Game of Thrones TV Thread **HBO-Purists ONLY**

[boost]

Looks like I was wrong, and Sansa is just always gonna be a victim. Le sigh.

It's pretty lame to always demand the same stale innocent-maturity through hardship-triumphant story arc. Sansa can both always be the victim and have interesting character development.

[jackvance]

Nice episode again. I guess next episode Brienne will save Sansa so she can finally catch a break, or will there be another twist there?

but my real hang up was with the head of the faith playing to cersei's tune.

Was just catching up reading this thread - lol rilla.

[JKDS]

It's pretty lame to always demand the same stale innocent-maturity through hardship-triumphant story arc. Sansa can both always be the victim and have interesting character development.

I agree, but I think the helpless victim story arc is even worse. I had some high hopes that she was doing all this as just some sort of plan, and it turns out shes still just helplessly going from day to day. Id rather see her try and save herself and fail than be forever abused.

Huh. Im starting to sound like someone who is upset that an abused wife stays with her husband :/ Its cool that the show is making me mimic that feeling.

[boost]

I'd like to think that she's a sort of character foil to Daenerys, and possibly a sort of three way foil with Margery. Hell, now that I think of it, every highborn woman in the show. Sometimes you're lucky, like Cat, sometimes you're lucky, but don't realize it, like Cersei, and sometimes you're a Sansa. Other times things break incredibly well for women in this world, and despite their sole worth ostensibly being as a pawn in a political marriage, you very rarely might get the right woman who gains just enough footing to become a Daenerys. This is the exception though, and so the unfortunate rest act as counterpoints to give us an accurate view of a highborn woman's life in this world.

[baudib]

Feels like the Dorne storyline is going to be tortuously drawn out the way the Dany storyline is.

[boost]

I can see that happening, but I also could see it moving much faster since the Lannister's position is so significantly weakened.

I think Jaime is not long for this world. I think we see one last good fight from him-- almost certainly vs. the battle axe guy in a trial by combat. It's funny, because the root of my speculation is that Jaime's character's arc doesn't have too many places to go, there's no chance he's returning to Kings Landing, and saving his Daughter and going out like more or less a hero, as well his death works into the Lannister downfall arc.

Now why it's funny is because the specificity of my speculation regarding his demise is all based on the fact that his golden hand's arc has not been completed. The gold hand was cast and attached to the infamous arm of Jaime Lannister, then despite being the most baller prosthetic limb in all of Westeros and Esso combined, it was a burden in Jaime's attempt to regain his skills in combat. And clearly the little skirmish with the Dornish boarder patrol where the golden hand finally hits its stride is only rising action, not a proper arc climax.

[baudib]

The only possible deaths that would bother me more than Jaimie are Arya and Danny.

Maybe Littlefinger, because killing Littlefinger makes no sense.

The problem with killing off Jaimie is that it leaves so many fascinating unresolved issues.

[boost]

The problem with killing off Jaimie is that it leaves so many fascinating unresolved issues.

Like? (This isn't meant to be argumentative, I'm just drawing a blank and am hoping you can jog my memory)

[baudib]

As the man who literally ended the Targaryen dynasty, an endgame encounter between him and Dany would be pretty awesome.

Along similar lines...well we can speculate about Jon Snow's lineage but we know as a Stark he has no love for the Lannisters either. Jaimie represents all the best and worst of the Lannisters.

I don't know if there's any real payoff in a Brienne-Jaimie "romance," as it seems likely they played a part in each other's development, but it's definitely a thing.

Dany has already linked up with Tyrion, is the farewell from last season really the last time the two brothers will meet?

[ManchesterUnited]

[jackvance]

I agree, but I think the helpless victim story arc is even worse. I had some high hopes that she was doing all this as just some sort of plan, and it turns out shes still just helplessly going from day to day. Id rather see her try and save herself and fail than be forever abused.

Huh. Im starting to sound like someone who is upset that an abused wife stays with her husband :/ Its cool that the show is making me mimic that feeling.

Life isn't fair. GoT actually shows you something realistic for a change. There's a reason why it's the most popular show,

[boost]

As the man who literally ended the Targaryen dynasty, an endgame encounter between him and Dany would be pretty awesome.

Yeah, I just don't see these characters are some sort of arch rivals.

Along similar lines...well we can speculate about Jon Snow's lineage but we know as a Stark he has no love for the Lannisters either. Jaimie represents all the best and worst of the Lannisters.

