Game of Thrones TV Thread **HBO-Purists ONLY**

[baudib]

I just watched Ep2.

Comments:
-- I don't think Melisandre is quite scary enough.
-- Putting the pImp into place as King's Hand and a major player in the game of thrones is just really brilliant. It feels as if Cersei finally has a worthy or superior adversary. Ned Stark was loyal, wise and honorable...and completely overmatched in this game.
-- The absence of Ned, Robert, Khal Drogo and Jaime is obviously unavoidable but it's keenly felt. They are just terrific characters and the roles were well-cast; the Baratheon brothers are just poor substitutes.

[boost]

I just watched Ep2.

Comments:
-- I don't think Melisandre is quite scary enough.
-- Putting the pImp into place as King's Hand and a major player in the game of thrones is just really brilliant. It feels as if Cersei finally has a worthy or superior adversary. Ned Stark was loyal, wise and honorable...and completely overmatched in this game.
-- The absence of Ned, Robert, Khal Drogo and Jaime is obviously unavoidable but it's keenly felt. They are just terrific characters and the roles were well-cast; the Baratheon brothers are just poor substitutes.

Umm.. Jaime had a pretty big scene in e01, Renly hasn't been in s02 yet, and Stannis is fucking awesomely cast. His over the top nittery is so great. "Jaime Lannister, the king slayer, call him what he is.." "... Ser Jaime Lanister, whatever he may be, he is still a knight.."

I honestly don't miss those characters at all. When Ned and Robert died, I was sad at first, cuz they were awesome. Drogo.. he was really good, but just didn't click with me that much, so I didn't care all that much. But who cares, cuz now we have Gendry, Arya can play a bigger roll, Robb is getting more badass by the episode, we still have Tyrion, we have the Jean Reno look-a-like athiest, we have a fucking black person (plz let his right hand man be Adebesi, aka Mr. Ecko.. one time!)

The cast has changed, but it certainly hasn't gotten worse, and we will have to wait and see, but, despite some big losses, it may have gotten better.

[baudib]

I just don't care for Stannis as a character. As Ser Loras said, "He has the personality of a lobster." However, Stannis claiming the throne gives us Davos and Melisandre, who are very good/important characters.

[boost]

I just don't care for Stannis as a character. As Ser Loras said, "He has the personality of a lobster." However, [edited out as to not quote spoilers]

*ahem* lets be careful here. This is not specifically a book readers thread. Saying things like "this or that character is important" is vague, but very spoilerish. I'd really like to discuss the show here as well as on 2+2 (where the thread is pretty heavily modded), but if people are going to be doing this, then I'll be forced to stick to 2+2 and ignore this thread. If you really must talk about the books, then do so in spoiler tags or in white or whatever.

[baudib]

*ahem* lets be careful here. This is not specifically a book readers thread. Saying things like "this or that character is important" is vague, but very spoilerish. I'd really like to discuss the show here as well as on 2+2 (where the thread is pretty heavily modded), but if people are going to be doing this, then I'll be forced to stick to 2+2 and ignore this thread. If you really must talk about the books, then do so in spoiler tags or in white or whatever.

Sorry, didn't mean to ruin the thread for you. But I hardly think saying Davos and Melisandre are important characters is spoilish. Davos is Stannis' right-hand man and Melisandre is a crazy fire witch/sorceress. While a capable military man, Stannis is clearly not a great charismatic leader. In any event I think all of this is readily discernible from watching Ep. 2. (Also there are about 20 important characters in the story.)

[boost]

Sorry, didn't mean to ruin the thread for you. But I hardly think saying Davos and Melisandre are important characters is spoilish. Davos is Stannis' right-hand man and Melisandre is a crazy fire witch/sorceress. While a capable military man, Stannis is clearly not a great charismatic leader. In any event I think all of this is readily discernible from watching Ep. 2. (Also there are about 20 important characters in the story.)

*sigh*...

