Game of Thrones TV Thread **HBO-Purists ONLY**

[JKDS]

Renly got what was coming to him, that bastard left my 'two legged spoiler' to die!

[wufwugy]

i wish they would show us more about rickon. he's clearly an important character, but it seems we wont know why for some time.

he's always so dark and angry. gotta be professor xavier like his brother, and probably the evil one or the one who sees bad stuff or something

[Jack Sawyer]

Fuck that little sadistic asshole king, I want to see his head roll by Tyrion's right hand man

[a500lbgorilla]

Still can't believe Renly's dead. Lady Stark is rolling deep though now with that butch bodyguard. Bitch can swing a sword.

[wufwugy]

Renly was too loved to live.

Ned was the first guy who was loved who had lots of power, he died shortly thereafter. Then Renly, and soon to be Robb, I guess. Being at war will keep Robb alive IMO, but shortly after he would become a loved king in relative peacetime, GRRM will have his head

[boost]

I love how Brann's dream foreshadows something we already know, yet the characters do not. This sort of foreshadowing, where the audience/reader is in on it is much underused imo.

[wufwugy]

Something I really dislike is how irrational people seem to be. I don't mean that they make dumb decisions, but that a lot of their actions are implausible for being humans. What I'm getting at is something that was fucking rampant in Lost, isn't so bad in GoT, but I did just notice it in the last ep especially

Basically, when absolutely amazing and crazy things happen, the characters do not react accordingly. They're completely desensitized. My guess is it's because the writers are so immersed in the world they've created, that they forget that these sorts of things are new for the characters

Anyways, a good example of this is Cat's and Brienne's reaction to seeing a wraith. That thing was a motherfucking wraith. A magic monster, a demon, something sent by the gods or evil forces or something absolutely insane that they were raised to believe wasn't even real. This type of experience would completely shatter some modes of thought for virtually everybody. I mean, we live in a world where drunks see a faint light in the distance and think it's a fucking UFO. But if that sorta thing actually happened, and was so blunt about it, most couldn't contain themselves

I'm not saying they would start acting crazy (a lot would), but they would at least address it as if it is what it is. But instead, the entire rest of the episode was as if Cat and Brienne were perturbed in no way by seeing this earth-shattering reality. A real-life wraith in their world would have completely dominated their thoughts, they would be freaking out about demons and praying to their gods and all that shit. But instead they did none of that. It was as if the wraith being what it was vanished from their minds

Lost did this like fucking crazy FWIW, and it irritated the shit out of me. It really allows writers to take their stories to shit places when they don't maintain realistic consistency of their characters and world. Just imagine how you would be thinking if you saw a six foot tall spider run down the street; because that's equally as unreal and crazy a thing to happen as Cat and Brienne seeing a fucking demon-ghost kill Renly

At the very least, Davos acknowledged that there is "something bad" about the red woman, but that's still not too plausible. It works in a way because Stannis is so adamant about not hearing any about it, so Davos has to be really diplomatic. But the audience still isn't given the impression that Davos is thinking OMG IT'S A FUCKING DEMON SPAWN IN A WORLD WHERE DEMONS ARENT SUPPOSED TO BE REAL AND IT'S TAKING OVER

These are all highly religious people. Imagine what would happen at church if a puff of black smoke formed into a human, murdered the preacher, then vanished in front of everybody. All bets would be off. Everybody who witnessed that would be going fucking crazy. Not behaviorally so much as the focus of their thoughts

[Renton]

Davos was very freaked out by the shadow. I agree with you about Brienne and Cat though.

[boost]

Also, Cat can CSI the shit outta that abandoned tower, yet she can't be like "it must have something to do with that evil looking witch lady who seems to hold a lot of sway with Stannis!" Idk, it just seemed like there were a few missing lines of dialogue that would have made that sequence far more fluid and "realistic."

[boost]

now that I think about it though.. "it looked like Stannis" "I don't know.. it just looked like smoke in the shape of a man.."-- This exchange seemed like they were both in a bit of shock, and their brains were trying to make any sense of it that they could. It's just that there wasn't a good transition into them swearing oaths to each other.

