IVEY = STONE-COLD IMMORTAL NUTS W/CHERRY ON TOP

[baudib]

deserves own thread imo

For many years, I have been proud to call myself a poker player. This great sport has taken me to places I only imagined going and I have been blessed with much success. It is therefore with deep regret that I believe I am compelled to release the following statement.

I am deeply disappointed and embarrassed that Full Tilt players have not been paid money they are owed. I am equally embarrassed that as a result many players cannot compete in tournaments and have suffered economic harm

I am not playing in the World Series of Poker as I do not believe it is fair that I compete when others cannot. I am doing everything I can to seek a solution to the problem as quickly as possible.

My name and reputation have been dragged through the mud, through the inactivity and indecision of others and on behalf of all poker players I refuse to remain silent any longer. I have electronically filed a lawsuit against Tiltware related to the unsettled player accounts. As I am sure the public can imagine, this was not an easy decision for me

I wholeheartedly refuse to accept non-action as to repayment of players funds and I am angered that people who have supported me throughout my career have been treated so poorly.

I sincerely hope this statement will ignite those capable of resolving the problems into immediate action and would like to clarify that until a solution is reached that cements the security of all players, both US and International, I will, as I have for the last six weeks, dedicate the entirety of my time and efforts to finding a solution for those who have been wronged by the painfully slow process of repayment.

[bigspenda73]

he's also pretty much saying US players aint getting shit for a while from FTP

[boost]

Would be a sick level if hes gonna now buy up metric shit tons of FTP monies for pennies on the dollar using proxies.

[baudib]

he's also pretty much saying US players aint getting shit for a while from FTP

I agree that this appears to be the most likely scenario and it doesn't seem likely that this will aid efforts to "raise capital" but it could also mean that Phil knows that FTP is stalling or doing something shady instead of making payments to U.S. players a priority.

[mbiz]

Worded very delicately by his PR rep. I like it though

[spoonitnow]

[BankItDrew]

good for him

[OngBonga]

I, too, will refuse to play in this year's WSOP in support of FTP players.

[philly and the phanatics]

hahah i lol'd

[d0zer]

I lol'd at poker being called a "sport"

[pocketfours]

How does his actions help anyone with money on FTP? I'd argue that the opposite is true and def wouldn't call him a hero because of this at all.

[baudib]

I don't want to speak for the people who have so much more at stake than me, but it means a great deal to me for someone of Ivey's stature and his obvious inside knowledge to step up to the plate and tell the public that something is very wrong with Full Tilt. IT is obvious if you read between the lines and follow FTPDoug's non-answers, but all we've heard so far is deafening silence or people like Brandon Adams or Tony G. or Scott Matusow saying, "LOL relax, you'll get your money."


I want my money, too, and again, it's not much compared to many others here. I have a job and I have (Barely) enough offline to play the local live games. Still, I cannot say that it is morally acceptable for people like Ivey and other name FT members to stay silent or mouth the party line just so Euros and Canadians continue funneling money into a shady company so that I can get my money and the rest of the world can get screwed later.

[bikes]

How does his actions help anyone with money on FTP? I'd argue that the opposite is true and def wouldn't call him a hero because of this at all.

I think this seems to be the case as well and most likely Ivey has ended up hurting a lot of Americans here.

[bigspenda73]

agree with both of you 100%

[Halv]

Yep, absolutely beautifully played by Ivey. FTP + players' future looks much bleaker now than before, and still he's praised as some kind of hero.

[baudib]

Either A. FT has the money and are stalling for some reason (Ivey's statement: "indecision and non-action") or B. there is no money because of the massive mismanagement by a criminal enterprise (trying to "raise capital" per FTPDoug).

If it's A. then Ivey's actions may force FT to get us our money back. If B. then it doesn't matter because Ray spent the money.

[Halv]

if B then FTP's brand value (and the chances of them getting new investors and non-us business) pre-lawsuit was WAY higher

[baudib]

Let's pose a hypothetical.

