FBI seizes domains of pokerstars, full tilt, ub.. (UPDATE: Howard Lederer Interview)

[Fnord]

From 2+2:

the $11 25k guaranteed has 10 mins left of registration and they are still 8k short. i suspect stars doesnt hit any guarantees, especially the big weekend tournies. it would be funny if they decreased the guarantees before even responding to any of us

CRAZY VALUE!

[Roid_Rage]

No courtie, I'm American, but live in Michigan. Might as well be CAD

Going to be so pissed if I don't even get refunded (which I guess is also useless since I'm not allowed to play anyways..... FUUUUUUUUCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

[profnabeshin]

I picked the wrong time to deposit back onto Full Tilt...

Anyone know how this is affected the other countries yet? Are people in Canada or UK going to still be able to cashout? Or are we all in the same boat sailing down Shit River?

[Fnord]

I picked the wrong time to deposit back onto Full Tilt...

Just tell yourself that you got rivered by a one outer...

[bigspenda73]

hey fnord, it'd be nice if you weren't acting all smug as fuck while the rest of us were pretty nervous about our future

kthxbai

[Fnord]

Fair enough.

Yeah I got a bit too macabre, but man guys, you're poker players, don't let wishful thinking get in the way of seeing this for what it is.

ESPN Poker seems to have some credible information comming out via their twitter feed.

[philly and the phanatics]

[philly and the phanatics]

damn i was too slow

[wufwugy]

I'm not in as much shock since I already dealt with the panic attacks when PS and FTP left WA

This is ALL about bank fraud. Without that, nothing else sticks. I told those stupid fuckers when they left WA how to run their goddamn business in a way that they would never get hassled, but stupid fuckers will be stupid fuckers. This isn't rocket science. International wires, international debit cards, international checks = no can defend. But these stupid fuckers go to fucking Utah and give the FBI the finger

This is not the end of online poker. We actually want these fucking morons out of the business. The landscape needs to operate like sportsbetting i.e. small, smart, and the FBI don't fuck with them because it's too much of a hassle

Notice that it's PS/FTP/AP, not UB, not Cereus. I don't know who owns Cereus, but the two guys indicted from AP are AP's founder and a processor guy

[profnabeshin]

[givememyleg]

will update OP as we get more info....

[Sasquach991]

Optimistic: Well I got to have a hobby for 2.5 years that didn't cost me anything and I actually withdrew a few hundred dollars. If I can never access this money again then Oh well

Pessimistic:

[drmcboy]

so should I just say F it and play the friday night fight?

[philly and the phanatics]

so then wuf if i sign up for UB and xfer my funds to my UB accnt i would be safe?

[wufwugy]

so then wuf if i sign up for UB and xfer my funds to my UB accnt i would be safe?

Scratch what I said about UB. Reading the full draft, apparently transactions were for UB as well. They just choose to lump everything under "Absolute Poker"

I do have some suspicion that Cereus will ride out the storm. I'd like to be able to find information on Blanca Games, their most recent owners

Also, GamblingCompliance looks legit, and they're saying all indicted sites will shut down within 48 hours...

[fjuanl]

HU4FPPROLLZ?

[Sorcery11]

Back to the live fullring games at the Indian casinos...

[philly and the phanatics]

in b4 no money live everyones solid

[drmcboy]

I'm telling myself could be the last session ever but I just can't get going

[daven]

Ive tried to cash out to my neteller account, It appeared to be successful, but no confirmation e-mail has arrived yet.

From neteller , i can transfer to UK . is neteller still safe ?

Does any one know ?

worked for me

[baudib]

i'm pretty depressed, so tonight I'll go to the underground game with the blonde russian massage girl and the cute korean girl who donks off 3 BIs a night...

[drmcboy]

wow nightly hundred grand now running as the nightly 50 grand

[LuckySlevin]

45 minutes ago

AAP
Australian internet whiz Daniel Tzvetkoff, who has become a prized FBI informant in a bid to avoid a 75 year jail sentence in the US, may have brought down the multi-billion dollar American online poker industry.
The FBI announced on Friday it had charged 11 people, including the founders of three of the largest internet poker companies in the US, with bank fraud, money laundering and illegal gambling offences.
The three poker sites - PokerStars, Full Tilt Poker and Absolute Poker - have been shut down.