[wufwugy]

Also, Cat can CSI the shit outta that abandoned tower...

Yeah they get away with a lot of this, actually. Like when Margaery said Brienne killed Renly, Loras says he doesn't believe it. But the reality is Brienne and Cat are both by far the most likely suspects, so it's kinda silly to have Loras so adamantly blow it off his shoulder. But it's all in the name of moving the story in the direction GRRM wants, I guess....

The production being fantastic, most aspects of the writing and directing being fantastic, and the whole fantasy thing allows them to get away with a lot of these sort of mistakes. It's not like I could do better though

FWIW, the lore is really good. Better than LOTR, better than the stuff I used to read like Forgotten Realms and Dragon Lance

[boost]

I think that the Loras declaring Brienne's innocence for apparently no reason can be explained by there simply not being enough screen time to adequately show why he would feel this way. It was probably far more sensible in the books, and the writers for the show were simply forced to gloss over this fairly minor detail so that the important stuff could be shown and Loras and Marge can be written in the same direction that GRRM had them going.

btw, the speculation on TVWOP can be really good, but the general tone over there is unbelievably annoying. I don't mind all the "Shirtless Gendry, oh my!!!" comments, that's cool... but the complaints about violence/rape/w/e are just absurd. It's a feudal fantasy world. Raping and pillaging and sadistic boy kings are par for the course. If it really bothers you that much, you can go watch Camelot on Showtime (I think it was canceled). I'm sure it's a lot more family friendly.. and also a lot shittier of a show.

Another example: they all seem to think that the four man ranger black ops squad is a horrible idea. No real explanation is given nor asked for when people say this. I really can't figure out why they think it's a bad idea. It's like they are really good at reverse engineering fiction, yet they are really bad at understanding general concepts about warfare and whatnot.

[wufwugy]

I think that the Loras declaring Brienne's innocence for apparently no reason can be explained by there simply not being enough screen time to adequately show why he would feel this way. It was probably far more sensible in the books, and the writers for the show were simply forced to gloss over this fairly minor detail so that the important stuff could be shown and Loras and Marge can be written in the same direction that GRRM had them going.

btw, the speculation on TVWOP can be really good, but the general tone over there is unbelievably annoying. I don't mind all the "Shirtless Gendry, oh my!!!" comments, that's cool... but the complaints about violence/rape/w/e are just absurd. It's a feudal fantasy world. Raping and pillaging and sadistic boy kings are par for the course. If it really bothers you that much, you can go watch Camelot on Showtime (I think it was canceled). I'm sure it's a lot more family friendly.. and also a lot shittier of a show.

Another example: they all seem to think that the four man ranger black ops squad is a horrible idea. No real explanation is given nor asked for when people say this. I really can't figure out why they think it's a bad idea. It's like they are really good at reverse engineering fiction, yet they are really bad at understanding general concepts about warfare and whatnot.

I think Cat is way more implicated than Brienne anyways. But yeah, I assume there's more in the book as well

As for TWoP, I agree. That thread is hard as shit to read. It's pretty much because they're mostly women (mothers). You find them get really uptight when characters like Jon Snow are put into scenarios where they could get hurt

I honestly haven't even read much of that thread for season 2, but did a lot for season 1. It's hard enough to go through reading single lines on 2p2. It's gonna sound hypocritical, but I don't wanna read their essays

Also, I was turned off a wee bit from that thread last season due to some of their speculations being really spot on, so I felt a little spoiled when they happened. Similar happened on 2p2 about the last few eps of Breaking Bad. Not a BB thread, so not talking about that, but 2p2 did get some legit speculations right, and since I sorta expected them to happen, when they did, I was kinda meh about it all


BTW, to be clear, I'm pretty sure the reason they don't like the 4 man black ops is cuz theyre mothers and dont want Jonny to get hurt. They talked all about that stuff last season, so it's probably implied by now.

