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mrhappy333
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07-03-2008, 08:41 PM
Post subject: Hadron Collider = End of Earth?
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 1,078
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_...adron_Collider
discuss?
There was an article in the local Newspaper about this thing. Of course it was creating a Doomsday picture, because Obv, thats what newspapers do.That said, It seems something as powerful as this thing is could be unimaginable dangerous to all of us.
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mrhappy333
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 1,078
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here's the AP article.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT
Jun 28, 3:08 PM EDT
Scientists: Nothing to fear from atom-smasher
By DOUGLAS BIRCH
MEYRIN, Switzerland (AP) -- The most powerful atom-smasher ever built could make some bizarre discoveries, such as invisible matter or extra dimensions in space, after it is switched on in August.
But some critics fear the Large Hadron Collider could exceed physicists' wildest conjectures: Will it spawn a black hole that could swallow Earth? Or spit out particles that could turn the planet into a hot dead clump?
Ridiculous, say scientists at the European Organization for Nuclear Research, known by its French initials CERN - some of whom have been working for a generation on the $5.8 billion collider, or LHC.
"Obviously, the world will not end when the LHC switches on," said project leader Lyn Evans.
David Francis, a physicist on the collider's huge ATLAS particle detector, smiled when asked whether he worried about black holes and hypothetical killer particles known as strangelets.
"If I thought that this was going to happen, I would be well away from here," he said.
The collider basically consists of a ring of supercooled magnets 17 miles in circumference attached to huge barrel-shaped detectors. The ring, which straddles the French and Swiss border, is buried 330 feet underground.
The machine, which has been called the largest scientific experiment in history, isn't expected to begin test runs until August, and ramping up to full power could take months. But once it is working, it is expected to produce some startling findings.
Scientists plan to hunt for signs of the invisible "dark matter" and "dark energy" that make up more than 96 percent of the universe, and hope to glimpse the elusive Higgs boson, a so-far undiscovered particle thought to give matter its mass.
The collider could find evidence of extra dimensions, a boon for superstring theory, which holds that quarks, the particles that make up atoms, are infinitesimal vibrating strings.
The theory could resolve many of physics' unanswered questions, but requires about 10 dimensions - far more than the three spatial dimensions our senses experience.
The safety of the collider, which will generate energies seven times higher than its most powerful rival, at Fermilab near Chicago, has been debated for years. The physicist Martin Rees has estimated the chance of an accelerator producing a global catastrophe at one in 50 million - long odds, to be sure, but about the same as winning some lotteries.
By contrast, a CERN team this month issued a report concluding that there is "no conceivable danger" of a cataclysmic event. The report essentially confirmed the findings of a 2003 CERN safety report, and a panel of five prominent scientists not affiliated with CERN, including one Nobel laureate, endorsed its conclusions.
Critics of the LHC filed a lawsuit in a Hawaiian court in March seeking to block its startup, alleging that there was "a significant risk that ... operation of the Collider may have unintended consequences which could ultimately result in the destruction of our planet."
One of the plaintiffs, Walter L. Wagner, a physicist and lawyer, said Wednesday CERN's safety report, released June 20, "has several major flaws," and his views on the risks of using the particle accelerator had not changed.
On Tuesday, U.S. Justice Department lawyers representing the Department of Energy and the National Science Foundation filed a motion to dismiss the case.
The two agencies have contributed $531 million to building the collider, and the NSF has agreed to pay $87 million of its annual operating costs. Hundreds of American scientists will participate in the research.
The lawyers called the plaintiffs' allegations "extraordinarily speculative," and said "there is no basis for any conceivable threat" from black holes or other objects the LHC might produce. A hearing on the motion is expected in late July or August.
In rebutting doomsday scenarios, CERN scientists point out that cosmic rays have been bombarding the earth, and triggering collisions similar to those planned for the collider, since the solar system formed 4.5 billion years ago.
And so far, Earth has survived.
"The LHC is only going to reproduce what nature does every second, what it has been doing for billions of years," said John Ellis, a British theoretical physicist at CERN.
