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moiraine57
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06-29-2005, 10:29 AM
Post subject: He called me with Jack high!
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 112
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Did you all ever see that episode of poker on TV, where a homeless guy won a seat to a final table? He was just thrilled to be there, so he thought he'd have fun. He raised a hand in the dark and ended up agitating one pro so much, the pro called him with Jack High---
That sounds ideal, but that is the nightmare I feel as though I am in.
I'm making money in limit hold em, sure. But am I maximizing my profit? Hell no. WTF are these assholes thinking? I've got A-Q, bet on every street, (check-raise on the turn) and am called the whole way by 6-8 that makes a pair of 8s on the end.
ARGH!
And then when I do get monster hands, will I get any action? No, these calling stations will just call call call. Reraise isn't in their vocabulary (unless of course they have unimproved wired nines with 2 overs on the board.....)
Their play is completely inexplicable to me. I can't be aggressive, because the dumbasses will never fold. But if I just camp for good hands...while, I might as well play NL and maximize my profit on camping.
Okay, rant over. At any rate, help me. I know there is money to be made here, but what is the best strategy? Aggression on a dangerous board seems out, because they'll call any old crap. But if I wanted to just camp, why not play NL? Help me out here, I'm getting frustrated, but definitely want to learn.
He called me with jack high! 
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pokerfanatic
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
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{moved from limit holdem}
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
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Grand_MasterB
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 466
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Come to the dark side and play NL... i would love to see that 8-6 calling you down when you are makin bot sized bets the whole way. Seriously with the state of the online game today i dont know why anyone would waste time playing any L poker for small stakes.
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ville18
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Yo mama
Posts: 223
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Limit's for #¤%ASR#¤
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Sed
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wastin' away again in margaritaville....
Posts: 1,102
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Grand_MasterB
Seriously with the state of the online game today i dont know why anyone would waste time playing any L poker for small stakes.
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Why don't you ask fnord...
-sed
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No fear, go deep or go home!
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DWDuck
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Canada eh?
Posts: 178
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Quote:
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i would love to see that 8-6 calling you down when you are makin bot sized bets the whole way
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Don't the online sites get suspicious with all these bot sized bets?
Darkwing
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Pizzaman
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 73
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The last week has been the opposite for me. I can't win for nuthin at NL, because I keep getting sucked out on. The only place I have been winning is at Limit, and I don't like to play Limit poker, but I like winning more than losing.
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God Bless America
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Grand_MasterB
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 466
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DWDuck
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i would love to see that 8-6 calling you down when you are makin bot sized bets the whole way
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Don't the online sites get suspicious with all these bot sized bets?
Darkwing |
haha if you are very sneaky you can avoid their attention
and as far as the limit thing goes. i've tried it out but cant bring myself to make 2BB/hr when i can be making 10+bb/hr playing NL. I know there are people out there who love limit. But i guess i just need the action.
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Phyl
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 396
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Grand_MasterB
i've tried it out but cant bring myself to make 2BB/hr when i can be making 10+bb/hr playing NL. I know there are people out there who love limit. But i guess i just need the action.
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That's a bad way to look at it. A limit game with blinds of $1 and $2 cannot be compared to a NL game of $1 and $2 blinds.
If you compare winrates to blinds then NL is much much more profitable but that's not a fair way to look at it.
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Grand_MasterB
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 466
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phyl
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Grand_MasterB
i've tried it out but cant bring myself to make 2BB/hr when i can be making 10+bb/hr playing NL. I know there are people out there who love limit. But i guess i just need the action.
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That's a bad way to look at it. A limit game with blinds of $1 and $2 cannot be compared to a NL game of $1 and $2 blinds.
If you compare winrates to blinds then NL is much much more profitable but that's not a fair way to look at it. |
How else would you look at is besides BB's won per hour? that totally negates the value of the big blind. Of course playing $1/2 NL is probably more like playing $5/10 L. im just not sure how else to compare the two.