[wufwugy]

Going over the thread, see this post. Example of how legit their speculations are. They get most things wrong, but a good chunk of what happens can be found within their thoughts

Completely Unspoiled Speculation - TWoP Forums - Page 187

I've questioned myself that they might be bookreaders, but I really don't think they are. The level of dedication it would take to pull off trolling that thread would be astronomical IMO

[Juked07]

Going over the thread, see this post. Example of how legit their speculations are. They get most things wrong, but a good chunk of what happens can be found within their thoughts

Completely Unspoiled Speculation - TWoP Forums - Page 187

I've questioned myself that they might be bookreaders, but I really don't think they are. The level of dedication it would take to pull off trolling that thread would be astronomical IMO

I've enjoyed following this thread so far.. But I think following that link just got me spoiled by a book reader. You're probably underestimating the dedication of trolls.

As a one off example.. I frequent a forum in which years ago, a troll created several fictitious characters, eventually married one of them, survived her death under mysterious circumstances, forum members became generally convinced that he murdered her, the police even did a full blown investigation before discovering that his "wife" never existed.

Trolls love to troll, and they'll work hard at it. If you're serious about quarantining yourself from book spoilers I'd stay away from that link.

[boost]

I've enjoyed following this thread so far.. But I think following that link just got me spoiled by a book reader. You're probably underestimating the dedication of trolls.

As a one off example.. I frequent a forum in which years ago, a troll created several fictitious characters, eventually married one of them, survived her death under mysterious circumstances, forum members became generally convinced that he murdered her, the police even did a full blown investigation before discovering that his "wife" never existed.

Trolls love to troll, and they'll work hard at it. If you're serious about quarantining yourself from book spoilers I'd stay away from that link.

meh, I see what you're saying, but if you're not going to do a complete GoT blackout to avoid spoilers, then I think this thread, the 2p2 thread, and the TVWOP (should it be TVWP?) thread are the safest places to discuss the show.

[wufwugy]

I've enjoyed following this thread so far.. But I think following that link just got me spoiled by a book reader. You're probably underestimating the dedication of trolls.

As a one off example.. I frequent a forum in which years ago, a troll created several fictitious characters, eventually married one of them, survived her death under mysterious circumstances, forum members became generally convinced that he murdered her, the police even did a full blown investigation before discovering that his "wife" never existed.

Trolls love to troll, and they'll work hard at it. If you're serious about quarantining yourself from book spoilers I'd stay away from that link.

That's some legit trolling

As for the thread, I think that while there may be some trolls in there, they're not distinguishable due to the nature of what that would take. They're all wrong on most things, so even if a troll is spoiling stuff, you still wouldn't know it because of all the chaff added to the posts

A few random points for my case: a few speculations I have made up have become true, 2p2 figured out one of the major plot points to Breaking Bad, I have posted a lot of the speculations that came out of the TWoP thread on 2p2 where Dids claimed that no big spoilers have been dropped (so it implies most/all of that stuff is wrong)

As for that specific post, I don't really even think that could be a troll. The details and logics are just too much. Like him saying that everybody who ate an apple in the previous ep would die. That wouldn't have been in the book, but if he was going to book-spoil on those three people dying, he somehow came up with that connection?

Then I think most of his other points for future speculations are simply wrong, but no need to go into detail

I do, however, get your feeling. As I have felt quite spoiled by some speculations. There *could* be trolls on there, but I don't think that guy is one of them (if you would like to discuss why in detail, I could), trolling in that thread is gonna be really hard due to it being super modded, and when the trolling does happen, it is bogged down by the person being forced to also get lots of stuff wrong. Personally, I don't follow each poster, so I only get a generalization of some of what is said in that thread, so if I get "spoiled" it's more along the lines of randomness. Anyways, I don't think there are trolls on there, but I could be wrong

[wufwugy]

meh, I see what you're saying, but if you're not going to do a complete GoT blackout to avoid spoilers, then I think this thread, the 2p2 thread, and the TVWOP (should it be TVWP?) thread are the safest places to discuss the show.