Again, this just doesn't seem like characters who will or even should meet. But I'd have to think more on both of these to make these statements more than opinions.

I don't know if there's any real payoff in a Brienne-Jaimie "romance," as it seems likely they played a part in each other's development, but it's definitely a thing.

Their interaction is absolutely complete. Their characters propelled each other forward in a great way. Having them meet again would be gratuitous, and if you're going to have gratuitous character reunions, I can easily name a dozen other pairs that would be preferable. Further, Jaime's sigh and expression as he sailed passed Tarth is the nail in the coffin of their reunion.

Dany has already linked up with Tyrion, is the farewell from last season really the last time the two brothers will meet?

I think most likely, but this does make me rethink Jaime meeting Daenerys. With Tyrion advising, it could be an amazing scene-- watching Tyrion litigate in front of Daenerys for mercy for his brother who now despises Tyrion for killing his father and who, himself, is hated by Daenerys for killing her father.

But for this to happen, I'm sure Jaime has to win a trial by combat vs the battle axe dude.

[baudib]

You're probably right about Brienne-Jaimie. IDK about the others.

The Lannister dynasty in Westeros just feels a lot less of a thing if it's just Cersei getting WTFPwned by LF/Olenna all the time. The Cersei-Jaimie relationship can't be over, can it?

[jackvance]

The Cersei-Jaimie relationship can't be over, can it?

The Lannisters are pretty much the counter-weight to the rest of the nobility vying for the throne so I don't think any more of them will perish. Tyrion is immortal in GoT terms, he was even prophesized to do great things (that woman looking at him). Jamie and Cersei have to stick around - if not, there don't seem to be enough people left to keep it interesting in King's Landing.

[boost]

The Lannisters are pretty much the counter-weight to the rest of the nobility vying for the throne so I don't think any more of them will perish. Tyrion is immortal in GoT terms, he was even prophesized to do great things (that woman looking at him). Jamie and Cersei have to stick around - if not, there don't seem to be enough people left to keep it interesting in King's Landing.

The Sparrows are the counter weight to the nobility.

[a500lbgorilla]

As the man who literally ended the Targaryen dynasty, an endgame encounter between him and Dany would be pretty awesome.

Funny to think that he stuck Crazy 'Ole Targaryen to end their dynasty, then he stuck Cercei to end the Baratheon dynasty. Guy's a slayer.

[boost]

Crickets in here? Really?

[givememyleg]

Putting time conveniences aside, I thought the last episode was really well done. It had a fair balance of every story, didn't waste much, if any time, on minor details, and is starting to show a clearer picture on everything. I really like the Daenerys - Tyrion collaboration, but that's no surprise since Tyrion makes everything good. I think Cersei will end up getting her revenge, but am interested to see how it plays out. She's tough as nails, but damn it feels good to see something bad finally happen to her. I think that will be the last we see anything on Jon Snow/wildlings this season, and showed just how fucked everyone is against the white walkers. I think Reek will end up helping Sansa in some way but not sure how it will tie in with Brienne.

Don't have much to say but damn I'm looking forward to the final 2 episodes. I kind of wish they would make seasons 12 episodes instead of 10.

[givememyleg]

Also for those who haven't seen it for the lols:

[Eric]

Winter hath cometh!

Nice to see some action up North.

Sucks that there are only 2 more episodes this season.

[wufwugy]

loved this ep.

[boost]

This battle was better than all the others because it was such a complete surprise. Think about it-- we knew Blackwater was coming, we know Castle Black was coming, there were a couple that we expected, but didn't happen or weren't shown-- but until that ominous mist started to roll in, there was no hint that it would go down.

Also, the Lord of Bones getting lulstomped was completely unexpected as well, and a great surprise ending to a supposed bad ass.

[jackvance]

Nice ep. Was a bit faster paced than we're used of GoT. Seeing Cersei downtrodded was weird, I don't expect it to last too long but not sure. Tyrion and Denaerys are my dream team, that's awesome. And the big battle at the end, totally unexpected, but in another way it makes total sense for something like this to happen. The siege on King's Landing was also an ep 8 of an earlier season and this now adds urgency and a counter-weight to the fight for the throne as a REAL threat for everyone has appeared. I was onbly left wondering one thing.. John Snow's boat was so close.. do the undead fear water or something?

[wufwugy]

The water thing probably just has to do with trying to chase that boat from the seabed being a great way to not get it and to lose your zombie army.