I don't think you're trying to be an ass, but I guess some people just can't understand what a spoiler is. Jory got a decent bit of screen time, maybe not as much as Davos**, but none the less he was Ned's right hand man. I was shocked when Jory died, and I would be shocked if Davos died anytime soon-- only I now know that he won't die anytime soon, because a book reader has unintentionally let me know he won't.

This thread is not modded nearly has heavy as the 2+2 one, but this is a lot smaller and tighter community. I should hope that would be enough to keep people from being insensitive dicks about spoilers, but maybe I'm wrong.


**but now that I think of it, he had about as much, if not more screen time than Theon...

[baudib]

-- only I now know that he won't die anytime soon, because a book reader has unintentionally let me know he won't.

This thread is not modded nearly has heavy as the 2+2 one, but this is a lot smaller and tighter community. I should hope that would be enough to keep people from being insensitive dicks about spoilers, but maybe I'm wrong.


**but now that I think of it, he had about as much, if not more screen time than Theon...

I don't think you know that AT ALL. It's pretty ridiculous for you to infer that given how many main characters have already been killed off.
Ned, Robert, Viserys, Drogo were good and important characters and didnt survive season 1

[wufwugy]

i miss robert

BOW BEFORE YOUR KING, YOU SHITS

[boost]

I don't think you know that AT ALL. It's pretty ridiculous for you to infer that given how many main characters have already been killed off.
Ned, Robert, Viserys, Drogo were good and important characters and didnt survive season 1

really man? Are you that dense? How about you let us know who aren't important characters? Would that be spoilerish? Can you not see the slippery slope right before you?

If the thread is going to avoid book spoilers (at least outside of spoiler tags), then we need to have a fairly stringent attitude in this thread towards such things. Otherwise this thread will suck for anyone who isn't a book reader. No one is asking you to bend over backwards. Just be careful about posting hints about the future of the show that you are privy to because you've read the books.

It's not even really about the things you posted, it's about the prevailing attitude of this thread. I just called you on it, because it's best to end it before it really begins. What you posted is indeed quite mild, but I still think it belongs in spoiler tags, or shouldn't be posted at all.

[a500lbgorilla]

Spoiler: Show

I like how Greyjoy practically fingerblasted his sister on the way to that castle

[JKDS]

This debate is silly. Slippery slopes are logical fallacies, and the characters have been in two episodes already (there have only been two so far).

"Important" is a relative term anyway, and the whole idea of arguing over someone saying that is funny. I mean, werent all named characters in season 1 important to some extent? All you're doing by arguing about this is alienating book readers from talking about the show.

[JKDS]

On an unrelated related note, I really love how they did Melisandre. I was worried they werent gonna be able to have her live up to my expectations, as I was fairly disappointed with how they portrayed Dany's dragons hatching and coming out of the fire.

[wufwugy]

i dunno, i feel like lots of spoilerish stuff is underrated in ways people don't understand. i know somebody who dies at a later date, and presumably an entire plotline with it, so im a bit less interested in that whole story now

i used to get mad just by watching previews or descriptions of what movies were about because they spoil so much. i dont even wanna know a movie has aliens in it so i can be excited when i find out about the aliens, for example

[bikes]

Are we really having this debate?

Anything someone who has read the books says can be considered spoilers. Which means when saying anything remotely close to 'spoilers' must either be said with the utmost care or put in the spoiler tags or in white. You can say all you want how XYZ aren't really spoilers because ABC but the fact of the matter is why take a chance? Don't ruin shit for everyone else imo. There are people itt who haven't read books and it's a dick move to ruin it for them.

[boost]

This debate is silly. Slippery slopes are logical fallacies, and the characters have been in two episodes already (there have only been two so far).

"Important" is a relative term anyway, and the whole idea of arguing over someone saying that is funny. I mean, werent all named characters in season 1 important to some extent? All you're doing by arguing about this is alienating book readers from talking about the show.

"slippery slope" is not a logical fallacy. It can be a logical fallacy, but it depends on how it is employed.