Television (T) Without (Wo) Pity (P) IMO

That's what some dude called it when he referenced it in one of the spoilernit discussions from last year in the 2p2 thread

[boost]

if without gets a lower case "O", then television definitely is getting at least a lowercase "V" if not an uppercase one.

/acronymnittery

[wufwugy]

Just for shits and giggles, I'll go down that guy's post. I do not think he's a bookreader at all

1. Everyone seen eating fruit last episode is killed by mouth: Renly (Smokebaby), whore (scepter), blond torturer (rat).

He got this right, but not entirely. "By mouth" reads as a very specific sort of symbolism, which is the sort of reads he seems to make, and it didn't happen

2. Brienne fights the Smokebaby but can't stop it.

Didn't happen

3. Smokebaby kills Renly covertly (e.g. suffocation while sleeping) so Stannis can step in with apparently clean hands.

Didn't happen

4. A Man Has A Thirst returns to help Arya. He's a member of The Brotherhood.

Anybody who's into figuring out symbolism and how stories work would have guessed that A Man Has A Thirst guy was going to become a bigger character. Relation to The Brotherhood and helping Arya is a pretty logical place to go. Personally, I knew he was a legit character because I looked at the cast on HBO. FYI, last year, TWoP thought the "hooded dude in the cage" (whom this guy turned out to be) was Ser Barristan or a couple others I don't remember

5. Tyrion finds a good use for the laxative Pycelle gave him episode before last and Joffrey gets unclogged.

Didn't happen, not gonna happen. Pycelle wouldn't have poisoned Tyrion because his role as ear was more important, so the vial isn't secretly not laxative. And Tyrion wouldn't dare give Joffrey the shits; waaaaaaay too much risk there in getting it done, hoping Teh Joff doesn't get super mad, etc

6. Stannis becomes evil and Davos must turn on him.

Could happen, but I doubt it. The magic doesn't work that way. Also, it's the poster's standard line of looking to a few pieces of potential foreshadowing. Personally, I have Davos betraying Stannis due to his son dying by fire like Melisandre alluded to. But overall, it looks even more likely that Davos WILL NOT betray Stannis. That's one of GRRM's things i.e. his honorable men are really fucking honorable. Ned would not break, Jorah is loyal to the core, and Davos will be loyal to the core IMO

7. Bronn betrays Tyrion for money.

It's almost too obvious to happen, and I suspect it won't. Who's richer than Tyrion? Who treats Bronn better than Tyrion? I think the superficial look at Bronn is that he could betray Tyrion, but the deeper look is that it would be next to impossible for him to do so

8. Sam's courage is tested and he sacrifices himself to save Jon.

I think this line looks really easy to figure out from the standard perspective, but that they might not be playing Sam like that. This is the sort of character development that happens in Hollywood comedies, but GRRM doesn't play that way, it seems. Something like this could happen though, but I'm not sure it involves "saving Jon" GRRM has yet to play a line that simplistic and standard

9. Lord Commander Mormont is killed by a White Walker.

Not this season he ain't. Or maybe he will at the very end. He does have to die because he gave the special sword to Jon and eventually Jorah is gonna have to see the hilt, and realize that his late father trusted Jon (which will forge an eventual Dany/Snow alliance/marriage IMO). Maybe Mormont does die this season, but my guess for why the poster thinks so is because of the foreshadowing of Mormont giving Jon lessons on how to lead. He likes that sort of foreshadowing speculation

10. Littlefinger loses his head.

Naw he's sticking around. Who's gonna kill him? Teh Joff is probably the only one, but I bet he wouldn't dare. LF is gonna be brokering an alliance between the Tyrells and Lannisters while secretly looking to broker a marriage with Margaery for himself. LF is in this for the long haul. For a while I thought he was a goner cuz some of his arcs completed, but he's picking up so many more important roles. Also, he's got his own house sigil; that means he's super important. Just think on that, why would GRRM even mention he's got his own sigil (more than once) if he wasn't keeping him around for big things?