Love Wun Wun. I hope to god he's kept as a somewhat regular character. I want to see him in several eps of each season. Killing all the giants before the "final" battle or whatever would be a terrible literary choice. I just wish they had a bigger budget so they didn't have to reuse so many of his movements. He needed to be doing shit like crushing skeletons just with his grip or flinging them off him in more than just that one forward thrust.

Wildling chick was fucking gorgeous. They breed em well in Denmark.

Loved everything about Jon's fight with the walker. Only thing I didn't much care for is how he exploded into water. I think I would prefer if Jon's sword embedded into his torso and the walker quickly began melting, cracks running out from the blade and water dripping from them. Maybe that would have been bigger budget though. It's just that the explosion doesn't seem physically realistic. It looked like Jon could have just hit him in the arm and he still would have exploded. But that's no good.

[boost]

Yeah, I agree whole heartedly about the walker's death effect. It felt very Harry Potterish. I think, like you've guessed, it's just a case of picking where effects money goes with a limited budget. But in this particular case it comes off as jarring because the show is otherwise so graphic, and so this style of effect which normally gets used to ensure a PG rating feels out of place. The more decayed undead felt kind of LOTRish or Potterish as well. I think this same complaint was common after the episode last season in which Brann and Co. had a skirmish with reanimated skeletons.

As for the giant's animation being recycled, I think it was well edited, because I wouldn't have noticed if you hadn't pointed it out.

[baudib]

I like how "I hate fucking Thenns" has kinda become the show's joke like "I've got a bad feeling about this" or something.

[Eric]

do the undead fear water or something?

Yeah, it did look like a zombie movie where the living use water as a barrier.

[wufwugy]

I love how the walkers are so cold they extinguish fire near them.

I won't be surprised if the only fire that can kill them is dragon fire. I would like that less than if dragon fire couldn't kill them. If dragons can torch them than they're ultimately not a threat, but if only certain blades can kill them, the fight is even and dependent on humans overcoming them instead of just unleashing dragons.

[Eric]

instead of just unleashing dragons.

We've seen Dany's 3 dragons. How many others are there?

[wufwugy]

We've seen Dany's 3 dragons. How many others are there?

I'm referring to those.

I suspect one Drogon could torch from the skies the entire walker/wight army in a day. I'm hoping that instead of this happening, the walkers have significant enough power over the weather that they can stop dragons from flying over their armies that well or something.

It's gonna be kinda lame if salvation is dependent upon Dany showing up. I'd like to see her be significant, but if her dragons can just roast the walkers, I don't see where the conflict is.

[Eric]

Yeah, Dany's dragons are badass but it would be more impressive if she had more than 3.

[baudib]

The story is "A Song of Fire and Ice" so the battle of fire vs. ice has long been foreshadowed.

Dragons are not the only force of fire. There's R'hllor as well.

Pure speculation on my part that The Many-Face God will have a part to play that's larger than simply inspiring Arya. Patrons of the God of Death might perhaps have some control over the undead.

[rong]

I just lost 2 hours on the got wiki. Think I might read the books after all.

[a500lbgorilla]

I just lost 2 hours on the got wiki. Think I might read the books after all.

Skip 'em and go right to the tin-foil hat theories.

[rong]

Doing so gave me minor spoilers

[a500lbgorilla]

Crinkle your tinfoil hat harder.

[a500lbgorilla]

Honestly though, after Sunday, there'll be no more spoilers left. And the desire of fans to put two and two together is amazing.

Besides, I'm sure there's a better tinfoil hat that'll upturn whatever spoiler you found. Except for that one...

[wufwugy]

Skip 'em and go right to the tin-foil hat theories.

i agree with this. the tin foil is so spectacular. im not even going to read TWOIAF or AGOT since I get everything "new" out of the ASOIAF world from reddit analysis and speculation.

[wufwugy]

Doing so gave me minor spoilers

pm me what they are. i won't respond, just wondering what they are

[boost]

Yeah, I'm pretty excited for this season to be over-- from what I gather there will really be no need for non-readers to shelter themselves.

[a500lbgorilla]

No, you'll be free. Free to explore a world of time-travelling dead fetuses and immortal face-snatching patriarchs.

[wufwugy]

i think there are still going to be some new things in s6 from the books. there's a rumor of one. tiny stuff though.

[a500lbgorilla]

Yeah, but with the stuff the show completely skipped over, I don't even think they're spoilers anymore. They could happen in the show world, but they also could not. Just hearing they happened in the books doesn't mean anything.

edit I can think of a couple of things that probably would happen, but I wouldn't care to spoil them. Compared to what's been missed, they're tiny like you said.