Creating an atmosphere where book readers feel free to say things like "I can't wait for you guys to see how X develops" or "X is important!", when from the viewpoint of a show watcher there is no overwhelming reason to believe X is any more important than Y, is to create an atmosphere where spoilers will be posted. baudib's use of "X is important" is fairly innocuous, but if it goes unchecked it serves to create this atmosphere. Hence, a slippery slope. There is no fallacy here.

Jory is a s01 named character. He was not really in anyway important. Hodor is a named character.

With regards to book readers being alienated... what in the fuck are you talking about? Please, if you are a book reader, join in... talk about the show, talk about the books in spoiler tags, talk about how the show relates/compares to the books in spoiler tags, but don't do the latter two in open posts. How is that complicated? How does that alienate anyone? How is having a thread that views hints and cues from book readers not alienating to non book readers? How can you not see that you have this completely backwards?

[JKDS]

We all agree that there shouldnt be spoilers, and no one wants to ruin the show/books for anyone. If that was the intent, it could be done very very easily. Therefore, those that read the books are already doing what they can not to spoil it for everyone else. They understand that ppl havent read the books, and also understand that these ppl want to talk about the show. If through their best efforts, however, someone is gonna jump down their throat for a silly thing then why bother even posting in the thread? What incentive does a book reader have to post here instead of just making another thread?

Again, important is relative anyway. Personally i dont like davos, hated reading of him, and dont think hes very important at all. Is that a spoiler? Surely some ppl already have opinions on him since hes been in two episodes now, some will think hes important some wont, some will like him some wont.

I see no reason why Melisandre wouldnt be considered important, considering she appears to be unpoisonable or at least magical as of s02e01 (which is fucking cool), and gave Stannis this firesword thing! Appears like shes important to me.

So again, i dont see the issue unless your slippery slope nonsense is true. However, I think its pretty clear at this point that your spoiler atmosphere isnt gonna happen now.

As to your counterexamples, IMO, jory was important. I believe his death by Jaime was an important event that changed Ned's way of handling the position of Hand of the King. Also, jory's death was also fucking cool. Hodor is Bran's legs at the moment, so that depends on what you think of bran as a character. I <3 Hodor. Hodor hodor hodor. Theres a picture in the "Pictures that make you lul" thread of valentines day cards with hodor on one just going "hodor hodor hodor". Is he important? Idk, i like him though.

[Renton]

I def think what baudib said about those characters being "important" is spoilerish.

I also think its kind of a bad idea for book readers to participate actively in discussions about the show with non-book readers. It's just too easy to have a certain omniscience about the story that might color your words in subtle or not so subtle ways. (I'm a book reader fwiw.)

[dranger7070]

Why dont we jusf make a separate thread for the.books.... -____-

I.dont oaricipate in this thread much because I KNOW my dumb ass would ip amd ruin something for someone.

[a500lbgorilla]

Get outta here ya dirty bookers!

[boost]

Why dont we jusf make a separate thread for the.books.... -____-

I.dont oaricipate in this thread much because I KNOW my dumb ass would ip amd ruin something for someone.

Thanks, I appreciate the discretion.

Get outta here ya dirty bookers!

cool, thanks for making two threads. seems like the most reasonable way to handle this.

[JKDS]

I havent seen episode two yet, but official version airs for me in 1 hour! I excited!

[wufwugy]

ya so inm drunk wihch means im possed off cuz im always pissed when drukn and i almost read all GoT spilers cuz thats what drunkos do but instead i listen to music lowd and think stuff that shouldnt be thot

[boost]

ya, if you're gonna spoiler yourself, do it sober. You'll hate drunk you if you do it when you're drunk.

[bikes]

i hate how since 02 was leaked i had nothing to watch on sunday

[boost]

i hate how since 02 was leaked i had nothing to watch on sunday

Watch it again? If I wasn't back visiting home with a lot of shit to do, I'd watch it for the fifth time...

[a500lbgorilla]

What I don't understand about bookers is how they don't manufacture spoilers for any HBO purists who might be listening in.

