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kingnat
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10-20-2008, 02:13 PM
Post subject: Investing Question
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 827
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So... i have a small chunk of money that sits on INGdirect collecting shitty interest. With the market at what is very likely to be near the bottom of this downswong. I want to throw some of that into the market for the boomswitch.
I have zero experience and next to zero knowledge... it strikes me that I could sign up with sharebuilder.com that is associated with ingdirect. It states that with no initial or monthly fee, and I can make a "trade" for $10. What I'd like to do is take a few thousand, and buy something that has a decent chance of upswinging over the next year or two.
Can I just buy shares in the "dow jones" in general? This is really my only idea my ill-informed brain can think of.... thanks for the help!!
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So you click their picture and then you get their money?
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Play for FREE and practice your game at...
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Dow Diamonds (Amex: DIA) exchanged traded fund.
http://finance.google.com/finance?cl...q=AMEX:grin:IA
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kingnat
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 827
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
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"The Trust seeks to provide investment results that, before expenses, generally corresponds to the price and yield performance of the component stocks of the DJIA."
Sounds good... does my plan sound ok??... i hate feeling so inept.... typically that only happens at the tables.. and in all your moms' beds.
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So you click their picture and then you get their money?
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kingnat
"The Trust seeks to provide investment results that, before expenses, generally corresponds to the price and yield performance of the component stocks of the DJIA."
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^^^^ most important consideration. Your other option is an S&P 50 index but I'd tend not to go there now because it's distorted by market capitalization (one large company tanking will drag the rest down).
DIA top holdings:
International Business Mach 8.17%
Exxon Mobil Corp 6.12%
Johnson & Johnson 5.64%
Chevron Corp New 5.61%
Procter & Gamble Co 5.56%
3M Co 5.08%
Mcdonalds Corp 4.84%
Wal Mart Stores Inc 4.84%
United Technologies Corp 4.56%
Boeing Co 4.01%
Good plan. Some analysts are starting to say we hit the bottom on Oct 10. They could be wrong of course, but I'd gogogogogo.
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kingnat
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 827
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Cool man... I really appreciate your help. The whole sharebuilder thing seems like a pretty solid deal... with only $10 per trade.. and no monthly, or sign-up fee. Does that sound reasonable? Are there other fees, or concerns that are likely to pop up that are like "dumb-shit obvious" to investors that I am unaware of... I am going to have to pay taxes on the dividends that I earn from my investments, right?
Thanks!
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So you click their picture and then you get their money?
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kingnat
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 827
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I googled sharebuilder promotion.. and found a $50 deal promotion from some affiliate. Should I have any reservations about using this... like they might be able to see my hole cards er something.
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So you click their picture and then you get their money?
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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open an IRA if you don't have one
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kingnat
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 827
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i have a Roth IRA actually.... I also have a 2.5x matching deal at my place of employment up to a certain percentage of my salary (which I have maxed out).
I've thought of putting money in the Roth for this, but we opened our Roths through some guy at a bank in a town we used to live in where we no longer have money... Do I still need to go through him? Where does my Roth exist? Can I move it to this Sharebuilder.com thing?? Gah... i hate my stupidity.
I know that one can withdraw $10k per person from your Roth IRA tax free for the purchase of a new home... So I guess I could try going that route, with this purchase. But I'd like to buy this "DAI" stock rather than the mutual funds that we currently hold in our Roths...
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So you click their picture and then you get their money?
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kingnat
I googled sharebuilder promotion.. and found a $50 deal promotion from some affiliate. Should I have any reservations about using this... like they might be able to see my hole cards er something.
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make sure this doesnt void any rakeback deals.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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BennyLaRue
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 646
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Your Roth is just an account. You can purchase ETFs like DAI in your Roth.
In your last paragraph, are you saying you don't own a home? If not, and you're not buying for a while (> 1 year), putting the money in your IRA is a good option.
If you don't own a home and you want that money for a downpayment within the next year, I wouldn't invest it. You're not too risk tolerant at this point since you need the money soon. Keep it in the shitty ING acct.
