Game of Thrones TV Thread **HBO-Purists ONLY**

[bikes]

i will moderate this thread the best i can, u have mah word.
and u have mah bow.
AND MAH AXE.

[wufwugy]

ya i would bet all my star wars cards that no bookreaders are posting in the TWoP unspoiled speculation thread. well, not the fett man, obv

[boost]

i will moderate this thread the best i can, u have mah word.
and u have mah bow.
AND MAH AXE.

Thanks bikes, you're the man. I really hoped that since FTR is such a smaller community that the thread could be more or less self moderated... but idk, maybe after that whole mess, we are over the hump and it will be smooth sailing from here on out?

Also, the newest thread title should surely help out. The previous titles (even the original) were quite misleading.

[boost]

It's happening again tonight! Every week I can't believe that I've survived a week without a new episode of this show. I think I'm way more obsessed with it this season.. and the withdraw that follows the season finale is going to be extreme. But until then.. there's always next Sunday, until there's not.

[a500lbgorilla]

If the dragon lady is trying to become the Khalisee of the Khals and wage war with dragons + dothraki army, she's gonna get rocked come winter. The dothraki will suck nuts in any territory far enough north.

[JKDS]

Oh god, Tyrion's quips this episode were great!

[boost]

Tyrion is such a fucking boss. Only Tyrion (and maybe Tywin, yet I doubt we'll see Joffrey and Tywin on screen at once) could verbally abuse Joffrey like that and walk away from it.

[bikes]

it vexes me how they recasted gregor clegane.

[Renton]

ep was madreal

[boost]

it vexes me how they recasted gregor clegane.

they did? He did look bigger...

[wufwugy]

wtf gregor clegane was in that? where?

they should have cancelled the show instead of recast him

[Renton]

guy who was picking ppl to torture/kill

[d0zer]

holy fuck that hot redhead witch with the nice tits firing out that smoke monster demon baby? I wanna see that thing fuck up some lannister bitchez mmmhmmmm.

[bikes]

guy who was picking ppl to torture/kill

the big tall fellow. with the big tall burly voice.

also the guy who says 'we werent expecting you until tomorrow lord twyin'

[d0zer]

fucking loved twyin coming into that prison camp like a boss and sorting things out.

[a500lbgorilla]

Who was Clegane in the first season? The dude that de-horsed that horse's head?

[a500lbgorilla]

Stannis has a small army + pirates + shadow demon son
Renly has a large army + butch champion
Lannisters have a very large army + gold
Starks have a very large army + dire wolves
Targaryons have very small Dothraki army + dragons
Greyjoys have a large navy

Stannis > Renly without Stark support. Getting rocked will drive Renly to coordinate closely with Rob.

Everything else is waiting on winter.

[JKDS]

WINTER IS COMING

[d0zer]

I don't wanna sound like a superdork or nuthin' but don't dragons take forever to reach maturity? so what's her tits will only be able to use them symbolically to raise armies and gain power for the remainder of these books. Unless her dragon blood gives her super long life and the books stretch many generations or she fires out some dragon blood offspring that'll take over for her or dragons actually grow quicker in this world than in D&D world.

I'd be pretty cool to see some juvenile dragons kicking ass too, don't get me wrong.

...so much for not sounding like a superdork

[boost]

Stannis has a small army + pirates + shadow demon son
Renly has a large army + butch champion
Lannisters have a very large army + gold
Starks have a very large army + dire wolves
Targaryons have very small Dothraki army + dragons
Greyjoys have a large navy

Stannis > Renly without Stark support. Getting rocked will drive Renly to coordinate closely with Rob.

Everything else is waiting on winter.

Stannis- correct

Renly- no, Renly has the biggest army currently on the field, ~100k men

Lannisters- no, they have a medium army, ~60k the last time we heard a count

Starks- no, they have a fairly small army, last count it was ~20k

Targ- no, they have no army, what we saw Sunday night is the totality of Dany's 'horde', a handful of men, Jorah, some women, and her infant dragons

Greyjoys- yep

[boost]

btw, in the scene covering the aftermath of the pre-dawn Stark vs Lannister surprise attack, the guy who says "a naked man has few secrets, a flogged man has none." check out the sigil embossed on his leather chest armor.