Critics like Wagner have said the collisions caused by accelerators could be more hazardous than those of cosmic rays.
Both may produce micro black holes, subatomic versions of cosmic black holes - collapsed stars whose gravity fields are so powerful that they can suck in planets and other stars.
But micro black holes produced by cosmic ray collisions would likely be traveling so fast they would pass harmlessly through the earth.
Micro black holes produced by a collider, the skeptics theorize, would move more slowly and might be trapped inside the earth's gravitational field - and eventually threaten the planet.
Ellis said doomsayers assume that the collider will create micro black holes in the first place, which he called unlikely. And even if they appeared, he said, they would instantly evaporate, as predicted by the British physicist Stephen Hawking.
As for strangelets, CERN scientists point out that they have never been proven to exist. They said that even if these particles formed inside the Collider they would quickly break down.
When the LHC is finally at full power, two beams of protons will race around the huge ring 11,000 times a second in opposite directions. They will travel in two tubes about the width of fire hoses, speeding through a vacuum that is colder and emptier than outer space.
Their trajectory will be curved by supercooled magnets - to guide the beams around the rings and prevent the packets of protons from cutting through the surrounding magnets like a blowtorch.
The paths of these beams will cross, and a few of the protons in them will collide, at a series of cylindrical detectors along the ring. The two largest detectors are essentially huge digital cameras, each weighing thousands of tons, capable of taking millions of snapshots a second.
Each year the detectors will generate 15 petabytes of data, the equivalent of a stack of CDs 12 miles tall. The data will require a high speed global network of computers for analysis.
Wagner and others filed a lawsuit to halt operation of the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider, or RHIC, at the Brookhaven National Laboratory in New York state in 1999. The courts dismissed the suit.
The leafy campus of CERN, a short drive from the shores of Lake Geneva, hardly seems like ground zero for doomsday. And locals don't seem overly concerned. Thousands attended an open house here this spring.
"There is a huge army of scientists who know what they are talking about and are sleeping quite soundly as far as concerns the LHC," said project leader Evans.
© 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
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kingnat
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07-03-2008, 08:50 PM
Post subject: Re: Hadron Collider = End of Earth?
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#3 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 827
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mrhappy333
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_of_the_Large_Hadron_Collider
discuss?
There was an article in the local Newspaper about this thing. Of course it was creating a Doomsday picture, because Obv, thats what newspapers do.That said, It seems something as powerful as this thing is could be unimaginable dangerous to all of us.
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LOL... thumbs up level... or epic failure.
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So you click their picture and then you get their money?
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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damn u and your interesting articles!
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kingnat
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 827
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"the chance of this happening is like you winning the major prize on the lottery 3 weeks in succession; the problem is that people believe it is possible to win the lottery 3 weeks in succession." <---- this made me lol.
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So you click their picture and then you get their money?
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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i dont recall the numbers specifically, but the reason the hadron collider will not tear a hole in the fabric of the universe or many other doomsdays scenarios is because the power it requires do such is not wielded by this collider. in fact, i believe that it may be that in order to perform many of the 'miracles' suggested here we would need more power than is found in the entire solar system. dont quote me on that though.
also micro black holes arent a problem since they are unstable and will annihilate before they come in contact with anything else.
this thing is fucking awesome. i hope so much that they discover amazing things, like strangelets. shit we think stuff is weird now, not even close to what they theorize is out there. also it would be nice to discover dark matter/energy since they've been trying to with no success for decades.
and did they say that it was over only half a billion to fund this? if so thats the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard and im not joking. the greatest scientific project that will likely greatly aid in every branch of science known takes a back seat so far behind that its not even comparable to war. if our govt funded science over the last few decades like they fund retarded shit we'd all be living beyond a century and in virtual reality and have personal robots and all this great stuff.
god i hate war. not because im a bleeding heart (fuck people) but because im selfish
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speedcake
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tampa
Posts: 434
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wufwugy
god i hate war. not because im a bleeding heart (fuck people) but because im selfish
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hear, hear!