It is believed Gold Coast entrepreneur Tzvetkoff's decision to turn super-grass and reveal to authorities the secret schemes used by poker companies to illegally launder billions of dollars via phony bank accounts and shell companies helped the FBI and New York prosecutors build their case.
"These defendants, knowing full well that their business with US customers and US banks was illegal, tried to stack the deck," FBI assistant director Janice Fedarcyk, in announcing Friday's charges, said.
"They lied to banks about the true nature of their business."
The internet gambling kingpins, including Isai Scheinberg and Paul Tate of PokerStars, Raymond Bitar and Nelson Burtnick of Full Tilt Poker and Scott Tom and Brent Beckley of Absolute Poker, face 30-year sentences in US jails.
A year ago it was 28-year-old one-time Queensland high-flyer Tzvetkoff who faced the long stint in the US federal prison system for money laundering, bank fraud and other charges.
US authorities arrested Tzvetkoff exactly a year ago (April 16) when he visited one of the top casinos on the Las Vegas strip, the Wynn, for a gambling conference.
Tzvetkoff was painted by prosecutors as the brains behind the creation of an illegal system for processing $US500 million in transactions between US gamblers and internet gaming websites. Tzvetkoff allegedly created phony shell companies with names unrelated to gambling to process the transactions.
US federal prosecutors vigorously fought to keep Tzvetkoff in jail, battling and eventually overturning a Las Vegas judge's decision to grant the Australian bail.
Tzvetkoff was transferred to a New York jail and sat there until June when in a surprise about face, he was quietly released with his whereabouts unknown.
"He's turned the corner, seen the light and is co-operating," former FBI agent Harold Copus, after reviewing the details of the case, told AAP.
It is believed Tzvetkoff and his fiancee, Nicole Crisp, are being held in a safe house.
Mr Copus, head of Atlanta-based private investigative company Copus Security Consultants, said that was normal procedure for a high-value informant.
Prosecutors and Tzvetkoff's Boston-based lawyer Robert Goldstein have refused to comment on the Tzvetkoff case.
Tzvetkoff's life in exclusion and period in Las Vegas and New York jails was polar opposite to his flamboyant former life as an internet high-flyer.
Just a few years ago Tzvetkoff, who created Brisbane-based internet payment processing company Intabill, had an estimated personal worth of $A82 million, bought a $A27 million home on the Gold Coast, drove Lamborghinis and Ferraris and sponsored a professional motor racing team.
Prosecutors during last year's bail hearing in Las Vegas suggested Tzvetkoff may have a secret stash of $US100 million in money netted from illegal dealings.

[fulksy]

jesus, just got home WTF.

[baudib]

in b4 no money live everyones solid

yeah i gotta get some sessions in before the local 2+2ers start fking up my games.

[mxiu]

Canadian here with nearly 5 digits on stars atm. Not sure what to do... I don't have any of these other types of accounts. I usually just get a check from PS.

What do FTR?

[givememyleg]

hey guys ium drunk... hows it oging!?!?

[Warpe]

Hey Amelicans, try this:

http://w.fulltiltpoker.com/

[rpm]

so when i try to open full tilt, i get the normal "new software update to install" message. almost instantaneously after i click ok and the download starts, it says it was unable to download the new software and all FTP windows close. anyone else have this problem?

[Warpe]

76,400 players on FTP, including Americans

[fulksy]

my tables on FT are almost all americans

[daven]

so when i try to open full tilt, i get the normal "new software update to install" message. almost instantaneously after i click ok and the download starts, it says it was unable to download the new software and all FTP windows close. anyone else have this problem?

this could be cos the source site for the download is closed and the FTP client app can't deal with it - this was an update from a few days ago i think? some 2p2 regs had the same problem

[fulksy]

and crazy soft. on PS nice overlays on guaranteed tournys

[d0zer]

hey guys ium drunk... hows it oging!?!?

once the news set in, this was also my strategy...