[Eric]

Can't wait for tonight's episode!

[Eric]

The episodes always seem too short.

[givememyleg]

Fans would hate him worse than Ramsay or Joffrey for killing his sweet daughter. There's no way he can do it.

I didn't think he would either, but now at least they have another Joffrey.

I can't get over how ridiculous the end scene looked w blondie riding the dragon.

[rong]

Rape rape rape, kill a child, tape rape, Battle, kill a child, dragon!

This show is so fucking depressing and it ain't that good.

[Eric]

Yeah, the amount of evil is mind boggling.

Sometimes there is no good guy. It's kind of like some mob movies, you end up pulling for the "bad guy" because he's not as evil as the guys who are really f'd up.

[Eric]

What ever happened to Bran Stark? I haven't seen him this season but I don't remember him getting killed.

[FastOne]

What ever happened to Bran Stark? I haven't seen him this season but I don't remember him getting killed.

He made it to his destination, met the "One Eye Raven", and he has not appeared again ever since.

[Eric]

He made it to his destination, met the "One Eye Raven", and he has not appeared again ever since.

Hmm, that's weird. Hopefully we'll get more info on that soon.

[baudib]

I just can't take Stannis seriously as a character after that.

The dude was so intensely unlikeable and life nitty and we got to see a bit of his soul in his talk with Shireen earlier in the season. The guiding principle to Stannis are duty and his claim to the throne is based on blood/family so yeah, just hand your little daughter over to the evil priestess. Like is this how Stannis wants to be remembered, the would-be king who was enslaved by an insane priestess and sacrificed his daughter to a bloodthirsty god?

It'd be one thing if Stannis were a true believer/fanatic, but the dude is just playing this R'hallor card out of pragmatism. I mean the slugs worked before, it's a big step from some slugs killing off Robb Stark and Joffrey to killing your daughter. anyway...

[Eric]

I just can't take Stannis seriously as a character after that.

The dude was so intensely unlikeable and life nitty and we got to see a bit of his soul in his talk with Shireen earlier in the season. The guiding principle to Stannis are duty and his claim to the throne is based on blood/family so yeah, just hand your little daughter over to the evil priestess. Like is this how Stannis wants to be remembered, the would-be king who was enslaved by an insane priestess and sacrificed his daughter to a bloodthirsty god?

Agreed. Were it not for the "you are my daughter" talk earlier this season then it would be a little more plausible. They went too far trying to trick us or whatever about his thought process.

[JKDS]

Do you guys feel GOT has lost its mystery?

I feel like a lot of what made Season 1 good was trying to figure out just what the hell was going on. Like, there was a "who killed the prior hand" thing; who pushed Bran down; what are Tyrion, Littlefinger, and Varys's motives?

Now it doesnt really seem like that is there. There are still surprises, like how sacrificing the daughter is gonna help Stannis, but the mystery is gone. Arya is learning to kill people, Stannis is gonna fight the flaying people, Jon has all these wildings to fight the zombies, ok cool. But it feels like now...we're just going through the motions.

Idk. thoughts?

[wufwugy]

D&D never liked Stanny the Manny. Him killing Shireen wasn't just awful by itself, but also in that the explanation of his motivation is weak. He was always a classic Greek tragedy, but they've instead just thrown him into the bucket with other affected elements meant to further their dystopian agenda.

[wufwugy]

Do you guys feel GOT has lost its mystery?

I feel like a lot of what made Season 1 good was trying to figure out just what the hell was going on. Like, there was a "who killed the prior hand" thing; who pushed Bran down; what are Tyrion, Littlefinger, and Varys's motives?

Now it doesnt really seem like that is there. There are still surprises, like how sacrificing the daughter is gonna help Stannis, but the mystery is gone. Arya is learning to kill people, Stannis is gonna fight the flaying people, Jon has all these wildings to fight the zombies, ok cool. But it feels like now...we're just going through the motions.

Idk. thoughts?

Yes. I think this is entirely due to the diversion. Over the seasons, the show has become less about mystery and realism and more about "hey let's strip away most of the nuance and create as much dread as possible".

For example, Ramsay is a caricature. He's a fucking joke. He's the Westeros version of The Joker. He's a brilliant genius master of all things. He crushes the baddest Ironborn with his sleek pecs and barky dogs, he eliminates the greatest living war commander's resources without even appearing on screen, he roots out all conspiracies against him regardless of how secretive. He's one of D&D's many stupid tools to make us feel that our heroes either can't win or need help from other more favorite heroes.