[baudib]

FWIW, the lore is really good. Better than LOTR, better than the stuff I used to read like Forgotten Realms and Dragon Lance

I don't disagree with you, but tell me why you think it's superior to, say, Tolkien.

[wufwugy]

I don't disagree with you, but tell me why you think it's superior to, say, Tolkien.

I read both The Hobbit and the first two hundred pages of Fellowship twice. I couldn't get much further than that, but did watch the movies several times

My read on JRRT was that the lore was too much of a dichotomy. It was great for its time, for sure. Was very original in some ways, but the dichotomy of good vs evil is simply inferior to a more evolved view of the world. In some ways, that dichotomy is fun, but I'm honestly not sure if I can ever get behind it again. When I was a kid, sure I thought it was legit, but that dichotomy just doesn't play that well anymore. It truly never did, only to xtians and the like did it seem to become a thing. The Wire (new, and some of the best work) is a Greek Tragedy (old, and based in reality), after all. Only in our religious imaginations does the dark black of evil fight the bright light of good

On a different level, I think the play of steel, brain, and brawns vs magic is very good. Fantasies usually are much more blunt about their magic and it tends to dominate, but GoT uses it in very limited fashion and is quite mystical about it. For example: the Mother of Dragons is near death of starvation in a desert, while on the other end of the world, a boy dreams through the eyes of his pet. This is much more refined a lore than guys who shoot fireballs after learning a spell.

On a personal level, I like the humanness. No elves, no dwarves, just people being people. WRT my experiences in fantasy, this is a novel concept.

I also like the subtlety. It seems you never truly know what's going on, and I suspect we won't know until the end, and even then may not. In the books I read, the agenda, heroes, villains, and magics were all clear. But in GoT, they're not. Granted, I haven't read anything since maybe the 12th Drizzt book and the Rose of the Prophet trilogy; so it's been over a decade, and stuff may be more evolved now.

[wufwugy]

Davos was very freaked out by the shadow. I agree with you about Brienne and Cat though.

Rewatched the ep, I agree that his reactions were right. They didn't give him much time to form those thoughts for the audience as when it first happened, the ep ended, then when he was trying to tell Stannis he had to tread very lightly

[wufwugy]

Granted, it is "Ice and Fire", so that suggests GRRM is using the regular good vs evil dichotomy. But it's also "The Song of", which suggests it's not a black and white dichotomy, but a colorful spectrum

So far, the story is suggesting there are a whole lot of ways for it to not be black and white

[JKDS]

Well...theres certainly wights

Bum dum tssh



edit: This could be taken as a response to all of wufs posts...but it was just in response to his last one.

[wufwugy]

That there's some play between LF and Margaery is the most obvious thing I've ever seen. She wants to be "the queen", he wants to be ruler of all. The Tyrells and Lannisters will find common ground against Stannis, then eventually LF and Margaery will marry. Who else is Margaery gonna try to become "the queen" with?

Also must say I'm not a fan of the "sexual tension" they briefly hinted at between Jorah and Dany. I don't know what GRRM was trying to write in their relationship, it's hard to do either way, but the show would be better off just leaving out any semblance of Jorah being anything other than super loyal to her as his queen (obv because he feels he must redeem himself for his disloyalties in his past). Could also be that it's just hard to read what's really going on with Dany. For example, they hit on things like Dany's Dothrakiness clashing with her moving up in the world (the tension in the scene with her servants about the dresses and shit, as well as the scene about stealing), but it seems to almost be a throwaway point for the show. I fear that Qarth itself is a throwaway region, and after Dany leaves it, GoT leaves it behind. It seems that could happen with Dany trusting Jorah to get a ship and stuff.

And we don't really even know what happened in that scene. Why did Dany trust Jorah? That was a huuuuuge decision, and we don't quite know what motivations were behind her making it. Does she think he's right, does she not trust any other than him, does she love him, or did GRRM merely throwaway this part of the story in order to get closer to Westeros?