...so pretty fuckin' good!

[Fnord]

Canadian here with nearly 5 digits on stars atm. Not sure what to do... I don't have any of these other types of accounts. I usually just get a check from PS.

What do FTR?

Sadly, I think the right play when there is a bank run is to get the best spot you can in line...

and crazy soft. on PS nice overlays on guaranteed tournys

Bet it's playing almost like a freeroll...

[rpm]

this could be cos the source site for the download is closed and the FTP client app can't deal with it - this was an update from a few days ago i think? some 2p2 regs had the same problem

good point. thanks.
this makes a shitload of sense in light of trying to get onto the full tilt website and seeing nothing but an FBI logo and a whole heap of references to relevant sections of different pieces of legislation. ugh.

[Fnord]

hey guys ium drunk... hows it oging!?!?

Plane leaves for Vegas tomorrow. Drinks are on me if I see any of you...

[cr4zybe4utifu1]

hey guys ium drunk... hows it oging!?!?

Joined the hubby. I'm drunk too.

[LawDude]

I'm not in as much shock since I already dealt with the panic attacks when PS and FTP left WA

This is ALL about bank fraud. Without that, nothing else sticks. I told those stupid fuckers when they left WA how to run their goddamn business in a way that they would never get hassled, but stupid fuckers will be stupid fuckers. This isn't rocket science. International wires, international debit cards, international checks = no can defend. But these stupid fuckers go to fucking Utah and give the FBI the finger

This is not the end of online poker. We actually want these fucking morons out of the business. The landscape needs to operate like sportsbetting i.e. small, smart, and the FBI don't fuck with them because it's too much of a hassle

Notice that it's PS/FTP/AP, not UB, not Cereus. I don't know who owns Cereus, but the two guys indicted from AP are AP's founder and a processor guy

Not nearly this simple.

FTP and Stars had a decent, though not iron clad, case that online poker was legal. They could have brought a court case challenging the DOJ's interpretation, which, if successful, would have stopped the actions against payment processors. For various reasons, they decided not to take the chance.

Once they did that, this sort of bank fraud was inevitable because their customers wanted to deposit and withdraw money and the DOJ wasn't allowing them direct access to the banking system.

[LuckySlevin]

Not nearly this simple.

FTP and Stars had a decent, though not iron clad, case that online poker was legal. They could have brought a court case challenging the DOJ's interpretation, which, if successful, would have stopped the actions against payment processors. For various reasons, they decided not to take the chance.

Once they did that, this sort of bank fraud was inevitable because their customers wanted to deposit and withdraw money and the DOJ wasn't allowing them direct access to the banking system.

Seems simple enough to me. They circumvented the blocks in place to fraudulently get money into and out of their sites... I mean I respected Pokerstars as a class outfit until this happened. If the reports are true they were plainly engaged in fraud.

[Warpe]

Hey Amelicans, try this:

http://w.fulltiltpoker.com/

Now this:

http://p.fulltiltpoker.com/

[fulksy]

Bet it's playing almost like a freeroll...

its honestly pretty sick

[bigspenda73]

fulltilt.com and pokerstars.com still work for me

[Fnord]

Not nearly this simple.

Hey, you're a lawyer, right?

Totally off the record, what do you think the chances are the players ever see a check? If the sites get a stupid-billion dollar judgment against them are player funds on the table (*IF* they're still in a separate account.) Are player funds on the table for paying off the lawyers to fight said judgment? Am I totally off thinking that best case, once all the accounts are frozen they maybe, might see a check for some X% after Y years?

[HarleyGuy13]

Their new web site for both PokerStars and Full Tilt Poker!

[philly and the phanatics]

Their new web site at

wtf so we are all subject to prosecution ? obv not going to prosecute everyone or probably anyone but does that mean that our funds are basically being viewed as drug money lol and going to be gone

[rpm]

@philly

i'm certainly no legal mind, but that's the way i'm reading it.

[thelorax]

sooo if i have PS send me a check it will just bounce right?