You are well-known, famous Full Tilt pro Player X. You see your name being dragged through the mud along with all of FT. You sincerely hope to see all the American customers paid back. You have insider information that shady shit is going on and/or there is not a legitimate effort being made by the higher-ups to get this done or you know that the company is insolvent or that higher management is embezzling the money.

You also have friends/fans in Europe still playing on Full Tilt. They ask you, "Player X, should I continue playing, or should I just get my money out ASAP?"

You know full well that if the international player pool dries up, the company will go under and there is no chance your American friends will get paid.

I don't believe you can ethically encourage people to still generate rake/deposit on Full Tilt, even at the expense of Americans.

[kiwiMark]

am I black in this hypothetical?

[boost]

Ya, baudib breaks it down pretty salad.

[Halv]

I'll confess I didn't read your long post from earlier in the thread. I'm coming from a practical and selfish point of view, with little concern for ethics (somewhat normal for poker players, I would guess). The moral/ethical question is complicated since we don't have all the information (even if shady stuff has been and continues to go on, the site might generate enough profits in the long term to pay out americans _and_ remain open for non-us business), but hailing Ivey as if he's raptor christ reborn seems naive regardless.

Even if he does have damning inside information, why would you assume that ethics has played a major role in his decision to file suit? From what I've read of cliffs of the lawsuit it's pretty clear that he's first and foremost concerned with himself - afaik it only mentions players not being paid in reference to the damage this does to his name/brand. Nothing wrong with him looking out for himself, and nothing wrong with spinning it so that he appears a hero. Happens in other areas every day. But I don't agree with blindly accepting the spin as truth, especially when it has obvious practical impacts that will affect every player american or not. Not that this thread is anything close to what 2p2 had going on when the news broke, it's mostly the thread title that gets to me.

btw, I've personally been happy to keep generating rake on FTP since BF and would prefer that the site survives even if there has been and continues to be shady shit going on. If they make it through this with acceptable player pools I will keep giving them some of my action, for purely selfish reasons and knowing that my on-site bankroll will be at a certain risk. For now, though, this lawsuit makes me keep my ftp roll and action at the absolute minimum to keep my iron man status. Of course I'm way more aware of the situation than the average eurofish who our hypothetical player X is trying to protect, but if he wants to protect the fish then he really shouldn't be promoting online poker to begin with. Sooner or later the fish goes broke anyway. (like I said, though, I'm not too concerned with ethics, so to save time I'll just counter this argument myself by saying "So it would be okay to super-user vs the fish?" )

[Halv]

I don't think I have another wuf sized post in me, so from here on out my responses will likely be "yes", "no" and kiiiinda clever not so funny one-liners.

[bikes]

from what ive read and talked to euro friends the ivey comments are the final nail in the coffin to stop giving FTP business as well as withdrawing most of their rolls.

It is not good news when a influential figure as well as a decent sized share holder goes off on the company like this at all. it reduces confidence in the company and really hurts FTP's chances of selling a stake in the company or securing a loan to pay back Americans. If enough damage is done the full tilt may even decide to just pull the plug and close shop which would be disastrous for all, however this is a worse case.

fwiw i've played exclusively on FTP since i regained access to my accounts and now after reading the ivey suit and the fall out i'm switching perma to stars. I know many grinders who are doing the same. his law suit, like halvsame has said, seems very self serving.


the person who should be getting lots of credit here is Tom Dwan. Who has pledged to return 100% of the money FTP gave him for sponsorship to the players, if Full Tilt should go under. Unfortunately this news has seen little light of day, which is unfortunate because his offer >>>>> Phil Ivey's Lawsuit.

[baudib]

I'm willing to take Phil's statement at face value, he is not some blatant self-promoter like Tony G or dipshit degen like Mike Matusow. I don't understand why he would make the grandiose gesture of withdrawing from the WSOP other than to make it clear that he stood in solidarity with the unpaid American players.

(LOL@ the idea he was scurred to play, as if anyone would do shit to Ivey.)