[lolzzz_321]

Amazon.com: A Game of Thrones: The Graphic Novel: Volume One (9780440423218): Daniel Abraham, George R.R. Martin: Books

[wufwugy]

lol boost all over TWoP they sign themselves as TWoP

Also I fucking hate Theon. If he's actually betraying the Starks, I hate hate hate him. I don't think somebody with a soul would act the way he has. Betrayal is one thing, but betrayal so easily is another

[wufwugy]

A Man is pretty awesome, but I really hate that it reeeeeaaally looks like they're gonna have Arya have A Man kill Tywin. The first was Tickler, second will be the dude with Needle, then third Tywin. Everything about that plot rubs me the wrong way, also I think Tywin is a pretty great character. He's a rare breed of an actual thoughtful man who also wields his power with force

Loras is gonna be a big character. Who was behind the Renly story? It was Loras, he was the one initially telling Renly what was up. Loras was the one put up against Gregor, he was the one the scene with Renly's dead body revolved around. I think we're not seeing it yet, but Loras is a pretty important character

The scene where Cersei says "So clever with your schemes and your plots", then Tyrion says "Schemes and plots are the same thing" was so Arrested Development

[wufwugy]

I don't disagree with you, but tell me why you think it's superior to, say, Tolkien.

In addition, masked lady said, "dragons are fire made flesh"

That is lore to depths that others never seem to hit. Not only is it using dragons as a metaphor, but Danaerys herself is "fire made flesh" in her inability for her flesh to not be burned by fire

The lore is much more pervasive and subtle. Instead of a powerful wizard who casts ice storms, winter itself bears the magic

[boost]

A Man is pretty awesome, but I really hate that it reeeeeaaally looks like they're gonna have Arya have A Man kill Tywin. The first was Tickler, second will be the dude with Needle, then third Tywin. Everything about that plot rubs me the wrong way, also I think Tywin is a pretty great character. He's a rare breed of an actual thoughtful man who also wields his power with force

Loras is gonna be a big character. Who was behind the Renly story? It was Loras, he was the one initially telling Renly what was up. Loras was the one put up against Gregor, he was the one the scene with Renly's dead body revolved around. I think we're not seeing it yet, but Loras is a pretty important character

The scene where Cersei says "So clever with your schemes and your plots", then Tyrion says "Schemes and plots are the same thing" was so Arrested Development

I hate Theon haters. He's such an awesome character. Not awesome in the typical way... but awesome in the same way that The Hound is awesome. Also, unlike all those twats on TWoP, I love everything Greyjoy.

As for A Man.. I think it will be Poliver, then The Mountain. I could be wrong, and I have no solid reason to think anything different, but I just don't think Tywin is going to get got yet, and not by A Man. But if that is how things went down, I wouldn't hate it, because Tywin is a great character, and A Man is rising to be one, so A Man would be elevated to greatness by killing greatness.

Re: Loras-- Ya, I hope so, he's an interesting character and that actor rivals Tywin in the way he commands the screen imo. Every scene he is in, he makes a really big impression.

[boost]

something little I just noticed... when the guy is soap boxing in the streets, talking shit about Joffrey, you can see Lannister men up on the wall looking on and doing nothing. It's easy to miss, but quite an impressive bit of detail added in.

Also, "She's a sweet innocent girl, I don't blame her at all for you." was a clutch comeback to her blaming him for their mother's death in the previous episode. I like how the writing references something from another episode which is not a key plot point. With most TV viewers being complete droolers, it's quite rare.

[wufwugy]

Theon is a great character, but I hate who he is.

Actually, you're right about Poliver then The Mountain (if Poliver is the guy with Needle). I forgot about Mountain, but that's probably where they're gonna go. I just really hate killing Tywin like that. There is soooooo much for his character to do that if I were GRRM, I would have written in a different plotline than having him die to A Man. My main reasoning for A Man gonna be killing Tywin had to do with that ballin scene of "anybody can be killed". The Arya/Tywin story is way too good to allow it to end like that though. Things like she'll be his cupbearer for quite some time, he'll probably be promoting her too (because he's clearly smart and his behavior implies that he's finding reason to think she's smart, or at least "of use" and even that he thinks she's hiding something important), then that whole dynamic could be a huge story. So A Man shouldn't be asked to kill Tywin. It would be really stupid of Arya anyways, since he's her sugar daddy. On the flip side, it could be really smart of Arya since killing Tywin could save the North/her family/etc