[bikes]

OI,

[a500lbgorilla]

Stannis- correct

Renly- no, Renly has the biggest army currently on the field, ~100k men

Lannisters- no, they have a medium army, ~60k the last time we heard a count

Starks- no, they have a fairly small army, last count it was ~20k

Targ- no, they have no army, what we saw Sunday night is the totality of Dany's 'horde', a handful of men, Jorah, some women, and her infant dragons

Greyjoys- yep

How many troops does the crown command because this means the Lannisters are screwed. They can't fight on 2 or 3 fronts.

And how do all the bannermen of the North rally only 20k troops but Renly rolls with 100k? Where'd Renly's forces come from?

[wufwugy]

How many troops does the crown command because this means the Lannisters are screwed. They can't fight on 2 or 3 fronts.

And how do all the bannermen of the North rally only 20k troops but Renly rolls with 100k? Where'd Renly's forces come from?

Could be something as simple as Renly is the most popular guy south of King's Landing. Those with Baratheon and Tyrell allegiances are on his side, and perhaps the Martels or whatever else is south of KL

Northern/cold regions usually have lower populations, but each man is more valuable due to being better equipped to withstand the climate and terrain. IIRC, it's like how during one of the world wars, the Soviets outnumbered one of the Scandinavian countries like 10:1, but when they invaded, they got nowhere and their casualties were close to 10:1


Also, GRRM doesn't understand geography and probably not much about logistics. His geography is fucking awful. In the real world, the Narrow Sea would be way too small to keep the continents so isolated, Qarth would not be a lone city on the water source, but one of many, the Dothraki wouldn't be able to maintain so many horses, the Greyjoys couldn't really even be a culture with fortified location, almost every nation here would have lots of navy, not just the Greyjoys and the guy who wants to fuck the queen. Hell, King's Landing's navy would dwarf any other on the planet, just on the geography

[boost]

How many troops does the crown command because this means the Lannisters are screwed. They can't fight on 2 or 3 fronts.

And how do all the bannermen of the North rally only 20k troops but Renly rolls with 100k? Where'd Renly's forces come from?

The crown doesn't have a standing army as I understand it, just the gold cloaks and the kings guard. But, yes, the Lannisters are losing the war, but they have hope if they can get the other sides to fight each other. Which is happening-- Stannis vs Renly, and the Greyjoys are raiding the North, which will likely force Robb to retreat.

As for where Renly's numbers came from... House Tyrell is the second richest house in the kingdom, and Renly is extremely popular, so he essentially has all of the banners of the Stormlands and the Reach, which unsurprisingly dwarfs every other army on the field-- at least as far as numbers go.

[kickass]

Also, GRRM doesn't understand geography and probably not much about logistics. His geography is fucking awful. In the real world, the Narrow Sea would be way too small to keep the continents so isolated, Qarth would not be a lone city on the water source, but one of many, the Dothraki wouldn't be able to maintain so many horses, the Greyjoys couldn't really even be a culture with fortified location, almost every nation here would have lots of navy, not just the Greyjoys and the guy who wants to fuck the queen. Hell, King's Landing's navy would dwarf any other on the planet, just on the geography

dont ruin it with your logic and science, you bastard!

[BennyLaRue]

Also, GRRM doesn't understand geography and probably not much about logistics. His geography is fucking awful. In the real world, the Narrow Sea would be way too small to keep the continents so isolated, Qarth would not be a lone city on the water source, but one of many

You mean the lone city in Essos? You can see in the intro that there are more - Pentos, for example.

[boost]

Ya, what do you mean "lone city on the water source"?

HBOgo interactive map content, not spoilery at all imo, but it's worth it to spoiler tag nonetheless I think

Spoiler: Show

There are currently maybe a dozen cities shown in Essos, seemingly the map will be updated with more if the show ever goes there.

Curiously, the sea farthest to the east is named the Jade Sea. Jade often being associated with the Orient makes this map feature rather intriguing. Maybe we will see some rug pissing Chinamen?

[wufwugy]

I don't consider the HBOgo map a spoiler. Every fantasy novel I remember had maps in the front of the book. Plus I think that map only designates areas that have been mentioned, with some unmentioned geographical landmarks.

Anyways, Qarth is on a peninsula and a narrow channel. This means the "Sea of Bones" or what Jorah called the land around Qarth would not exist. There would be great activity all along the coastline, and even if there wasn't, wanderers would still contact enough wildlife and food to not default die if Qarth shuts its doors to them.

Geographically, GRRM uses way too much sea/water access for them to have such small navies and mobility. The food sources and travel logistics seem all sorts of messed up too.