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Phyl
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 396
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Grand_MasterB
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phyl
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Grand_MasterB
i've tried it out but cant bring myself to make 2BB/hr when i can be making 10+bb/hr playing NL. I know there are people out there who love limit. But i guess i just need the action.
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That's a bad way to look at it. A limit game with blinds of $1 and $2 cannot be compared to a NL game of $1 and $2 blinds.
If you compare winrates to blinds then NL is much much more profitable but that's not a fair way to look at it. |
How else would you look at is besides BB's won per hour? that totally negates the value of the big blind. Of course playing $1/2 NL is probably more like playing $5/10 L. im just not sure how else to compare the two. |
I think it's a better idea to compare their returns on investment, that is winrates to bankroll. With the ability to play loads of limit tables at the same time without much skill deterioration the profitability of the two games will be pretty close. Close enough that the only thing that matters is which you enjoy more.
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Grand_MasterB
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 466
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phyl
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Grand_MasterB
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phyl
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Grand_MasterB
i've tried it out but cant bring myself to make 2BB/hr when i can be making 10+bb/hr playing NL. I know there are people out there who love limit. But i guess i just need the action.
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That's a bad way to look at it. A limit game with blinds of $1 and $2 cannot be compared to a NL game of $1 and $2 blinds.
If you compare winrates to blinds then NL is much much more profitable but that's not a fair way to look at it. |
How else would you look at is besides BB's won per hour? that totally negates the value of the big blind. Of course playing $1/2 NL is probably more like playing $5/10 L. im just not sure how else to compare the two. |
I think it's a better idea to compare their returns on investment, that is winrates to bankroll. With the ability to play loads of limit tables at the same time without much skill deterioration the profitability of the two games will be pretty close. Close enough that the only thing that matters is which you enjoy more. |
Im a little confused??? isnt BB/hr just another way of saying return on investment? If i sit with $500 at a $5/10 limit table for an hour and win $50 i would have a 10% ROI. Wich figures to be 5bb/hr. Im not trying to get smart im just not seeing the difference...
its cause im stupid.
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Phyl
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 396
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Grand_MasterB
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phyl
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Originally Posted by Grand_MasterB
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phyl
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Grand_MasterB
i've tried it out but cant bring myself to make 2BB/hr when i can be making 10+bb/hr playing NL. I know there are people out there who love limit. But i guess i just need the action.
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That's a bad way to look at it. A limit game with blinds of $1 and $2 cannot be compared to a NL game of $1 and $2 blinds.
If you compare winrates to blinds then NL is much much more profitable but that's not a fair way to look at it. |
How else would you look at is besides BB's won per hour? that totally negates the value of the big blind. Of course playing $1/2 NL is probably more like playing $5/10 L. im just not sure how else to compare the two. |
I think it's a better idea to compare their returns on investment, that is winrates to bankroll. With the ability to play loads of limit tables at the same time without much skill deterioration the profitability of the two games will be pretty close. Close enough that the only thing that matters is which you enjoy more. |
Im a little confused??? isnt BB/hr just another way of saying return on investment? If i sit with $500 at a $5/10 limit table for an hour and win $50 i would have a 10% ROI. Wich figures to be 5bb/hr. Im not trying to get smart im just not seeing the difference...
its cause im stupid. |
You can't figure it out that way because the amount you buy in for is so unimportant in limit aslong as you have at least 12BBs (24 big blinds). It doesn't make a difference if your stack is 12BBs or 500BBs. So I think it's best to compare the amount of money you can make with a certain bankroll in the two games.
I think that makes sense, there's a chance I'm confusing everything here though. 
Edit: We/I have totally hijacked this thread.