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2_Thumbs_Up
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 271
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Even if they do fuck up and turn the entire earth into a black hole everything in our solar system would go on as usual. The gravitational pull only depends on the mass so the only difference would be that our planet has contracted into an increadibly small point. None of the other planets would notice anything and we'd continue in our orbit around the sun as usual.
We would have created the most pathetic black hole in the universe. At least that's something.
This would be pretty funny for any visiting civilization in the future, since it would be pretty obvious we were an intelligent specie, but all we left behind us was the tiniest black hole in the universe and a blue-white-red flag on a small moon orbiting around it.
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
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The fears that have built up regarding the LHC are the same fears that were once had prior to the first A-Bomb explosion. Many thought one possibility was that the atomic particles would not cease to split. I'm not worried at all.
I am extremely optimistic of the results from these experiments. When scientists from CERN flip the switch, it will be known as the moment when humans took a giant leap forwards in science. Unfortunately, it will be a very long time after the green light on this experiment before we have any sort of improvement on our quality of life / living standards. It'll take a long time just to collect and analyze the information that was produced.
My only concern is that of another delay. The first date for flipping the switch, was last year in November. That date was rescheduled for mid-May of this year.
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Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
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LETS DO THIS!
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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frosst
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: count-n mah monies stewie-style
Posts: 220
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wait wat? i cant win the lottery 3 times in a row. damn. (crumples paper and throws in trash) there goes that plan
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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I've got a hard on for the Hadron tearing this time-space apart.
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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ProZachNation
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Over there!
Posts: 801
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Hey guys, don't worry Gordon Freeman will save us if it goes to shit, that guy knows whats up.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mrhappy333
I didn't think its Bold to bang some chick with my bro. but i guess so... thats +EV in my book.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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then morgan freeman will narrate it
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kingnat
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 827
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
I've got a hard on for the Hadron tearing this time-space apart.
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i lol'd.
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So you click their picture and then you get their money?
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phantom_lord
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 349
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wufwugy
i dont recall the numbers specifically, but the reason the hadron collider will not tear a hole in the fabric of the universe or many other doomsdays scenarios is because the power it requires do such is not wielded by this collider. in fact, i believe that it may be that in order to perform many of the 'miracles' suggested here we would need more power than is found in the entire solar system. dont quote me on that though.
also micro black holes arent a problem since they are unstable and will annihilate before they come in contact with anything else.
this thing is fucking awesome. i hope so much that they discover amazing things, like strangelets. shit we think stuff is weird now, not even close to what they theorize is out there. also it would be nice to discover dark matter/energy since they've been trying to with no success for decades.
and did they say that it was over only half a billion to fund this? if so thats the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard and im not joking. the greatest scientific project that will likely greatly aid in every branch of science known takes a back seat so far behind that its not even comparable to war. if our govt funded science over the last few decades like they fund retarded shit we'd all be living beyond a century and in virtual reality and have personal robots and all this great stuff.
god i hate war. not because im a bleeding heart (fuck people) but because im selfish
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yeah, I've been reading about this for a while and I can't wait for them to fire it up, pretty exciting times.
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItDrew
My only concern is that of another delay. The first date for flipping the switch, was last year in November. That date was rescheduled for mid-May of this year.
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I found out this weekend that it has been postponed yet again, for September.
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Pythonic
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: In S-mart Swallowing Your Soul!
Posts: 586
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Hadron - Send me back to the early 50s so I can purchase thousands of packs of baseball cards and pull out all of them Mickey Mantle rookie cards.
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Never bet on a white man in the heavyweight division!
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mrhappy333
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 1,078
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Hadron- send me back so I can buy Microsoft stock.
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3 3 3 I'm only half evil.
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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What would happen if I farted in it?
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LOL OPERATIONS
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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you would assplode dlo
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pythonic
Hadron - Send me back to the early 50s so I can purchase thousands of packs of baseball cards and pull out all of them Mickey Mantle rookie cards.