Spoiler: Show

The Queen Reagent tosses Tyrion to his death!

Spoiler: Show

John Snow has a bastard son who claims the throne of the North after killing King Rob Stark

Spoiler: Show

Wufwugy elected MVP of mankind.

[a500lbgorilla]

cool, thanks for making two threads. seems like the most reasonable way to handle this.

Also, it's important to note that as mod I had no hand in any of this.

[bikes]

So who else is really excited?

[wufwugy]

it's been two weeks, basically a lifetime

[lolzzz_321]

So who else is really excited?

[bikes]

E3 Spoilers.


I really liked Tyrion's montage and Yoren's swan song.

[boost]

it's 3am and I almost just clicked play to watch e03 again after just finishing it. But I need sleep...

Anyways, this show is just unbelievably good. I have to say though, out of all the story arcs, I'm most glued to my seat when we are following Arya and Gendry. Gendry isn't going to die, and I don't think either of them will return to King's Landing. Yet, I can't really figure out how that works out. But I'd guess that the nicer of the three in the burning cage will have something to do with it.. he's got too many lines and too much screen time to not be important.

[Renton]

Annoying that each episode only hits 75% of the main characters. No Stannis or Daenerys tonight... And they keep introducing new people to boot. Has there ever been a series with such a large cast?

[a500lbgorilla]

Annoying that each episode only hits 75% of the main characters. No Stannis or Daenerys tonight... And they keep introducing new people to boot. Has there ever been a series with such a large cast?

Probably 15% of the current cast survives to the end of season 4.

[a500lbgorilla]

I like the young Baratheon king. Him + Rob Stark as the two kings south of the wall would be ideal, imo.

Also, with Tyrion's little play to find out who he can trust, It'd be sweet if the eunuch figured out the play and set up the old man. Fewer advisors on the small counsel the better and he prob has much more ammunition against Little Finger than he does the old man.

[dranger7070]

I need to download these. Haven't watched any of season 2 yet.

[boost]

I like the young Baratheon king. Him + Rob Stark as the two kings south of the wall would be ideal, imo.

Also, with Tyrion's little play to find out who he can trust, It'd be sweet if the eunuch figured out the play and set up the old man. Fewer advisors on the small counsel the better and he prob has much more ammunition against Little Finger than he does the old man.

This would indeed be interesting, but I don't think it's the case. It just doesn't seem to jive with the writing. I think we saw a "clean win" by Tyrion... we are supposed to feel a certain way about how he has solidified his power base. Sure, he won't hold that power for forever, but I don't think that we will look back later and see that he never really had it. Varys' riddle seemed to me to be him swearing (temporary) fealty to Tyrion, because he respects the play. The scene makes far less sense if Varys orchestrated it all.

[wufwugy]

i cant say i like the story of lf being in love with cat

[boost]

i cant say i like the story of lf being in love with cat

wait, what? Hasn't that been the case all along?

Also, I think that it may have been love once, but now it's more of a sick obsession. I don't think we are supposed to get butterflies in our stomach and relate to LF in the way he feels about Cat...

[wufwugy]

i just dont like it as a part of the story. it's not entirely plausible either. it's plausible enough, i guess, but i just don't like it, never did.

it just doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of the show. logistically, a lot of the relationships in this show are just dumb. like how exactly were robert and ned best buds? they kinda couldnt be given they had to have spent almost all of their time not around each other. it's not like the starks and baratheons are next door neighbors. and then they're both buds with jon arryn, who is from an even different part of the seven kingdoms?

im just not buying a lot of this, but ultimately i dont care. expect for lf being infatuated with cat. it's just kinda lame, especially since she looks like she could be his mother

[boost]

i just dont like it as a part of the story. it's not entirely plausible either. it's plausible enough, i guess, but i just don't like it, never did.

it just doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of the show. logistically, a lot of the relationships in this show are just dumb. like how exactly were robert and ned best buds? they kinda couldnt be given they had to have spent almost all of their time not around each other. it's not like the starks and baratheons are next door neighbors. and then they're both buds with jon arryn, who is from an even different part of the seven kingdoms?

im just not buying a lot of this, but ultimately i dont care. expect for lf being infatuated with cat. it's just kinda lame, especially since she looks like she could be his mother

Ya, I thought about the whole Aryn/Ned/Robert dynamic as well. I'm not really sure what to make of it. They did all fight the war together, and maybe that was where the bond was truly forged. They were brother's in law, so they could have had plenty of time before the war to get acquainted.