If you DO own a home, what's the interest in your mortgage and can you put a lump sum down on it? Paying down your mortgage instead of investment isn't very sexy but is really practical since it is a guaranteed return (or rather, interest payment avoidance).
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kingnat
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 827
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BennyLaRue
Your Roth is just an account. You can purchase ETFs like DAI in your Roth.
In your last paragraph, are you saying you don't own a home? If not, and you're not buying for a while (> 1 year), putting the money in your IRA is a good option.
If you don't own a home and you want that money for a downpayment within the next year, I wouldn't invest it. You're not too risk tolerant at this point since you need the money soon. Keep it in the shitty ING acct.
If you DO own a home, what's the interest in your mortgage and can you put a lump sum down on it? Paying down your mortgage instead of investment isn't very sexy but is really practical since it is a guaranteed return (or rather, interest payment avoidance).
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Thanks for the help Benny. I don't own a home, and won't purchase one until >1 year from now... I suppose I should just call the guy that set up my Roth account and figure out how I can get control of it I guess.... A person is only allowed one Roth-IRA right?... Like i couldn't open a Roth-IRA with sharebuilder could I? Or could I, like I mentioned early, could I move my Roth to sharebuilder?
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So you click their picture and then you get their money?
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DaHorror
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 616
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One thing to seriously consider before putting money into any investment that is not risk-free to loss is:
Can you stomach losing 25% or so of the value of your investment in the short term, even if you know that over the long haul it will make money?
Some people just can't stand to drop very much in their portfolios...thus the stock market can be an extremely painful investment for them. Particularly in a bear market with extemely wild swings both up and down.
And in all honesty, we probably aren't out of the woods yet - even lower lows are still a possibility with this market, even if we race up a good bit over the next few months.
Another thing to be aware of is your timeframe - are you looking to invest for 3 months? 1 year? 3 years+?
That helps to determine how much downside risk you can handle.
I'm not a financial advisor ... but I know, as well I'm sure many around here do, how painful the losses sustained over the last month or so have been ... makes you feel sick to your stomach - even if your timeframe is 15 years or more.
The buy low part seems pretty straightforward...not panic-selling when it goes lower is pretty hard, and selling high instead of holding indefinitely is hard as well.
Sometimes you don't know how sick you'll feel with the losses until they actually happen...then you learn a lot about yourself through the experience.
Also - I'm not suggesing that it's not, generally speaking, a decent time to throw some money into the markets - I don't intend to speak one way or the other about that. I'm only saying to think about your general plan, and how you'll feel if it goes against you so that you can make the best decision for you personally.
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2_Thumbs_Up
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 271
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Invest in pitchforks. Demand will sky-rocket within a year or so.
Seriously though, what are you basing that the market is near it's bottom on? Stocks are just reflecting what's happening in the rest of the economy. Unless you see any signs of company profits increasing, foreclosures decreasing, unemplyment going down and credit loosening up I'd be very wary of investing in the stock market right now.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by 2_Thumbs_Up
Unless you see any signs of company profits increasing, foreclosures decreasing, unemplyment going down and credit loosening up I'd be very wary of investing in the stock market right now.
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^^^^ fail.
Markets generally recover well before good news starts to appear about the economy.
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Originally Posted by Warren Buffett
Let me be clear on one point: I can’t predict the short-term movements of the stock market. I haven’t the faintest idea as to whether stocks will be higher or lower a month — or a year — from now. What is likely, however, is that the market will move higher, perhaps substantially so, well before either sentiment or the economy turns up. So if you wait for the robins, spring will be over.
A little history here: During the Depression, the Dow hit its low, 41, on July 8, 1932. Economic conditions, though, kept deteriorating until Franklin D. Roosevelt took office in March 1933. By that time, the market had already advanced 30 percent. Or think back to the early days of World War II, when things were going badly for the United States in Europe and the Pacific. The market hit bottom in April 1942, well before Allied fortunes turned. Again, in the early 1980s, the time to buy stocks was when inflation raged and the economy was in the tank. In short, bad news is an investor’s best friend. It lets you buy a slice of America’s future at a marked-down price. |
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/17/op...uffett.html?em
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2_Thumbs_Up
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 271
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
^^^^ fail.