[wufwugy]

EXPLORE: Viewer's Guide | Game of Thrones

It's funny when you relate Westeros, Essos, and Valyria to each other. It shows that the Iron Throne would not have been the Targaryen's destination, nor would it have been their primary care. Essos is more their region, and it looks much more relevant to the entire planet than Westeros even

From the beginning, I had this sort of problem with the logistics, but never said anything because I don't know the timelines. I guess you could make sense of things like the Dothraki being more powerful than all of Westeros, yet the Targaryens not conquering them if the dragons died before the Dothraki were anything big. However, the Targ coming from Valyria to Westeros makes no sense since Essos is their front door, and not establishing the Iron Throne in Essos, or at least with rule Essos from King's Landing doesn't make sense. The lore is as if Qarth, Vaes Dothrak, and even Pentos were not conquered by the dragons, but that's senseless since the dragons were to conquer everything. Why doesn't the Iron Throne rule over Pentos? No reason that makes sense based in what we've been told. Pentos being the way it has been portrayed is like if Germany had dragons and ruled over the European Throne for ages, yet not London. And Essos would be much easier to conquer than those Germany-dragons conquering Russia and Asia, which would have happened if at any point in Earth's history, Germany had the Targaryen powers

Shit don't make no sense

[wufwugy]

[boost]

Iron Standard and Mid-Westeros made me cackle.

[JKDS]

I dont get the qarth hate. I honestly dont know why there is a red wasteland...but surely its possible for it to exist. Whether you argue that its just some land that is naturally infertile, or that man did it intentionally, or that its the result of dragon fire or something, it surely isnt that hard to believe that a red waste land could exist in this area that has very few cities around it (as you would expect of a wasteland).

theres pretty much nothing around quarth either, so that easily explains why it isnt a major city with tons of activity. Who are they gonna trade with? What exactly do they even have to trade?

Makes sense to me.

Re Navy size: Its been a time of peace.

[boost]

On the contrary, Qarth seems to be a trading mecca, otherwise it's existence in the middle of the desert with seemingly no arable lands around it just doesn't make sense. Also we have the clue that the unnamed speaker mentioned that he is "but a humble merchant" or something like that.

[JKDS]

You've got me there. Hrmmm, now i dont get qarth for different reasons than wuf then lol.

[boost]

When did we find out the Targarians are from Valyria? And I'm not sure that I agree with most of your geography nits, however this is the sort of nittery I enjoy, and I would like to hear more reasoning behind it. Why can't Qarth stand alone? Are there no historical examples of such cities? A sort of waypoint on the road, an oasis, where if you are denied entry your chances of survival on the road are slim... I'll do some wiki'ing, I'm pretty sure I can come up with an example.

[JKDS]

Careful boost, wiki-ing will give u massive spoilers. MASSIVE.

[d0zer]

this is not the sort of nittery I enjoy. Moar about tits, smoke monsters, dragons, incest, and whore-beating.

[a500lbgorilla]

In light of the old gods being real and fire gods manifesting shadow demons, what is up with Bran's dreams? 3 eye'd crows and him being wolves?

[wufwugy]

I dont get the qarth hate. I honestly dont know why there is a red wasteland...but surely its possible for it to exist. Whether you argue that its just some land that is naturally infertile, or that man did it intentionally, or that its the result of dragon fire or something, it surely isnt that hard to believe that a red waste land could exist in this area that has very few cities around it (as you would expect of a wasteland).

The issue is that there's a coastline. Coastline and inlets provide for most of the pre-industrial world's population. Qarth couldn't have a Sea of Bones because it's not an oasis in the middle of a desert, it's one small place on a TON of coastline

Boost's point about trading mecca is astute. That entire coastline would be a trading mecca. In fact, the region would probably be a bigger place than Westeros since Westeros seems to be unrealistically isolated from anywhere else. The Narrow Sea *should* be nothing more than a channel like between Britain and the mainland

Re Navy size: Its been a time of peace.

It was a time of peace because the Targs ruled. Without dragons, the Targs couldn't rule with the shit navy they have. One of the keys of civilization is use of water, everything from transportation and military to food. The Iron Throne not ruling over the greatest navy is just bad logistics

When did we find out the Targarians are from Valyria? And I'm not sure that I agree with most of your geography nits, however this is the sort of nittery I enjoy, and I would like to hear more reasoning behind it. Why can't Qarth stand alone? Are there no historical examples of such cities? A sort of waypoint on the road, an oasis, where if you are denied entry your chances of survival on the road are slim... I'll do some wiki'ing, I'm pretty sure I can come up with an example.