Idk, doesn't seem all that implausible to me. But I do agree that some explaining would help its believability.

[bikes]

they were raised by jon arryn. this was said repeatedly in s1.

catlyn and littlefinger were also raised together as littlefinger was a ward of lord tully. also said a few times in s1

[wufwugy]

I recall them saying things like that, but it doesn't make too much sense. Why was a Stark of Winterfell raised by the Warden of the East? And why also Robert Baratheon? It doesn't make much sense when the authors suggest some strong cultural and regional histories of the characters, but then also say they were super close buddies

The storytelling has these characters in two places at once, or at least that's the impression of it. It certainly appears that GRRM has some logistics problems. One example would be that the Greyjoys are any sort of threat to large inland nations

[bikes]

would assume it's to build relationships just like it was back in feudal europe.

greyjoy's aren't a threat to any inland nations, which is why they waited until all of the north went south to strike.

[BennyLaRue]

I recall them saying things like that, but it doesn't make too much sense. Why was a Stark of Winterfell raised by the Warden of the East? And why also Robert Baratheon?

A couple of different but necessary reasons in times of feudal warfare:

1) Keep some heirs with your buddies in case your shit gets wiped out.
2) As a guarantee of an otherwise shaky truce, ie. send me your kid as a preventative measure against you attacking me. In this, the kid is sort of a hostage. Theon would be classified in this category, although the Starks were much kinder to him than usual.

[wufwugy]

I can see that, I just don't see it in the way this story is being told

It's more of a personal nittery thing because I don't think it's being explained well across the board, and specifically, the LF/Cat thing just seems dumb. The apparent connection between them is just something that was said about the past that has to be assumed is important, and she looks like his mom. At the very least, Cat would need to be younger for me to believe the story

Also, I don't really like LF's story, as it doesn't make too much sense to me, as well as I don't like his character's motivations WRT things like being abysmally in love with this chick from when he was a boy, even after everything is different many years later

I just don't like that whole storyline. I feel like the books may have expressed them better, but in the show it's just "they said it so now we have to believe it's relevant"

Whatever, I'm being kinda lame about this. Just from the very beginning I looked at Carcetti then at a chick who looks like his mom and thought him being in love with her was stupid, at least as far as to the degree the show has described it

[dranger7070]

Don't think these classify as spoilers but just in case in white below:

About the Cat/LF love thing: LF was raised as a ward (like Theon w/ the Starks) with the Tully's (Cat's family) and they were all the same age. he fell in love/became obsessed, etc and this is carrying over to her daughter now because she looks like her and he's a pedobear! (Pedobear part is joke.)

To clarify the Robert/Ned/Jon thing: In the books it explains that Ned was a ward as a child with Robert in some castle in the south. Stormsomethingorother was the name of it I think. They grew up together and Jon was like a father figure/uncle whatever to them when he was there. Can't remember how much he was actually there though being he was Warden of the East.

[a500lbgorilla]

Get out of here you dirty booker!

[boost]

dranger, it's pretty fucking simple. If your sentence can be prefaced with "In the books" then at the very least it belongs in spoiler tags, and better yet just post it in the book thread. I did not highlight what is in white, and the backstory you provided is not really a big deal, and I can't see how it could possibly spoil anything, but still, it just doesn't belong here. There is a thread for book readers now. Don't post in here trying to guide "us poor nonbook readers." We watch the show, and we are fine with just watching the show.

[wufwugy]

highlighted what dranger said, and it seems you put in a plot development that is yet to come in the show