Select Page
Poker Forum
Over 1,291,000 Posts!
Poker ForumFTR Community

FBI seizes domains of pokerstars, full tilt, ub.. (UPDATE: FTP MONIES!!!!!11)

Page 5 of 17 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast
Results 301 to 375 of 1238
  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by rpm View Post
    was having that problem all day yesterday. managed to get the new software downloaded last night.
    Do anything special or just kept opening the client and trying to download update? Thanks mate.
  2. #302
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    8,697
    Location
    soaking up ethanol, moving on up
    Quote Originally Posted by BountyJoker View Post
    yea 1 more day till my take 2 was complete for $25 & silver iron man bonus. Was on a good roll of finally profiting. just crushed my livelyhood. im paralyzed and stuck inside at all hours. solitare @ POGO yiptee flippin day
    bullshit
    fuck off
  3. #303
    I am reading online that ppl having this issue need to uninstall and download the client from .uk
  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by daven View Post
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BountyJoker
    yea 1 more day till my take 2 was complete for $25 & silver iron man bonus. Was on a good roll of finally profiting. just crushed my livelyhood. im paralyzed and stuck inside at all hours. solitare @ POGO yiptee flippin day

    bullshit
    fuck off
    An appropriate reaction, daven, but if you read the part in blue it lends a different perspective.
  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by daven View Post
    bullshit
    fuck off
    gee thnxs mate
  6. #306
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,189
    Location
    Live Poker Room
    bountyjoker, why don't you look at doing some kind of web business? lots of potential out there, if you have the time and focus etc
  7. #307
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    8,697
    Location
    soaking up ethanol, moving on up
    Quote Originally Posted by BountyJoker View Post
    gee thnxs mate
    i didn't absorb the part that benny pointed out in blue below. I saw 3 posts, i saw troll. I screwed up pretty bad on this one - I apologise.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by daven
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BountyJoker
    yea 1 more day till my take 2 was complete for $25 & silver iron man bonus. Was on a good roll of finally profiting. just crushed my livelyhood. im paralyzed and stuck inside at all hours. solitare @ POGO yiptee flippin day

    bullshit
    fuck off


    Quote Originally Posted by benny View Post
    An appropriate reaction, daven, but if you read the part in blue it lends a different perspective.
  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by LuckySlevin View Post
    bountyjoker, why don't you look at doing some kind of web business? lots of potential out there, if you have the time and focus etc
    wow yer a bunch of odd ducks i was commenting on the relavent thread 'poker' related instead i get life guidance thanks btw and bottom feeding subhuman foul remarks. lol thnxs 4 the feedback
  9. #309
    [QUOTE=daven;2029609]i didn't absorb the part that benny pointed out in blue below. I saw 3 posts, i saw troll. I screwed up pretty bad on this one - I apologise.

    oh thnxs really i guess i dont understand advanced poker lingo and mindset, i have only been 3 years playing. im just shuttin up now
  10. #310
    E-mail received from Stars when I asked them WTF was going on:

    Hello taipan168,

    Thank you for your email.

    Unfortunately we experienced some technical issues, when you made your cashout request. This have been fixed and you will be able to request a cashout anytime you wish.

    If there is anything else we can help you with, please do not hesitate to contact us again.

    Regards,

    Christa
    PokerStars Support Team
    I put through another cashout request, let's see if it gets through. Until it does, no more playing on Stars for me. If it does, I might keep no more than $100-200 on the site and go from there.
  11. #311
    rpm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    3,084
    Location
    maaaaaaaaaaate
    supposedly, my FT withdrawal has been "processed" and "approved" and "will be in my account within 72 working hours". stars has not yet contacted me post-"processing" stage. both these are via direct bank transfer to australia.
  12. #312
    rpm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    3,084
    Location
    maaaaaaaaaaate
    Quote Originally Posted by Openside View Post
    Do anything special or just kept opening the client and trying to download update? Thanks mate.
    i didn't do anything except keep trying to open it every 20 minutes. eventually the download worked.
  13. #313
    sorry to be so petulant but should i go ahead and withdraw my funds right meow? someone said something about getting an early place in line earlier. What are the rest of you guys gonna do (the americans)?
  14. #314
    Professional vidya-gaming is about to get significantly more competitive...
    So you click their picture and then you get their money?
  15. #315
    supa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,529
    Location
    At the bar drinking whisky with an "e"
    Quote Originally Posted by philly and the phanatics View Post
    sorry to be so petulant but should i go ahead and withdraw my funds right meow? someone said something about getting an early place in line earlier. What are the rest of you guys gonna do (the americans)?
    I was planning on withdrawing all but $150 to help pay for a vacation at the end of the month, but now I don't know if I wanna fuck with it. I personally feel like this shits gonna blow over at some point but i've honestly just been waiting to see what other US players are doing. I'm sure my $750 roll seems insignifcant to others but the whole thing is fucking me up right now.