The story started out as one where every character had agency. Now many of those agents are just tools to get reactions out of the audience and yearn for every casual watcher's favorite agent (Kelly C).

[wufwugy]

The other thing that pisses me off is that I'm just sure that her death is going to do fuckall. It'll probably just melt the snow or some shit. Meanwhile a bastard's leeched blood killed three kings (*cough* Balon who? *cough*). So if we're being logical, burning the entire body of a princess should be enough for the walls of Winterfell to crumble overnight, Ramsay to go crazy and skin Roose alive, then Stannis' army develops temporary invulnerability and perfect-games the Bolton forces.

But no, it's probably going to be melted snow.

[baudib]

yeah the leeches seemed to do enough before.

[JKDS]

Thats another thing.

They built up the leeches scene. It was like "one for each king". Then for the rest of the season we were like "Is Joff gonna die? Really? Nah".

Here its like...ok...so they burned her. But I didnt hear what for...so now I just know something is gonna happen. Well, ok, but I already figured that out on my own. Thanks. If the answer is just "they dont die in the snow"...well...ok. That feels cheap tho; because the snow only existed for this scene. It feels manufactured, and plot devicy, and likely just a means to kill off a character that didnt matter so much.

[wufwugy]

This is really the sort of thing where we have to discuss the books in order to explain why D&D have screwed the pooch so badly. None of it is spoiler, but about D&D fucking up the adaptation.

[JKDS]

TO THE BOOK THREAD! AWAAAAAAAAAAY

[wufwugy]

the funny thing is while watching this ep i got a sudden desire for a tyrion/missandei romance. there was a glance or a grasping of hands. it's not that im the world's biggest sucker for romance (okay, it is), but i feel like that would be an incredible match.

[baudib]

Missandei is all mine, bitch

[baudib]

are we supposed to think that Jorah infected Dany when he helped her down? They made a point of showing them touching hands. was it even the same arm?

[wufwugy]

she's yours! i'll take tyene.

[wufwugy]

are we supposed to think that Jorah infected Dany when he helped her down? They made a point of showing them touching hands. was it even the same arm?

i think so. i dont see much other reason for the obvious focus on hand grabbing and its supposed subsequent germ transferring.

i have zero predictions on what greyscale will mean though. i hate it as a device for the overall plot, but at the very least it could kick in the butts of dany and co. and strip away some of their plot armor

[baudib]

also the Unsullied are the most useless army of trained eunuchs ever

WTF at them getting owned by dumb slavemaster mercenaries

[wufwugy]

redshirts extraordinaire indeed.

the thing is that i have resigned to the fact that hollywood will ALWAYS get battle wrong. i want to just congratulate them on the times they make a fight fun and ignore the uncountable times they derpface it

granted, battle choreography is really hard and cost prohibitive im sure. i think they have to make the unsullied seem incompetent because it's far cheaper to have some dude stab them from behind than to film a unit adequately overrun.

[baudib]

I think the battle sequences in Vikings are by far the best I've seen on TV, with the caveat that no main character ever dies.

[baudib]

Dany needs better arena security obviously. first step is to stop and frisk people carrying harpy masks and large weapons.

[wufwugy]

hmmm i might have to watch that. i turned off the first ep 15 mintues into it becuaes of a crazy overuse of music

[wufwugy]

i think i realized i would love it if the ultimate victors are the walkers.

i mean, think about it, half of us have been saying how OP dany and her dragons are, and we've all got heroism and protagonism in the back of our minds. but what if they just fucking die and winter consumes all then game fucking over roll credits?

[baudib]

The show goes to great lengths to illustrate the fact that the Vikings were not some preternatural killers. They were physically very strong and trained for war at a young age but had very superior tactics and technology (longships).

[baudib]

i think i realized i would love it if the ultimate victors are the walkers.

i mean, think about it, half of us have been saying how OP dany and her dragons are, and we've all got heroism and protagonism in the back of our minds. but what if they just fucking die and winter consumes all then game fucking over roll credits?

that would be pretty epic but people would be so pissed

I think the most satisfying ending still involves Littlefinger winning

[baudib]

thinking about it, that would be kind of awesome

this past episode serves to illustrate how truly powerless monarchs are to save ones they love. Stannis can stop Melisandre from sacrificing his daughter; Dany can save Jorah, but they choose not to, bound by fate/destiny/whims of bloodthirsty mobs/gods