Is Grad School Really Worth It?

[BooG690]

So I'm at that point in my life where I have to figure out WTF to do for moneyz. Med school is my #1 option...but is it really worth it? I just can't get over the idea of going to school for eight more years and then being in debt for a shitload more years. Also, I'd be getting paid in fucking peanuts until I am done with my internship. Does anybody feel the same? I found a great blogpost here on this:

http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2009/0...h-grad-school/

[mrhappy333]

yes and no, it all depends

[Illfavor]

Yea this is really dependent on a shit-ton of factors. I'm entering grad school in the fall of 2010 so hit me up in the IRC if you want to discuss it some.

[Ash256]

What do you actually want to do with your life?

[OP]

I worked an internship while getting my Masters and it sucked pretty bad having to ration basic life necessities like gas and food because of funds. I hated it but it passed and now I'm personally salaried at double the average American household income.(Not bragging just giving a personal example of how it can benefit) So money wise, your edge in the job market and sense of accomplishment makes grad school seriously long term +EV.

Yeah yeah, it's just a piece of paper but so is a concert ticket and most currencies. Some things you just can't do without "a piece of paper"

[Warpe]

Yes, unless you're like my buddy who got his doctorate in anthropology, didn't graduate until he was 35 or something and was unemployed for a period of like 5 years

[flomo]

I just can't get over the idea of going to school for eight more years and then being in debt for a shitload more years.

Also, I'd be getting paid in fucking peanuts until I am done with my internship.

8 more years?, so you are currently in med school?

when you are done, they just triple the amount of fuckning peanuts.

all this is dependent on what kind of doc you become

summary
medicine is for people who love it, other than that it blows

[swiggidy]

It depends on your major. Fine Arts, fuck a masters. I got my masters in engineering, stayed an extra year just because I felt like it and I'm still going to come out so far a head long term.

PhD isn't a pyramid scheme. If you're going to school to become a professor it's for the life style. Don't forget the additional benefits besides just $$.

[boost]

dont go to med school for the money imo. If you really think becoming a M.D. is for you, then go for it and Im sure youll do fine money wise, otherwise do something else.

[a500lbgorilla]

Yea this is really dependent on a shit-ton of factors. I'm entering grad school in the fall of 2010 so hit me up in the IRC if you want to discuss it some.

Where? What are you doing?

[Jason]

If you want to be a doctor, you should be a doctor. Love what you do and do what you love. It's much harder to go back to school when you've been out for a while because you get used to making money and you get out of the habit of going to class and doing homework.

As for being in debt, you want to pay for as much as you can out of pocket up front. Then, as Dave Ramsey would say, live off rice and beans and beans and rice when you're a doctor until that debt is paid off. You should be making enough money to pay it down relatively quickly if you don't try to live what most people would consider the the lifestyle of a doctor. Don't buy a new car or an expensive car. Don't buy a big house. Don't buy expensive toys. If you make $90,000 per year, pocket $50,000 per year to pay off your debt, and live like you're only making $40,000.

[Illfavor]

Yea this is really dependent on a shit-ton of factors. I'm entering grad school in the fall of 2010 so hit me up in the IRC if you want to discuss it some.

Where? What are you doing?

I'm a classical double bassist, and will probably end up at the University of North Texas or the University of Michigan. I'm not sure why swiggidy thinks people the in the Fine Arts don't need to go to graduate school...It's just as dependent on a wide variety of factors as everything else is, and to give a blanket statement about it in this career field is incorrect imo.

[Micro2Macro]

If you're not sure you want to be a doctor, that's probably a sign you shouldn't go become one. I feel like that's one of the careers where you really need to know you want it - but that's just my opinion.

[bigred]

I'll cough for you sir.

[daven]

dude, only go to med school if you want to be a medical doctor.
Grad school if there is something that interests you enough that it won't matter if you're broke another year.

End of the day you'll be able to eat regardless. How old are you anyway? don't stress it... get a working holiday visa somewhere and see what happens. Or something.

[BooG690]

Damn guys. Great answers.