Markets generally recover well before good news starts to appear about the economy.
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I don't expect a whole lot of good news though. And for the comparison with the great depression we're still in 1929, not in 1932.
Some quotes from the GD:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials...our062001.html
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Something every investor should be aware of:
http://www.creatingwealth.co.nz/pdf_...30_reasons.pdf
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allabout
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: VA USA
Posts: 277
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kingnat
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BennyLaRue
Your Roth is just an account. You can purchase ETFs like DAI in your Roth.
In your last paragraph, are you saying you don't own a home? If not, and you're not buying for a while (> 1 year), putting the money in your IRA is a good option.
If you don't own a home and you want that money for a downpayment within the next year, I wouldn't invest it. You're not too risk tolerant at this point since you need the money soon. Keep it in the shitty ING acct.
If you DO own a home, what's the interest in your mortgage and can you put a lump sum down on it? Paying down your mortgage instead of investment isn't very sexy but is really practical since it is a guaranteed return (or rather, interest payment avoidance).
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Thanks for the help Benny. I don't own a home, and won't purchase one until >1 year from now... I suppose I should just call the guy that set up my Roth account and figure out how I can get control of it I guess.... A person is only allowed one Roth-IRA right?... Like i couldn't open a Roth-IRA with sharebuilder could I? Or could I, like I mentioned early, could I move my Roth to sharebuilder? |
You can open as many Roths as you want, but you can only invest up to the max in all of them combined in one year. Also, you could be paying an annual fee type thing for nothing if you have multiple accounts. You can most likely transfer you're IRA from the old place to sharebuilder easily through an e-transfer without having to contact your old advisor if you want. I'm not familiar w/sharebuilder, but if its similar to E-Trade then its very easy to do. If not there are other ways to do it. I used to be a financial advisor so I know a lot of companies charge an annual fee, but a lot of computer based companies don't, so see what sharebuilder's policy is. If it costs money, look elsewhere.
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"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Elmer Letterman
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by 2_Thumbs_Up
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
^^^^ fail.
Markets generally recover well before good news starts to appear about the economy.
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I don't expect a whole lot of good news though. And for the comparison with the great depression we're still in 1929, not in 1932.
Some quotes from the GD:
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials...our062001.html |
This ain't the Great Depression. A recession, yeah, but this isn't the 1930s.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
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Closed +6.24% today.
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2_Thumbs_Up
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 271
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
Closed +6.24% today.
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The four biggest one day gains ever was during the great depression.
It does seem like we've hit a temporary bottom though. It's very possible to make some money on short term volatility right now but it's still a long-term bear market.
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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buffet is so awesome. my my investment plan consists of me buying 1 shares of berkshire every month. i hope he lives for a long time.
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bjsaust
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10-20-2008, 10:21 PM
Post subject: Re: Investing Quesion
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#22 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kingnat
So... i have a small chunk of money that sits on INGdirect collecting shitty interest. With the market at what is very likely to be near the bottom of this downswong. I want to throw some of that into the market for the boomswitch.
I have zero experience and next to zero knowledge...
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The irony is staggering.
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Just playing to improve.
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Smacktard
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: KC
Posts: 68
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I'd wait to hear some advice from LuckySlevin on this. He's a disciplined guy that knows his shit when it comes to money.
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BennyLaRue
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 646
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Smacktard
I'd wait to hear some advice from LuckySlevin on this. He's a disciplined guy that knows his shit when it comes to money.
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What's the traditional investing equivalent to "I have bottom pair and a backdoor quad draw. I call all in."?
Hmmm...probably mining start-ups.
LuckySlevin sez: Invest in mining start-ups. Better yet, short sell em.
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kingnat
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 827
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by allabout
You can open as many Roths as you want, but you can only invest up to the max in all of them combined in one year. Also, you could be paying an annual fee type thing for nothing if you have multiple accounts. You can most likely transfer you're IRA from the old place to sharebuilder easily through an e-transfer without having to contact your old advisor if you want. I'm not familiar w/sharebuilder, but if its similar to E-Trade then its very easy to do. If not there are other ways to do it. I used to be a financial advisor so I know a lot of companies charge an annual fee, but a lot of computer based companies don't, so see what sharebuilder's policy is. If it costs money, look elsewhere.
