plus 0.9 to 2.9% depending on the total dollar amount charged that month/year.

As for legality, I have no idea.

**kevster** · 06-15-2012 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by supa

Not true, if I sign a contract saying my company doesn't have to give me breaks it's still illegal for them to do and I could go after that company for back wages later. No court in the US would consider that contract legal, even though I agreed to it.

Agree 100%. There's all kinds of issues around implicit/assumed/explicit knowledge/consent and written/un-written contracts but, even if Will knew about this from the start, it's still illegal.

**jackvance** · 06-16-2012 11:19 PM

Is it worth it to sue for something like this? I mean financially, considering lawyer costs.

**Micro2Macro** · 06-17-2012 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by jackvance

Is it worth it to sue for something like this? I mean financially, considering lawyer costs.

pretty much no

**bjsaust** · 06-17-2012 05:20 AM

...

You could always have a discussion rather than jump straight into law suits...

**supa** · 06-17-2012 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by jackvance

Is it worth it to sue for something like this? I mean financially, considering lawyer costs.

There is no suing needed. It probably depends on where you live but in California if you have a legal dispute with an employer you can call the Labor Board and they pretty much just handle the situation for you. No lawyers or lawyer fees. The Labor Board is a watchdog put in place to protect employee rights. They're very aggressive and from what I've seen very good at their jobs.

**Galapogos** · 06-17-2012 09:03 AM

If a job's allowed to tell you're not allowed to keeps tips, I'm pretty sure a job would be allowed to tell you how much of a tip you're allowed to keep.

**supa** · 06-17-2012 03:00 PM

I don't think an employer is allowed to tell you you can't keep your tips. They can say you're not allowed to accept tips, but they can't take tips from you once you've earned them.

**supa** · 06-17-2012 03:05 PM

Where do you live Will?

**boost** · 06-18-2012 08:40 AM

this is definitely illegal in the two states I've held waiter jobs, and likely illegal everywhere in the US. That being said, while fairly uncommon, it's not unheard of.

**kiwiMark** · 06-18-2012 08:59 AM

Over here in Europe from my limited experience, it's not uncommon for you to not be able to change the amount you're paying when paying by card (ie. you can't add a tip), so the only way to tip is if you have cash. Tipping here is a different ballgame though.

**flomo** · 06-20-2012 04:07 PM

Sounds very lame.

06-15-2012 08:16 PM #1
will641 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Aug 2007 Posts 5,300 Location getting my swell on	is this legal? so i've been working at a restaurant for a while as a bartender, and the owner takes out 5% of our credit card tips. this is the only restaurant i've worked at so i thought this was typical, since the cc company's have a 5% charge on sales. however, i didn't realize that gratuity is not considered a sale, and that this is actually the only restaurant that does this, based on what everybody else who has worked in restaurants. so essentially, the owner is taking 5% of our tips to help pay for his god damn credit card charges.
	Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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06-15-2012 08:23 PM #2
givememyleg View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 13,797 Location ISHPERMING MISHIGEN	probably legal, but sounds lame. my sister is a bartender at 2 different places and they don't do that at either place.
	ante up with your ass cuz you ain't got a penny
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06-15-2012 08:54 PM #3
jyms View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message TILTING MOD Join Date Feb 2006 Posts 9,281	It's legal if you agreed to it. It's immoral and a bit douchebaggery but not illegal.
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06-15-2012 10:49 PM #4
supa View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Feb 2010 Posts 3,334 Location At the bar drinking whisky with an "e"	Do some work on google and find out. It may vary from state to state but from what I've seen it's not legal, 'An employer cannot require that an employee pay credit cards costs' and 'State wage order prohibits employers from deducting credit card processing fees from a servers credit card tips'. Imo he's fucking you. Call the labor board or whatever form of that you have in your state and if it's illegal they'll go after him for you. He'll have to pay your back tips and anyone else he's done that to going back years. He'll never know it was you but it might put him out of business so you might wanna think about looking for another job. Who the fuck want to work for a dbag like that anyway?
	“Right thoughts produce right actions and right actions produce work which will be a material reflection for others to see of the serenity at the center of it all” Put hero on a goddamn range part II- The 6max years Originally Posted by d0zer start using your brain more and vagina less Originally Posted by kingnat Members who's signature is a humorous quote about his/herself made by someone who is considered a notable member of the FTR community to give themselves a sense of belonging.
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06-15-2012 10:53 PM #5
supa View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Feb 2010 Posts 3,334 Location At the bar drinking whisky with an "e"	Originally Posted by jyms It's legal if you agreed to it. It's immoral and a bit douchebaggery but not illegal. Not true, if I sign a contract saying my company doesn't have to give me breaks it's still illegal for them to do and I could go after that company for back wages later. No court in the US would consider that contract legal, even though I agreed to it.
	“Right thoughts produce right actions and right actions produce work which will be a material reflection for others to see of the serenity at the center of it all” Put hero on a goddamn range part II- The 6max years Originally Posted by d0zer start using your brain more and vagina less Originally Posted by kingnat Members who's signature is a humorous quote about his/herself made by someone who is considered a notable member of the FTR community to give themselves a sense of belonging.
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06-15-2012 11:02 PM #6
KoRnholio View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jul 2005 Posts 2,753 Location Canada	5% sounds too high for a business' credit card fees. I believe it's a nominal monthly fee, plus 0.9 to 2.9% depending on the total dollar amount charged that month/year. As for legality, I have no idea.
	Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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06-15-2012 11:05 PM #7
kevster View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date May 2006 Posts 2,063 Location Fold City	Originally Posted by supa Not true, if I sign a contract saying my company doesn't have to give me breaks it's still illegal for them to do and I could go after that company for back wages later. No court in the US would consider that contract legal, even though I agreed to it. Agree 100%. There's all kinds of issues around implicit/assumed/explicit knowledge/consent and written/un-written contracts but, even if Will knew about this from the start, it's still illegal.
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06-16-2012 11:19 PM #8
jackvance View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Mar 2006 Posts 4,312	Is it worth it to sue for something like this? I mean financially, considering lawyer costs.
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06-17-2012 02:56 AM #9
Micro2Macro View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jan 2009 Posts 5,038 Location No structure	Originally Posted by jackvance Is it worth it to sue for something like this? I mean financially, considering lawyer costs. pretty much no