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I used to be huge into the collection of sports cards, including MLB. The most expensive card for any league/collection is the T206 Honus Wagner Baseball card from 1909-1911.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T206_Honus_Wagner
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wesrman
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Leaf Nation
Posts: 654
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Happens next week.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...cle1630897.ece
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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a) This is the least of our worries
b) If it does rip a hole in spacetime and we all get vaporised it'll be good to know that we went in the most fucking awesome way possible
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Being stranded on a desert island of amazon co-eds who fck your brains out til you die of exhaustion sounds better, imo
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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ProZachNation
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Over there!
Posts: 801
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The same thing the hadron collider is replicating happens all the time so I am in no way worried.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mrhappy333
I didn't think its Bold to bang some chick with my bro. but i guess so... thats +EV in my book.
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mrhappy333
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 1,078
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3 3 3 I'm only half evil.
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ATOTHEC101
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Full House
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,248
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the sun is the most garbagey working class paper known to man, but they do post nice pics of boobies so i cant complain.
Also, if i get vapourized whilst getting 5 bet by the bb with me holding aa on the btn 200bbs deep im gonna be pissed.
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givememyleg
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WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ISHPERMING MISHIGEN
Posts: 5,042
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omg 9 days to live? i better play some world of warcraft.
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Get your own badge! Click profile at the top and FTR Badge from the left nav.
"The Dragon in My Garage" by Carl Sagan
I say onto you, I've felt the dragon! I felt the touch of his tail, the breath of his fire, and I know without a shadow of a doubt that the dragon exists!
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wesrman
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Leaf Nation
Posts: 654
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by givememyleg
omg 9 days to live? i better play some world of warcraft.
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LOL.
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cobere
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fort Collins
Posts: 336
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didn't realize there was a post on LHC when i posted what i did. Anyway, here's something fun from that:
http://xkcd.com/401/
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On moving up, properly rolled:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by drmcboy
You don't know if you're J-Fish or A Fish until you try.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by givememyleg
omg 9 days to live? i better play some world of warcraft.
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you win this thread
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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2_Thumbs_Up
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 271
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ProZachNation
The same thing the hadron collider is replicating happens all the time so I am in no way worried.
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Exactly! This is like turning your back against a forest fire and complaining about people playing with matches.
Anyway
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j50ZssEojtM
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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do these things happen all the time on earth?
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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2_Thumbs_Up
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 271
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
do these things happen all the time on earth?
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Like a billion of times per second.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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I mean on THIS earth
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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2_Thumbs_Up
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 271
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??
So do I. Particles from space hit our atmosphere in tremendous speeds all the time. LHC is just the same thing in observable conditions.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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I don't see black holes in my back yard!
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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2_Thumbs_Up
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 271
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That kind of proves that these collisions are harmless doesn't it?
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wesrman
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Leaf Nation
Posts: 654
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September 10th is the day. I hope it kills us all. 
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by 2_Thumbs_Up
That kind of proves that these collisions are harmless doesn't it?
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Just because they're invisible doesn't mean the hadron collider should just be unleashing these things on the world. Imagine a black hole at your children's school!
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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anyone have any idea what EST it will be switched on at?
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Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
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mrhappy333
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 1,078
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This just seems so dangerous.
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3 3 3 I'm only half evil.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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42
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wesrman
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Leaf Nation
Posts: 654
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
42
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What???
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Reidak
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 566
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end of earth, start of something better
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mrhappy333
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 1,078
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
42
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is the answer to all ifes questions.
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3 3 3 I'm only half evil.
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2_Thumbs_Up
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 271
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"They're waiting for you Gordon... In the test chamber."
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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oh snap
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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pantherhound
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Love me for a season
Posts: 492
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by 2_Thumbs_Up
That kind of proves that these collisions are harmless doesn't it?
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Just because they're invisible doesn't mean the hadron collider should just be unleashing these things on the world. Imagine a black hole at your children's school! |
Won't somebody think of the children!
Anyway, how is everyone going to spend their final hours?
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