I'm 22-years old. I've "wanted to be a doctor" my whole life...but as I've gotten older, I see it was just my mom brainwashing me. I mean, I enjoy the field and such...but not so much that I would sacrifice my "best years" when I can travel and such. I don't really care about the money...I would live just fine on an average salary.

In the end, I'm probably going to choose against going to medical school. I appreciate all the input!

[flomo]

an MBA from a great school is the way to go

something like University of Chicago

[Ragnar4]

ez game.
Take the amount grad school will cost you
ask yourself will I earn that money back in "extra funds" in X years.

X is whatever number of years you think you wouldn't be super pissed at.

Also consider if you can do the job you want to do without that, so job happiness will increase that number X.

If the answer is yes.. do eet.

If the anser is no... don't do eet

If the answer is I don't know, drink a beer and start over.

[BooG690]

OK...so rather than start a whole new topic, I'm going to keep this going.

As you all know, I'm a lost soul. Medical school is an option, but eight more years of schooling and decades of debt sounds pretty horrible imo. I love biology (especially anatomy), physics, and chemistry, but I'm so unsure about medicine that it scares me. Also, I hate the way the medical school is expensive as shit and takes forever here in the USA.

So obviously, I'm still trying to find my niche. I love maths...so I was thinking ACTUARY! I don't have to go to graduate school and the reward is pretty nice. Also, after my first examination, I can get an internship and learn more about the occupation. I'm confident I'd be able to pass the exam after 2+ months of studying. *shrugs* Who knows if this'll stick? Anybody have any experience as an actuary? Comments? Questions?

[flomo]

were thinking of doing a certain field in medicine?

have you taken the MCAT?

sorry, i know nothing about actuary.

[BooG690]

Yes, I've taken my MCAT. I got a 31. I am thinking of taking it again. As for the field, not sure as of yet.

[Micro2Macro]

MBA > med school

this is coming from someone who's taking Commerce though...

you may kill yourself as an actuary, though I can't be sure. I know David Sklansky used to be one until he walked out one day to gamble for a living.

[kingnat]

Actuaries make good money and I imagine it would be a great job for someone who can do math. If I had to do everything again, I'd probably would. I went to grad school in physics... it sucks balls. I am now a prof at a research intensive University, so I only teach one class per semester. The pay isn't all that great considering I'm 31, but the benefits are pretty solid particularly retirement and health-care so maybe it all balances out in the end.

I think the above are correct when it comes to money, getting a non-thesis Masters in Engineering is so ldo. The jump in salary you achieve is tremendous, plus it's only two years of hard stuff and if you can find a good program/adivsor you could actually learn a lot of cool stuff. MBA is also ldo, for shipping the monies. Pay for the school name in that case, from everything I've heard it's totally worth it.

And I agree with swig, that getting a master's in fine arts isn't likely to increase you earning potential in and of itself... unless you want to teach at a community college or some other position of which I'm unaware. It's like getting a Master's degree in Physics... whoop-dee-poop.

And for the really cereal question... Have you taken the MCATDOG?

[daven]

sounds like you're focusing on money and being an 'insert profession here'
dude, you're 22.

re the MBA comments - i hate seeing MBA on a cv when it comes straight after school and with no work experience. I enjoy binning MBA cvs and instead interviewing people able to do the job and maybe even able to handle being managed... don't get to do that now though!

I love biology (especially anatomy), physics, and chemistry, but I'm so unsure about medicine that it scares me. Also, I hate the way the medical school is expensive as shit and takes forever here in the USA.

do a masters in something bio? spend a day or two shadowing a physiotherapist and see if you like their job? have a beer?

So obviously, I'm still trying to find my niche. I love maths...so I was thinking ACTUARY! I don't have to go to graduate school and the reward is pretty nice. Also, after my first examination, I can get an internship and learn more about the occupation. I'm confident I'd be able to pass the exam after 2+ months of studying.

read about what actuaries actually do. Basically calculate risk, play with numbers, get pretty bored, earn a bunch of money, buy a nice house and trophy wife, work for the rest of their life keeping the trophy happy. It's something I looked at - for about five minutes - freshly armed with a degree in math way back when

[Micro2Macro]

If you're interested in chemistry etc, let me know if you're interested in developing a brewing company.