What I can figure out, from reading various sources and talking to a few lawyer friends, is that the way Ivey's suit is structured/worded is very unusual. It seems to be multi-pronged in that it is injunctive yet also seeks damages. Despite FT's statement that Ivey owes THEM money, I'm pretty sure we can all agree that Ivey has serious FUCK-YOU money and it seems highly unlikely the primary driving force behind his suit is to collect $150 million (seems unlikely he would ever see this anyway).

[baudib]

am I allowed to link to 2+2 here? if not delete.

long but worth read + funny

Two Plus Two Poker Forums - View Single Post - Phil Ivey Releases Statement

[rong]

If all the grinders move from fp to stars, and the fish prob don't have a clue and a proportion of them continue playing, doesn't that benefit me as the fish to reg ratio moves on my favour.

[bikes]

If all the grinders move from fp to stars, and the fish prob don't have a clue and a proportion of them continue playing, doesn't that benefit me as the fish to reg ratio moves on my favour.

this is the same reason scumbags continued to play on UB

[Nakamura]

I don't understand why he would make the grandiose gesture of withdrawing from the WSOP other than to make it clear that he stood in solidarity with the unpaid American players.

His roll is in FTP

He is probably contracted to wear FTP poker gear at all live events. Probably wants to distance himself for the law suit. While he might want everyone to believe it's in solidarity, it wouldn't look good in court if he's biting the hand he's eating from.

[baudib]

no one is wearing FTP gear except Gus.

[Shotglass]

agree with both of you 100%

+1

Originally posted by OngBonga
I, too, will refuse to play in this year's WSOP in support of FTP players.

I'm with ya, Ong..respect! Anyone else wanna join in the boycott?!?!

[BennyLaRue]

How does his actions help anyone with money on FTP? I'd argue that the opposite is true and def wouldn't call him a hero because of this at all.

Is he footing the legal bill?

Pretty damn heroic, if so.

[andy-akb]

In short, this is good for ivey, bad for us. Andrew Robl's post [http://andrewrobl.com/blog/2011/06/0...-non-payment/] explains why. Basically FT is having trouble paying, but is trying to get funding to cover the difference and this statement/lawsuit from the most famous pro they have cant help encourage investors

[Duffryn]

Tiltware's response to Phil Ivey's lawsuit ".......Phil Ivey’s meritless lawsuit is about helping just one player – himself........". Such a public spat between FT and its top player representative is not helping the situation in any way.

[givememyleg]

I thought this was interesting - Legal Analysis of Ivey v. Tiltware - Poker News - News, Views and Gossip

[boost]

Is anyone else looking forward to Lederer using "uppity" in reference to Ivey and his remarks regarding ftp?

[wallethead]

Is anyone else looking forward to Lederer using "uppity" in reference to Ivey and his remarks regarding ftp?

Oh My God. I don't doubt he's thinking this, but God help him if he actually says it. What he will probably do is remain silent.

On Phil's action:

I was just talking to a friend of mine the day before his announcement and expressing my desire to see Pros sit out the wsop in solidarity with American players. He responded that he didn't think that was their responsibility, they had too much to lose, etc...He even mentioned Phil in particular as having big, big bets on the wsop...

I maintained that it was a poke in our eyes to have to see FTP badges on players, while FTP has our money and that if a single one of them had any integrity or even brains they would realize that.

Phil has both.

I've always liked they guy and I don't care if his lawsuit supposedly hurts our chances of getting our money back...I suspect they will only use it as an excuse anyway, as they've had plenty of time to start the repayment process...who says it has to be all at once...dribble it back if you have to. They don't intend to pay us back, IMO, and never have.

Bravo Phil Ivey!

[Shotglass]

Is anyone else looking forward to Lederer using "uppity" in reference to Ivey and his remarks regarding ftp?

Not really, but I am wondering how much Tom Dwann is starting to sweat since he guaranteed something like $1M that US players would get there $$$$ returned to them.

[lolzzz_321]

Not Afraid by SrslySirius, inspired by Daniel Negreanu | Quadjacks | Poker Radio | Poker Videos

[philly and the phanatics]

hahah isnt that grnydrowave?

[lolzzz_321]

Yep