I feel like Myrcella is actually going to Dorne, and may be used to get the Martels on the Lannisters side. Would be very interesting to see Stannis sandwiched, since Dorne is below him in latitude. I still have Stannis/Melisandre taking over thoughout the series, then Dany and her dragons being viewed as saviors by the audience when they invade. If this is true, I wouldn't be surprised if Dany begins to come off wanting to invade, then the audience has find out if she'll decide to come around to it and thus be the unwitting hero. Not sure how this dynamic plays with Winter though. There are several different plots converging, and only a few can come out alive. So in that sense, it could only be Dany vs Winter, not Melisandre vs Winter. So if Winter comes soon enough, it means Stannis/Melisandre get quashed somewhat soon, probably either by Winter itself or Dany. The final product of this whole storyline (as we know it) has to be Dragons vs Winter though.

It's possible that Tyrion and the wildfire will be able to hold off Stannis and Melisadre, but I honestly do not see any magic people losing to non-magic people for a long time. The story will soon become Lannister vs Stannis and Stark vs Greyjoy, instead of the current Stark vs Lannister. Greyjoy is losing to Stark for sure, but in trying to figure out who loses in Stannis vs Lannister, I have a hard time seeing Lannister win (unless it's a HUGE fucking thing and they end up marginalizing how the story presents Melisandre as extremely powerful). And I don't know where they can go if they lose, would be sick as fuck if they all died, except Tyrion (and hopefully Bronn), who is required to Take the Black or something.

I also think that Stannis is using Melisandre. I think he knows what she's up to, that she's trying to use him, but he's actually using her. The whole him being too in love to see things clearly is almost a little too simplistic. I think even Davos doesn't have a clue that Stannis is playing her.


But then another look at Melisandre is that she's just a prop to get the story going. I would write her as completely foreign in every way (almost like she's the prophet/avatar of a god from a different planet), which would make her extremely powerful and able to do all sorts of sick and cunning shit (like possess people and make her own sort of army, which is where I thought they were going when the wraith showed up). But she's probably just a piece of magic that isn't super powerful, and gets crushed when the jig is up

[Penneywize]

Interesting read wuf, I wanted to comment on your thoughts on the Qarth story arc.

It seems to me that there is pretty much no way this whole Qarth portion of the storyline ends up finishing quickly / being of little consequence. I also am not yet convinced that Dany is definitely not going to marry the big wealthy black dude of the 13; her line "I look forward to meeting him" re. the potential captain of the 'one ship' that would take her to Westeros, was somewhat unconvincing.

Also there are a few budding plotlines taking place there; what is the deal with the hall of the undying? You may also note that the character that Dany was speaking with in the town square before she was distracted by her dothraki stealing shit was no bit actor; I'd have to look again to make sure though. If correct, it seems somewhat of a waste to use an actor of that caliber as pretty much a one-line background type character, and I'd have to assume more will happen with her.

And, if it needs to be pointed out, I doubt the producers would go to such lengths as to include Qarth in the opening credits sequence if the Dany storyline was only going to be there in passing.

That's all. Looking forward to Sunday!

[d0zer]

Yeah fuck Theon that sister-feeling up, entitled brat. It's great to see his people laugh at his attempts to 'lead' them. And as much as I hate the Lannister family (minus the dwarf ofc), Tywin is a fucking man and I don't wanna see him go out this easily.

[wufwugy]

hey dranger that was a blatant spoiler, thanks

[d0zer]

yeah I guess that was a spoiler...DELETED.

[Penneywize]

fucking dranger FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

[wufwugy]

Interesting read wuf, I wanted to comment on your thoughts on the Qarth story arc.