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Awesome.. TKS allabout. I actually sent an email to the guy that set up our account before. Hopefully he's not a douche about moving it... we'll see. I'm going to sign up for a new Roth on Sharebuilder I think and buy me some mufugging stacks!!
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So you click their picture and then you get their money?
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
buffet is so awesome. my my investment plan consists of me buying 1 shares of berkshire every month. i hope he lives for a long time.
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A shares? That would be sooooo livin.
I digress, but what the hell. . . If I invested in BRK.A, I would sure hope that the old bastard lives awhile. I don't want to be in that stock on the day Buffet dies. I guess a good money making idea would be to follow him around and massively short the stock when you see him keel over.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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allabout
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: VA USA
Posts: 277
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silly String
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gabe
buffet is so awesome. my my investment plan consists of me buying 1 shares of berkshire every month. i hope he lives for a long time.
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A shares? That would be sooooo livin.
I digress, but what the hell. . . If I invested in BRK.A, I would sure hope that the old bastard lives awhile. I don't want to be in that stock on the day Buffet dies. I guess a good money making idea would be to follow him around and massively short the stock when you see him keel over. |
Just curious if anyone has done any research or heard anything on this, but what would happen to his company/these shares if he was named on Obama's cabinet if Obama was elected. Like I thought I heard somewhere that Buffet and Obama are pretty close and Obama said he'd make a good secretary of the treasury or something like that. In that position you can't own any part of a publicly traded company, isn't that right? Not sure, but could be interesting.
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"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." - Elmer Letterman
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kingnat
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 827
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Nearly two years to the date.... SHIP!
[x] investment paid off
[ ] invested enough manies to make any difference
Should I just go ahead and pull these now? or continue to let it ride?
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So you click their picture and then you get their money?
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kingnat
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 827
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BTW I called this account: "Economy UPSWONG"
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So you click their picture and then you get their money?
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kingnat
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpe
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Thanks Warpe!
Being patient for another 18 months was probably a good idea. I don't see significant upswings on the horizon, so it's getting sold today. Thanks FTR!
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So you click their picture and then you get their money?
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kiwiMark
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Nu Zuland bru
Posts: 939
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Some lucky grad student's getting a niiiice dinner this friday night
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwiMark
Some hot grad student's getting a niiiice dinner this friday night
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fyp
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LOL OPERATIONS
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingnat
Thanks Warpe!
Being patient for another 18 months was probably a good idea. I don't see significant upswings on the horizon, so it's getting sold today. Thanks FTR! |
Nice. Now. did anybody buy Apple when I told them to?
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
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do you really need the $900 and change profit? if so cool, sell
if not then you are probably better off dollar cost averaging a given amount annually into that index fund and not even consider selling it till you are near death or retirement or can buy an island or something. i think the biggest mistake amateur investors make is just taking quick profit and not having any strategy. i know it seems like u are doing this for fun which is cool but you could always decide to make your portfolio your heart surgery fund when you retire or something like that.
don't take this as professional advice but if anything sell target then buy more dow.
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpe
Nice. Now. did anybody buy Apple when I told them to?
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Yep 
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kingnat
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
do you really need the $900 and change profit? if so cool, sell
if not then you are probably better off dollar cost averaging a given amount annually into that index fund and not even consider selling it till you are near death or retirement or can buy an island or something. i think the biggest mistake amateur investors make is just taking quick profit and not having any strategy. i know it seems like u are doing this for fun which is cool but you could always decide to make your portfolio your heart surgery fund when you retire or something like that.
don't take this as professional advice but if anything sell target then buy more dow.
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Well this isn't exactly quick profits, I have a pretty solid retirement plan through work and such. Life changes find me in need of a car. So it makes sense to liquidate this little pocket of fun money. Thanks for the advice though!
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So you click their picture and then you get their money?
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