[BooG690]

If you're interested in chemistry etc, let me know if you're interested in developing a brewing company.

I despised chemistry...I was great at it, but it's a fucking horrible subject.

Anywho, I feel I shall update anyone who cared enough to read about my little debacle.

So I finally told mom dukes that becoming a doctor is not gonna happen. I got a speech from her how that's probably the only secure job, that I always wanted to be a doctor, and there's no reason NOT to be a doctor. I guess she doesn't understand that I just don't want to go through all the bullshit.

Then, of course, my brother (whom I REALLY don't get along with) chooses to chime in with: "how much do you expect to make a year?," "money is the key to happiness," "You really don't care if you live wealthy when you grow up?" As a background, my brother is probably the most money-obsessed person I know. Every other time I see his computer, he is looking at a new watch or car. So, yeah, he gave me that whole thing.

I'm going to be going to schools tomorrow to check out their computer science departments and get myself enrolled for winter/spring of 2010. I wish I didn't waste four years of my life getting an Economics degree...but whatever. It happens though. A few in the IRC helped out with the whole "it's never too late," which is true I guess. My brother began to tilt me about the computer science thing saying I won't be making any money and that $80K/yr is nothing...which he doesn't understand that I DON'T CARE. FUCK.

Anyway, that's pretty much it. I'm kinda pumped to be returning to school for something I'm rather interested in. I kicked ass at Java in high school. I'll probably update this whole thing tomorrow. Later guys...and grazie for the support.

[flomo]

i agree with not being a doctor.(i know a metric shit ton of doctors<- this qualifies me as a know-it all about doctors)

MBA from a great school is the answer. or do something you love

my comp has been extra gay and couldn't post as much as usual.

[Micro2Macro]

lol @ even estimating a salary. If you get to know the right people/right business etc. 80k/year could be your bonus.

Tell your bro to go jerk off and congrats on finally deciding what you really want to do and DOING IT. So many people figure it out but do something else because other people tell them to. Then they end up hating life and potentially killing themself or someone else.

Good job manning up and doing what's best for you. Your family will get over it, and you're on track to enjoying your life.

[euphoricism]

My criminal justice degree got me exactly nowhere. I make $11/hour. Granted my job is awesome, but whatever, there's no future here. I've pretty much topped out the salary for private security unless I plan on staying with this company for a few years and hoping they promote me.. but meh.

I'm thinking I'll be going back soon for a degree in electrical engineering. It's an interesting field that I enjoy learning about, it combines my computer nerdiness with my propensity to take shit apart and make stuff.

I'll probably be moving back in with my parents while I do it. Yay.

[a500lbgorilla]

I have two parents with masters degrees in EE. No shortage of work for people of their qualifications.

[wufwugy]

Computer science is fantastic. It opens up SOOOO many doors, pretty much every big field employs computer scientists.

What I recommend, however, is to figure out what you want to do for a living and where you wanna work, not what you want to get a degree in. An example of why this is the right approach can be found in euphos criminal justice degree. Basically, criminal justice is worthless, but you wouldn't know it since it only makes sense that criminal fields should care about criminal degrees. Fields that involve criminal justice, however, much prefer people with accounting, physics, law, etc degrees than pointless criminal justice degrees

[mixchange]

Do not get an MBA right now (to anyone reading). Google didn't even get a LIST of Stanford's MBA grads for potential hire. No interest this year.

MBA is crowded, they don't teach many applicable business skills, and there are going to be a fuckload of them in 2 years as everyone goes back to school during the 'depression'

[euphoricism]

Fields that involve criminal justice, however, much prefer people with accounting, physics, law, etc degrees than pointless criminal justice degrees

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

[euphoricism]

Fields that involve criminal justice, however, much prefer people with accounting, physics, law, etc degrees than pointless criminal justice degrees

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

YOU FUCKING HEAR THIS STAX? GET THE HELL OUT OF CJ NOW

[BennyLaRue]

Computer science is fantastic. It opens up SOOOO many doors, pretty much every big field employs computer scientists.