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TylerK
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
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Basically with a bankroll of, say, $1200, you could play 2/4 limit but you couldn't (or shouldn't) play 2/4 NL. With that BR, one should be playing about $50 buyin NL (I think $100NL on a $1200 BR might be a little aggressive, correct me if I'm wrong), so the blinds would be...err, what are they usually? $.25/.50? So figure you have to make 8BB/100 at $50NL to come up even with $2/4 LHE. I figure that's reasonable, but I really have no idea about NL winrates. I'm guessing 10BB/100 at higher than the micro-est stakes is more wishful thinking than anything else.
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TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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journey075
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 725
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btw, that homeless black guy was insanely annoying.
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pokerfanatic
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
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I moved the thread because if my memory is right the tournament was NL, but I might be wrong plus it fits bettor here anyways...
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
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journey075
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 725
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerfanatic01
I moved the thread because if my memory is right the tournament was NL, but I might be wrong plus it fits bettor here anyways...
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it was a limit tourney.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by journey075
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerfanatic01
I moved the thread because if my memory is right the tournament was NL, but I might be wrong plus it fits bettor here anyways...
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'
it was a limit tourney. |
Oooo, way to drop the ball pkrfan!
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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pokerfanatic
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
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hehe opps, sorry about that, but this thing got a bettor response in here then it would have in the limit topic that's for sure... 
ps i'm not moving another thread unless i'm 100% surew about it...
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
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Element187
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 802
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sed
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Grand_MasterB
Seriously with the state of the online game today i dont know why anyone would waste time playing any L poker for small stakes.
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Why don't you ask fnord...
-sed |
i'll second that.
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"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
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Demiparadigm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Party 6 max
Posts: 1,602
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phyl
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Grand_MasterB
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phyl
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Grand_MasterB
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Phyl
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Grand_MasterB
i've tried it out but cant bring myself to make 2BB/hr when i can be making 10+bb/hr playing NL. I know there are people out there who love limit. But i guess i just need the action.
|
That's a bad way to look at it. A limit game with blinds of $1 and $2 cannot be compared to a NL game of $1 and $2 blinds.
If you compare winrates to blinds then NL is much much more profitable but that's not a fair way to look at it. |
How else would you look at is besides BB's won per hour? that totally negates the value of the big blind. Of course playing $1/2 NL is probably more like playing $5/10 L. im just not sure how else to compare the two. |
I think it's a better idea to compare their returns on investment, that is winrates to bankroll. With the ability to play loads of limit tables at the same time without much skill deterioration the profitability of the two games will be pretty close. Close enough that the only thing that matters is which you enjoy more. |
Im a little confused??? isnt BB/hr just another way of saying return on investment? If i sit with $500 at a $5/10 limit table for an hour and win $50 i would have a 10% ROI. Wich figures to be 5bb/hr. Im not trying to get smart im just not seeing the difference...
its cause im stupid. |
You can't figure it out that way because the amount you buy in for is so unimportant in limit aslong as you have at least 12BBs (24 big blinds). It doesn't make a difference if your stack is 12BBs or 500BBs. So I think it's best to compare the amount of money you can make with a certain bankroll in the two games.
I think that makes sense, there's a chance I'm confusing everything here though.
Edit: We/I have totally hijacked this thread. |
Ummm.... I like limit. Most high stakes games are still limit.
Why is this thread in the Community?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xianti
FTR Community
All NON-POKER off-topic miscellany. Our lounge.
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I am going to agree with Phyl.
But to answer the original question:
YOU WANT PEOPLE TO CALL YOU WITH BAD HANDS! If everyone folded when you had them beat, how much money do you think you would make?
This question comes up every week or so. We need a sticky in the beginners forum that just says
"If you can't beat shitty players you can't fucking beat good players either!"
Seriously.
But keep betting with the best hand. It'll pay off.
The reason that you are losing money is not because people are sucking out on your big hands it is that
You suck at limit hold 'em.
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To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
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straight167
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 62
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{Edited for content by a500lbgorilla}
NO BAD BEATS OUTSIDE OF ITS ALL BAD
What is this thread about and where does it go?
-'rilla
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