[vaks]

Hey, you're a lawyer, right?

Totally off the record, what do you think the chances are the players ever see a check? If the sites get a stupid-billion dollar judgment against them are player funds on the table (*IF* they're still in a separate account.) Are player funds on the table for paying off the lawyers to fight said judgment? Am I totally off thinking that best case, once all the accounts are frozen they maybe, might see a check for some X% after Y years?

I'm curious as this as well...

I want to think my money is completely safe

but I have a large sum of money on AP right now that is pretty much my livelihood. I was supposed to be receiving a bank transfer in the next few days from them so I can pay bills and eat so I guess we will see if that comes early next week or not. But it seems like there is no way in hell we won't get our money back even if the government thinks that what we are doing is illegal. But, I could be wrong and more and more I'm thinking I'm totally fucked.

Is it worth it to try and withdraw?

[HarleyGuy13]

This is right off the FBI's web site:

Manhattan U.S. Attorney Charges Principals of Three Largest Internet Poker Companies with Bank Fraud, Illegal Gambling Offenses, and Laundering Billions in Illegal Gambling Proceeds
Multi-Billion-Dollar Civil Money Laundering and Forfeiture Action Also Filed Internet Domain Names Used by the Poker Companies Seized

U.S. Attorney’s Office April 15, 2011

• Southern District of New York (212) 637-2600

— filed under: New York Top Stories, Press Release
PREET BHARARA, the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, and JANICE FEDARCYK, the Assistant Director in Charge of the New York Field Office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (“FBI”), announced the unsealing of an indictment today charging 11 defendants, including the founders of the three largest Internet poker companies doing business in the United States—PokerStars, Full Tilt Poker, and Absolute Poker (the “Poker Companies”)—with bank fraud, money laundering, and illegal gambling offenses. The United States also filed a civil money laundering and in rem forfeiture complaint (the “Civil Complaint") against the Poker Companies, their assets, and the assets of several payment processors for the Poker Companies. In addition, restraining orders were issued against more than 75 bank accounts utilized by the Poker Companies and their payment processors, and five Internet domain names used by the Poker Companies to host their illegal poker games were seized.
Manhattan U.S. Attorney PREET BHARARA said: “As charged, these defendants concocted an elaborate criminal fraud scheme, alternately tricking some U.S. banks and effectively bribing others to assure the continued flow of billions in illegal gambling profits. Moreover, as we allege, in their zeal to circumvent the gambling laws, the defendants also engaged in massive money laundering and bank fraud. Foreign firms that choose to operate in the United States are not free to flout the laws they don’t like simply because they can’t bear to be parted from their profits."
FBI Assistant Director in Charge JANICE K. FEDARCYK said: “These defendants, knowing full well that their business with U.S. customers and U.S. banks was illegal, tried to stack the deck. They lied to banks about the true nature of their business. Then, some of the defendants found banks willing to flout the law for a fee. The defendants bet the house that they could continue their scheme, and they lost."
According to the indictment and the civil complaint unsealed today:
On October 13, 2006, the United States enacted the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (“UIGEA"), making it a federal crime for gambling businesses to “knowingly accept" most forms of payment “in connection with the participation of another person in unlawful Internet gambling." Despite the passage of UIGEA, the Poker Companies, located offshore, continued operating in the United States. In a press release dated October 16, 2006, Absolute Poker announced that the company would continue its U.S. operations because “the U.S. Congress has no control over" the company’s payment transactions.