I was in a job hiring people for a Fortune 500 company for a while so I can tell you that while "every big field" does employ people with computer science degrees, don't take this advice. The supply of people with undergrad and graduate computer science degrees far exceeds the demand. Competition is absolutely brutal, requiring constant education after school to keep stay on the leading edge. Programming jobs would be absolutely not possible unless you're naturally into programming already, for you'll be vying for jobs against kids in basements who drink this stuff in without thought. The non-programming side of things is full of failed programmers as well as engineers, who probably naturally fit the need for project management skills. Trust me, unless you love it, don't go this route.

[BennyLaRue]

Do not get an MBA right now (to anyone reading). Google didn't even get a LIST of Stanford's MBA grads for potential hire. No interest this year.

MBA is crowded, they don't teach many applicable business skills, and there are going to be a fuckload of them in 2 years as everyone goes back to school during the 'depression'

Also this.

Boog, if you love math and want to go back to school to be an actuary, do it and be an actuary. There are lots of alternate routes people with math degrees can go, chief among them finance, statistics, government (go, go expanding socialist big gov't!) or teaching. Or, if you have an econ degree and love math, focus on getting a job in the pure econ side of things right now and not in business. Advance through experience and practical skills rather than a degree...it's much more practical in this environment as companies want to take advantage of internal employees rather than take a risk on ppl off the street.

Or, if you just threw that comment out there but don't really see a future in either math or econ, go to your career services department on campus and figure out fields in demand that you might be interested in. I can guarantee that 80%-90% of the guys in this forum are either still in school themselves or hate the fuck out of what they do and will only advise you to do what they wished they did. Take all this advice with a grain of salt and get some good data on what the right path for you is.

[Jason]

I'll go a step further and say that your salary isn't NEARLY as important as how you deal with money. If you don't have good bankroll management in real life, you will live from pay check to pay check and be broke like most Americans. Here's a few fun facts:

• 65 percent of Lotto winners go bankrupt in less than 15 years.
• 8 out of 10 former NFL players go bankrupt or nearly broke within 2 years of leaving the league.

Your income IS your best wealth building tool, but it's not nearly as important as living within your means, NOT borrowing money, NOT using credit cards, sacrificing, and saving money. I highly recommend Dave Ramsey and his Total Money Makeover program. I'm on step 6: "paying off the house". I hope to have it paid off somewhere in the next 3 to 5 years which would be less than 11 years since I bought it. With no house payments, it gets easy to pile up cash.

Not to hijack this thread, but if anyone is interested, we should start a real life, not poker, bankroll management thread for ideas on building wealth and saving money.

[BennyLaRue]

Not to hijack this thread, but if anyone is interested, we should start a real life, not poker, bankroll management thread for ideas on building wealth and saving money.

Gogogogogogo! School does a shit job preparing people for this aspect of life and parents are often useless as well. Just be sure to stick asterisks and OFFICIAL in the title.

[Sasquach991]

When I was young, I wanted to be a doctor.
When I graduated high school, I wanted to be a doctor.
When I started college, I wanted to be a doctor.

When I realized I liked taking shit apart all my life, I decided to become an engineer.
When I saw how unusual electrical engineering was, I decided to do that.

Now I get paid to take (electrical) shit apart. But then I have to put it back together.
Note: I took apart an electric can opener when I was about 15. Bad idea

You're only 22. Start on a path. After a while, if you don't like the path, then change it.

[Galapogos]

Benny being all serious and throwing out quality advice really weirded me out for a second there.

[BennyLaRue]

Benny being all serious and throwing out quality advice really weirded me out for a second there.

It happens like, 5% of the time. But it's a quality 5%.

[BooG690]

Benny being all serious and throwing out quality advice really weirded me out for a second there.

Yeah, I was a little bugged out taking advice from a man with Tom Selleck as his avatar...no matter how handsome Tom Selleck is.

LOL JK Benny. I appreciate all the help.

[BennyLaRue]

Yeah, I was a little bugged out taking advice from a man with Tom Selleck as his avatar...no matter how handsome Tom Selleck is.

I don't care what y'all say, dude is dreamy.