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vqc
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03-27-2008, 07:47 AM
Post subject: Identifying Cults
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,427
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interesting old article about identifying cults.
http://www.straightblastgym.com/bite.htm
I found it interesting because I was reading another thread about global warming and one participant stated that he had a lot of issues trusting global warming proponents (i.e. Gore).
Quote: "When Al Gore inisted that "the debate is over", and that everyone needed to stop disagreeing with him, or when a columnist declared that "global warming deniers are now on a par with Holocaust deniers", trying to undercut anyone who disagrees by pinning a scarlet letter on their chest, your eyebrows should have raised."
That made me think about identifying cults and thus the BITE method.
No, the purpose of this thread is not to debate the merits of global warming.
With the BITE method in the back of my head, a LOT of things are cultish.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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you cant be super super serial about not wanting to debate global warming????
kinda in the same vein....
our best friend when it comes to learning about and identifying truths and fallacies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_fallacies couple that and all its links with this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method and all its links and we're in the best position to understanding how to think.
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vqc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,427
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i hate to derail the thread by the 3rd post (by me no less) but this is an awesome website/podcast
http://www.theskepticsguide.org/
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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lol awesome
www.skepdic.com i found this very excellent for succinct excerpts on a plethora of relevant topics.
and of course penn and tellers bullshit. good for a laugh even when they're not totally right
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
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RE: Global Warming
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/TECH/03/...ref=newssearch
http://www.thewe.cc/weplanet/news/glaciers_melting.htm
http://whyfiles.org/shorties/073glacier_melt/2.html
Of course the earth isn't warmin' up, its all invented. Invented, I tell ya!
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vqc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,427
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
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I guess a better focus for discussion is, do you think that Global Warming proponents are propagating their theories in a manner that is cult like (as per BITE)? Note that this is entirely SEPARATE from whether or not Global Warming is valid.
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pgil
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
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meh, I read that and most of it didn't really seem to relate to the propagation of global warming theories. BTW, I believe that the correct term is climate change, as it is not always a warming.
There is little to no behaviour control, as far as I know there is little to no information control as outlined in BITE, there is also no centralized leader some of the thought control ideas do not apply. Also related to thought control, there are no rituals, or chants, etc. There also seems to be very little attempt at emotional controls.
I am of course only talking about legitimate proponents of legitimate climate change theories here. We must be certain that we don't lump in any weirdo who claims that the earth is boiling with all of the actual scientifically based theory regarding this issue.
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"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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So are we assuming that all cults are bad? OR are saying the something isnt a cult unless it is harmful?
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItDrew
It's important to have your own opinion and there is nothing wrong with not swaying from that opinion.
What is more important, is not shutting the doors on different ideas/opinions from others. It is necessary to continue dialog and information exchange between not only those who you agree with, but also the opposition.
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boost
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 706
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I think the way gw proponents might appear to be a sort of cult like, however I think its just a natural reaction to the disturbing excuse for scientific research that the other side puts forth. The opposing side regurgitates complete nonsense in a nonchalant way that clearly makes the proponents look like fanatics when they get fiery and refute this complete nonsense.
The rightwing stance was engineered to look like the reasonable middle ground. Its an easy image to maintain when the other side is pretty much saying the world is ending unelss we change. However the claims against global warming are more akin to intelligent design than real science.
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vqc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,427
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
So are we assuming that all cults are bad? OR are saying the something isnt a cult unless it is harmful?
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Thats a good question, are all cults bad?
I think that (1) anything is good as long as you go to it willingly. But (2) the problem with cults is that you never know if someone joined it truly of their own free will, or if they got suckered into it. (3) I would say that the problem with cults (as defined by BITE) is that they don't allow for freedom of thought/will, which, I would argue, would be a problem regardless of how "good intentioned" the cult is.
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mrhappy333
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 1,078
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cult= Jehovah's Witnesses
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3 3 3 I'm only half evil.
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vqc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,427
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by boost
However the claims against global warming are more akin to intelligent design than real science.
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How are claims against gw more akin to ID than real science (i mean i can see why but i would like to hear wat u think)?
I think that proponents of ID have put up wayyyy crappier scientific evidence and have way more fake degrees than opponents of gw.
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vqc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,427
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mrhappy333
cult= Jehovah's Witnesses
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i think most religions ride the line pretty damn closely
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I think most cults are probably pretty fucked up but there are a lot you don't hear about which are not at all.
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vqc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,427
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I think most cults are probably pretty fucked up but there are a lot you don't hear about which are not at all.
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are they "not bad" because they aren't promoting a bad goal?
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by vqc
Quote:
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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
I think most cults are probably pretty fucked up but there are a lot you don't hear about which are not at all.
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are they "not bad" because they aren't promoting a bad goal? |
They aren't bad because they don't hurt anyone nor do they try to mind control you. If you have a choice whether or not to be a part of it its fine by my standards.
I'm probably not covering every angle up and im not standing by my definition of a "bad" cult by any means.
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boost
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 706
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by vqc
Quote:
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Originally Posted by boost
However the claims against global warming are more akin to intelligent design than real science.
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How are claims against gw more akin to ID than real science (i mean i can see why but i would like to hear wat u think)?
I think that proponents of ID have put up wayyyy crappier scientific evidence and have way more fake degrees than opponents of gw. |
well thats why I said "more akin" not "exactly the same." Pretty much there are not very many respected scientists that opposed global warming outright. I honestly dont know off hand of a specific study that I can point to, and Im not going to go digging through scientific journals. The thing is though, I probably wouldnt find much looking there anyways. Most of whats published opposing gw is printed in newsweek, or some other non peer reviewed publication. They use lamemans terms and twisted statistics to make claims that seem very reasonable. Its a standard distraction tactic used by big business to confuse and disorient the public to slow change in legislation and public opinion of the industry under scrutiny.
We saw it with big tabacco, we saw it with slavery, now we are seeing it with global warming.
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