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06-17-2012 05:20 AM #10
bjsaust View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date May 2007 Posts 6,282 Location Ballarat, Australia	... You could always have a discussion rather than jump straight into law suits...
	Just dipping my toes back in.
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06-17-2012 05:38 AM #11
supa View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Feb 2010 Posts 3,334 Location At the bar drinking whisky with an "e"	Originally Posted by jackvance Is it worth it to sue for something like this? I mean financially, considering lawyer costs. There is no suing needed. It probably depends on where you live but in California if you have a legal dispute with an employer you can call the Labor Board and they pretty much just handle the situation for you. No lawyers or lawyer fees. The Labor Board is a watchdog put in place to protect employee rights. They're very aggressive and from what I've seen very good at their jobs.
	“Right thoughts produce right actions and right actions produce work which will be a material reflection for others to see of the serenity at the center of it all” Put hero on a goddamn range part II- The 6max years Originally Posted by d0zer start using your brain more and vagina less Originally Posted by kingnat Members who's signature is a humorous quote about his/herself made by someone who is considered a notable member of the FTR community to give themselves a sense of belonging.
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06-17-2012 09:03 AM #12
Galapogos View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jun 2005 Posts 6,528 Location The Loser's Lounge	If a job's allowed to tell you're not allowed to keeps tips, I'm pretty sure a job would be allowed to tell you how much of a tip you're allowed to keep.
	Originally Posted by sauce123 I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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06-17-2012 03:00 PM #13
supa View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Feb 2010 Posts 3,334 Location At the bar drinking whisky with an "e"	I don't think an employer is allowed to tell you you can't keep your tips. They can say you're not allowed to accept tips, but they can't take tips from you once you've earned them.
	“Right thoughts produce right actions and right actions produce work which will be a material reflection for others to see of the serenity at the center of it all” Put hero on a goddamn range part II- The 6max years Originally Posted by d0zer start using your brain more and vagina less Originally Posted by kingnat Members who's signature is a humorous quote about his/herself made by someone who is considered a notable member of the FTR community to give themselves a sense of belonging.
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06-17-2012 03:05 PM #14
supa View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Feb 2010 Posts 3,334 Location At the bar drinking whisky with an "e"	Where do you live Will?
	“Right thoughts produce right actions and right actions produce work which will be a material reflection for others to see of the serenity at the center of it all” Put hero on a goddamn range part II- The 6max years Originally Posted by d0zer start using your brain more and vagina less Originally Posted by kingnat Members who's signature is a humorous quote about his/herself made by someone who is considered a notable member of the FTR community to give themselves a sense of belonging.
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06-18-2012 08:40 AM #15
boost View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Mar 2005 Posts 8,931 Location Chicago	this is definitely illegal in the two states I've held waiter jobs, and likely illegal everywhere in the US. That being said, while fairly uncommon, it's not unheard of.

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06-18-2012 08:59 AM #16
kiwiMark View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jul 2009 Posts 3,259 Location Nu Zuland bru	Over here in Europe from my limited experience, it's not uncommon for you to not be able to change the amount you're paying when paying by card (ie. you can't add a tip), so the only way to tip is if you have cash. Tipping here is a different ballgame though.

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06-20-2012 04:07 PM #17
flomo View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Mar 2006 Posts 5,467 Location mashing potatoes	Sounds very lame.
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