It seems to me that there is pretty much no way this whole Qarth portion of the storyline ends up finishing quickly / being of little consequence. I also am not yet convinced that Dany is definitely not going to marry the big wealthy black dude of the 13; her line "I look forward to meeting him" re. the potential captain of the 'one ship' that would take her to Westeros, was somewhat unconvincing.

I read it differently. I believe Dany loves Jorah, but doesn't realize it. Her exclaiming "What do you want!?" was a bombshell of tension of the more intimate variety. If it wasn't, the actors and directors played it wrong. I think that Dany was taken aback at his claims of her having a good heart, then she decided to trust his opinion fully. This is what the acting in that scene looked like to me. There were some serious tells on Dany's part, just not sure exactly what she was trying to give off.

Also there are a few budding plotlines taking place there; what is the deal with the hall of the undying? You may also note that the character that Dany was speaking with in the town square before she was distracted by her dothraki stealing shit was no bit actor; I'd have to look again to make sure though. If correct, it seems somewhat of a waste to use an actor of that caliber as pretty much a one-line background type character, and I'd have to assume more will happen with her.

My guess is the Hall of the Undying is for setting the stage, or maybe they try to do something significant, but it doesn't last for much of the story. I do think that chick she was talking to was a bit actor, it's the masked woman that was not. I have no clue about her

The main reason I think that Qarth is "throwaway" is because it seems everything on Essos is. It's all about this Iron Throne on Westeros, which is just weird to me since Essos is fucking bigger and probably richer and more powerful. The Dothraki are probably a thing of the past by now. I mean, the "Khaleesi" story is on life support. I'm positive that GoT spends a lot of time in non-Westeros places (as it has), but it appears that all those could just be transitional phases. We were all ginned up for the Dothraki horde dynamic, but that probably won't happen; likewise Qarth will probably come and go. Qarth isn't even a well thought out region. It's a trading mecca in the middle of a Garden of Bones. Um, what? GRRM probably didn't spend enough time on figuring out Qarth, or all of Essos for that matter.

And, if it needs to be pointed out, I doubt the producers would go to such lengths as to include Qarth in the opening credits sequence if the Dany storyline was only going to be there in passing.

The would. They did it for Riverrun or the Riverlands or the Twins or whatever, and that hasn't seen much action. Several characters and plotlines have all but died too. Tyrion's dagger, Alliser Thorne, and Barristan Selmy come to mind

[Penneywize]

relevant

[a500lbgorilla]

Agreed that Theon is one of the most interesting characters. Abandoned by his father, raised with the Starks but has to identify by and be proud of his Greyjoy name, finally meets his father and family and is basically abandoned again since he's been socialized by another house.

Will he fight for the Starks as an honorable man or with the Greyjoys to reclaim his lost identity and family or will he fight for himself as some hybrid honorable man who takes what he can?

Tune in next time!

[d0zer]

[boost]

would have been so much better with a two button NES controller.

[JKDS]

Ya, im left wondering what the others do. Quip? Declare yourself king/queen? Drink?

[d0zer]

Ya, im left wondering what the others do. Quip? Declare yourself king/queen? Drink?

<LEFT> + X kills a major character

[Penneywize]

'Y' has the character explain his motivations while having sex with a prostitute.

[wufwugy]

I thought that Stannis said "we'll not sail for KL without Melisandre", but somebody said he said "we'll sail for KL without Melisandre". So I don't know which he said, but if they're not bringing Meli to KL then Stannis stands no chance of winning. I feel like GRRM might have a soft spot on his heart for the Stannis character, but he's not beating up Tyrion on just brawn

[Renton]

he said "we'll sail w/o her"

[boost]

ya, def w/o

[wufwugy]

Also, unlike all those twats on TWoP...

I found this funny. That site has got to be the only one with soooo many women. Their style is just different. They treat the show, the thread, and those involved interacting in the thread more seriously, which is such a girl thing to do. But they do end up getting a ton of interesting and unique perspectives. Example, I felt that, even though he was never introduced, Stannis was a main character back in season one because the TWoP chicks kept referencing "the elusive crustacean" and whatever because Ned (or Renly) said he had the personality of a lobster