Because U.S. banks and credit card issuers were largely unwilling to process their payments, the Poker Companies allegedly used fraudulent methods to circumvent federal law and trick these institutions into processing payments on their behalf. For example, defendants ISAI SCHEINBERG and PAUL TATE of PokerStars, RAYMOND BITAR and NELSON BURTNICK of Full Tilt Poker, and SCOTT TOM and BRENT BECKLEY of Absolute Poker, arranged for the money received from U.S. gamblers to be disguised as payments to hundreds of non-existent online merchants purporting to sell merchandise such as jewelry and golf balls. Of the billions of dollars in payment transactions that the Poker Companies tricked U.S. banks into processing, approximately one-third or more of the funds went directly to the Poker Companies as revenue through the “rake" charged to players on almost every poker hand played online.
As alleged in the Indictment, to accomplish their fraud, the Poker Companies worked with an array of highly compensated “payment processors"—including defendants RYAN LANG, IRA RUBIN, BRADLEY FRANZEN, and CHAD ELIE—who obtained accounts at U. S. banks for the Poker Companies. The payment processors lied to banks about the nature of the financial transactions they were processing, and covered up those lies, by, among other things, creating phony corporations and websites to disguise payments to the Poker Companies. For example, a PokerStars document from May 2009 acknowledged that they received money from U.S. gamblers through company names that “strongly imply the transaction has nothing to do with PokerStars," and that PokerStars used whatever company names “the processor can get approved by the bank."
By late 2009, after U.S. banks and financial institutions detected and shut down multiple fraudulent bank accounts used by the Poker Companies, SCHEINBERG and BITAR developed a new processing strategy that would not involve lying to banks. PokerStars, FullTilt Poker, and their payment processors persuaded the principals of a few small, local banks facing financial difficulties to engage in such processing in return for multi-million-dollar investments in the banks. For example, in September 2009, ELIE and others approached defendant JOHN CAMPOS, the Vice Chairman of the Board and part-owner of SunFirst Bank, a small, private bank based in Saint George, Utah, about processing Internet poker transactions. While expressing “trepidations," CAMPOS allegedly agreed to process gambling transactions in return for a $10 million investment in SunFirst by ELIE and an associate, which would give them a more than 30 percent ownership stake in the bank. CAMPOS also requested and received a $20,000 “bonus" for his assistance. In an e-mail, one of ELIE’s associates boasted that they had “purchased" SunFirst and that they “were looking to purchase" “a grand total of 3 or 4 banks" to process payments.
The indictment and civil complaint seek at least $3 billion in civil money laundering penalties and forfeiture from the Poker Companies and the defendants. The District Court issued an order restraining approximately 76 bank accounts in 14 countries containing the proceeds of the charged offenses. Pursuant to a warrant for arrest in rem issued by the U.S. District Court, the United States also seized five Internet domain names used by the Poker Companies to operate their illegal online businesses in the United States.
Defendants CAMPOS and ELIE were arrested this morning in Saint George, Utah and Las Vegas, Nevada, respectively. ELIE will appear later today before a U. S. Magistrate Court Judge in Las Vegas, Nevada. CAMPOS will appear before a U.S. Magistrate Court Judge in Saint George, Utah on April 18, 2011. Defendant FRANZEN is expected to appear for his arraignment on April 19, 2011 in the Southern District of New York. Defendants BITAR, SCHEINBERG, BURTNICK, TATE, TOM, BECKLEY, RUBIN, and LANG are not presently in the United States and have not yet been arrested. The U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York is working with foreign law enforcement agencies and Interpol to secure the arrest of these defendants and the seizure of criminal proceeds located abroad. BITAR, TOM, RUBIN, BECKLEY, CAMPOS, ELIE, and FRANZEN are U. S. citizens. A chart identifying each defendant, the charges, and the maximum penalties, is attached to this release.