Pretty sure season one said Targs came from Valyria. I'm not googling it though.

The Sea of Bones would work if Qarth was an oasis, but it's clearly not. It's like Spain, and GRRM assumes that this Spain wouldn't have a France, UK, or Morocco around it. In many ways, a better example would be that Qarth is like United Arab Emirates, but we know a lot more about Europe than the Middle East, so I try to make my analogies there, I guess

[wufwugy]

who the hell cuts out the other ones?

[BennyLaRue]

The Sea of Bones would work if Qarth was an oasis, but it's clearly not. It's like Spain, and GRRM assumes that this Spain wouldn't have a France, UK, or Morocco around it. In many ways, a better example would be that Qarth is like United Arab Emirates, but we know a lot more about Europe than the Middle East, so I try to make my analogies there, I guess

That's exactly what Qarth is - the Arabian Penisula. Look at the map and consider the societies we've seen...it's exceptionally similar to Earth (WITH WINTERFELL ALL TORONTO-Y AND KING'S LANDING AS SHITTY WASHINGTON DC, the Dothraki like the Mongols) with the Atlantic shrunk so that we wouldn't be all like, whatever GRRM, there was no crossing of the Atlantic in Medieval Times, fucker.

Season 1 went on and on about how broke King's Landing is. They can't afford a navy.

[wufwugy]

That's exactly what Qarth is - the Arabian Penisula. Look at the map and consider the societies we've seen...it's exceptionally similar to Earth (WITH WINTERFELL ALL TORONTO-Y AND KING'S LANDING AS SHITTY WASHINGTON DC, the Dothraki like the Mongols) with the Atlantic shrunk so that we wouldn't be all like, whatever GRRM, there was no crossing of the Atlantic in Medieval Times, fucker.

Season 1 went on and on about how broke King's Landing is. They can't afford a navy.

My two main points are that Qarth is like UAE, but GRRM's version of Qarth is not. UAE doesn't have a Sea of Bones around it. All that coastline is in heavy use; so if Qarth rejects you, just go to a different part of the coast

The other point is that the Narrow Sea is not like the Atlantic, but a channel. If it was the size of the Atlantic then the trip from Pentos to Vaes Dothrak is not scaled even close to correctly and would be waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too long for virtually anything to survive and would be like traveling from Israel to China while taking the time it would take to walk the whole globe or something


Also, KL being too broke to afford a navy would mean that within the year, a navy destroys them. Navies completely and utterly rule land areas where there's sea access. That's why, in history class, we learned so much about the naval dominance of Spain and Britain along with their vast empires.

GRRM's world has greater access to sea than our current world, yet less mobility. It's weird. One of the most important aspects of how civilization develops/distributes is sea access

[boost]

Careful boost, wiki-ing will give u massive spoilers. MASSIVE.

I did not mean wiki'ing the show, I meant wiki'ing actual historical cities and whatnot that would show that GRRM's geography isn't horseshit.

[bikes]

LESS NITTERY MORE ENJOYAMENT IMO

[wufwugy]

bikes' response every time he sees me post: ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

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That's exactly what Qarth is - the Arabian Penisula. Look at the map and consider the societies we've seen...it's exceptionally similar to Earth (WITH WINTERFELL ALL TORONTO-Y AND KING'S LANDING AS SHITTY WASHINGTON DC, the Dothraki like the Mongols) with the Atlantic shrunk so that we wouldn't be all like, whatever GRRM, there was no crossing of the Atlantic in Medieval Times, fucker.

Season 1 went on and on about how broke King's Landing is. They can't afford a navy.

I'm sure you're half joking, but the world GRRM created is clearly a heavily Anglo-centric world view. Westeros is essentially mainland Britain but 10x the size. People from the north even tend to have Scottish accents.

[boost]

some preliminary googling on oasis cities...

When the Mediterranean Sea was a hot dry hollow near the end of the Messinian Salinity Crisis ...

Mediterranean was once dry. Mind blown.

[d0zer]

bikes' response every time he sees me post: ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff

I also dislike most of your posts in this thread, but the climate change ned poast was fantastic

[wufwugy]

wtf how do u dislike my posts? ive been making some nifty predictions