U.S. Attorney PREET BHARARA praised the FBI for its outstanding leadership in the investigation, which he noted is ongoing. Mr. BHARARA also thanked Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s New York and New Jersey offices, and the Washington State Gambling Commission, for their assistance in the investigation.
The matters announced today are being handled by the Office’s Complex Frauds and Asset Forfeiture Units. Assistant U.S. Attorneys ARLO DEVLIN-BROWN and NICOLE FRIEDLANDER are in charge of the criminal case, and Assistant U. S. Attorneys SHARON COHEN LEVIN, MICHAEL LOCKARD and JASON COWLEY are in charge of the civil money laundering and forfeiture actions.
The charges contained in the indictment and civil complaint are merely accusations, and the defendants are presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty.
11-098
U. S. v. Scheinberg et al. (10 Cr. 336)
Defendant Citizenship Residence Age ISAI SCHEINBERG Canada; Israel Isle of Man 64 (est.) RAYMOND BITAR United States California Ireland 39SCOTT TOM United States Costa Rica 31BRENT BECKLEY United States Costa Rica 31NELSON BURTNICK Canada Ireland 40PAUL TATE Isle of Man RYAN LANG Canada Canada 36BRADLEY FRANZEN United States Illinois Cost Rica 41IRA RUBIN United States Costa Rica 52CHAD ELIE United States Nevada 31JOHN CAMPOS United States Utah 57
Count Charge Defendants Maximum Penalties 1Conspiracy to Violate Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGIEA) ISAI SCHEINBERG, RAYMOND BITAR, SCOTT TOM, BRENT BECKLEY, NELSON BURTNICK, PAUL TATE, RYAN LANG, BRADLEY FRANZEN, IRA RUBIN, CHAD ELIE, JOHN CAMPOS Five years in prison; fine of $250,000 or twice the gross gain or loss; three years of supervised release 2Violation of Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGIEA) -PokerStars ISAI SCHEINBERG, NELSON BURTNICK, PAUL TATE, RYAN LANG, BRADLEY FRANZEN, IRA RUBIN, CHAD ELIE, JOHN CAMPOS Five years in prison; fine of $250,000 or twice the gross gain or loss; three years of supervised release 3Violation of Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGIEA) - Full Tilt Poker RAYMOND BITAR, NELSON BURTNICK, RYAN LANG, BRADLEY FRANZEN, IRA RUBIN, CHAD ELIE, JOHN CAMPOS Five years in prison; fine of $250,000 or twice the gross gain or loss; three years of supervised release 4Violation of Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGIEA) -Absolute Poker SCOTT TOM, BRENT BECKLEY, RYAN LANG, BRADLEY FRANZEN, IRA RUBIN, CHAD ELIE Five years in prison; fine of $250,000 or twice the gross gain or loss; three years of supervised release 5Operation of Illegal Gambling Business -PokerStars ISAI SCHEINBERG, NELSON BURTNICK, PAUL TATE, RYAN LANG, BRADLEY FRANZEN, IRA RUBIN, CHAD ELIE, JOHN CAMPOS Five years in prison; fine of $250,000 or twice the gross gain or loss; three years of supervised release; forfeiture of proceeds of offense 6Operation of Illegal Gambling Business - Full Tilt Poker RAYMOND BITAR, NELSON BURTNICK, RYAN LANG, BRADLEY FRANZEN, IRA RUBIN, CHAD ELIE, JOHN CAMPOS Five years in prison; fine of $250,000 or twice the gross gain or loss; three years ofsupervised release; forfeiture of proceeds of offense 7Operation of Illegal Gambling Business -Absolute Poker SCOTT TOM, BRENT BECKLEY, RYAN LANG, BRADLEY FRANZEN, IRA RUBIN, CHAD ELIE Five years in prison; fine of $250,000 or twice the gross gain or loss; three years of supervised release; forfeiture of proceeds of offense 8Commit Bank Fraud and Wire Fraud RAYMOND BITAR, BRENT BECKLEY, NELSON BURTNICK, PAUL TATE, RYAN LANG, BRADLEY FRANZEN, IRA RUBIN, CHAD ELIE Fine of $1,000,000 or twice the gross gain or loss; five years of supervised release; forfeiture of proceeds of offense 9Money Laundering Conspiracy ISAI SCHEINBERG, RAYMOND BITAR, BRENT BECKLEY, NELSON BURTNICK, PAUL TATE, RYAN LANG, BRADLEY FRANZEN, IRA RUBIN, CHAD ELIE, JOHN CAMPOS 20 years in prison; fine of $500,000 or twice the amount laundered; three years of supervised release; forfeiture of proceeds of offense


EDIT: Sorry it didn't copy and paste to well so here is link: FBI — Manhattan U.S. Attorney Charges Principals of Three Largest Internet Poker Companies with Bank Fraud, Illegal Gambling Offenses, and Laundering Billions in Illegal Gambling Proceeds