    Gettin a bottle of Jack and some bbq shit and moving on to the drunk thread.
    “Right thoughts produce right actions and right actions produce work which will be a material reflection for others to see of the serenity at the center of it all”

    Put hero on a goddamn range part II- The 6max years

    Quote Originally Posted by d0zer View Post
    start using your brain more and vagina less

    Quote Originally Posted by kingnat View Post
    Members who's signature is a humorous quote about his/herself made by someone who is considered a notable member of the FTR community to give themselves a sense of belonging.
  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by kingnat View Post
    Professional vidya-gaming is about to get significantly more competitive...
    lol for real. High school dream of being a Halo pro? Here we come! lol
    [00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
    [00:30] <DC> daven
    [00:30] <DC> on my hand?
    [00:30] <daven> yep
    [00:30] <DC> because I am drunk
    [00:30] <daven> nice reason
    [00:30] <daven> no further questions
    [00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol

    Problem officer...?
  17. #317
    rpm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    3,084
    Location
    maaaaaaaaaaate
    Quote Originally Posted by supahaole View Post

    Gettin a bottle of Jack and some bbq shit and moving on to the drunk thread.
    you, sir, would make a good australian by the sound of things.
  18. #318
    time for two things:
    1- invest in beer stock
    2- learn to deal poker (there will be tons more people comming to vegas to play live)
    Since I gave up sex for food, I can't even get into My own pants
  19. #319
    daviddem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,505
    Location
    Philippines/Saudi Arabia
    Is there a way the PPA or the online players as a group could request from Stars and FTP to provide proof through an independant audit that they hold the players' money in accounts completely separate from their company's accounts, in cash or sufficiently liquid form such as money market shares, and are fully capable of paying back should ALL players want to cash out at one time?

    This would be beneficial to them as well, as it would have the effect to reassure the players that their funds are safe and prevent a "run on the bank".
    Last edited by daviddem; 04-17-2011 at 03:13 AM.
    Virginity is like a bubble: one prick and it's all gone
    Ignoranus (n): A person who is stupid AND an assh*le
  20. #320
    This will be a nice stress test for the liquidity of PS' and FT's funds. I imagine if they are prepared to disguise the nature of fund transfers from the government, they probably aren't adhering to liquidity laws either.
  21. #321
    rpm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    3,084
    Location
    maaaaaaaaaaate
    ^^ that's what scares me.
  22. #322
    daviddem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,505
    Location
    Philippines/Saudi Arabia
    As mentioned earlier in this thread, the "liquidity law" is not a US one, it seems to be a regulation from the Isle of Man where the companies are registered. I would dare to hope that they adhere to the laws of the country in which their company is registered...
    Virginity is like a bubble: one prick and it's all gone
    Ignoranus (n): A person who is stupid AND an assh*le
  23. #323
    rpm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    3,084
    Location
    maaaaaaaaaaate
    ^^ that's what comforts me.

    (obviously i have no idea about this shit. poker is legal in my country and i have never had to look far into the legality of the financial transactions/poker sites etc. traditionally, i've just typed in how much money i want to put on there, pressed enter. then bought into my chosen poker games a few seconds later)
  24. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddem View Post
    As mentioned earlier in this thread, the "liquidity law" is not a US one, it seems to be a regulation from the Isle of Man where the companies are registered. I would dare to hope that they adhere to the laws of the country in which their company is registered...
    UK based on Isle of Man (small island of the mainland), which is full of tax avoiding companies. All pefectly legal.

    Its been noticable how much they've been vamping up advertising in the UK - loads of TV shows, TV ads etc. Really pushing the European market.

    They've known the US was gonna pull the plug fro a while. I would guess they have no actual worries about being taken to court or anything. They're a UK based company, so (from my limited knowledge) I can't see what the US courts can actually do to them. Obv other than stop US players playing.

    Give it a couple of months and they'll be Pstars and Fulltilt, US based, paying US taxes.
    Normski
  25. #325
    Well no sign of the money yet from Stars in my Neteller account. Usually it's there in the morning if I try withdraw the previous evening.

    A point worth noting is that 14 bank accounts (some international ones too) have been frozen. Presumably that means even if they have a 1:1 liquidity ratio, that's going to put them under some financial pressure if a lot of folks put in withdraw requests. In a couple of days, if people don't get paid out, they will realise something is wrong and the panic will set in e.g. Northern Rock in the UK.

    I guess now probably isn't the time to start questioning these things, but you begin to wonder what is happening with your cash when you deposit it at Stars or Full Tilt. It seems unlikely to me that all of it is sitting in liquid investments. The problem with liquid investments is that you get lower returns on the investment because it's not a guaranteed investment. These companies aren't well regulated so what difference does it make if half the pool of cash is in some long-term investments. I mean, it's not like that cash is ever used, right?

    It seems odd that the owners of FT and PS appeared to out of the US when the shit hit the fan on Friday. They had a HU on the bust?
  26. #326
    Oh and as for the liquidity law - I believe this standard with Gambling companies in UK. We have a long history of gambling in this country. We have 2-3 bookies on every high st, so they are just seen as normal companies.

    The money being held (as far as I know) is not an actual asset that can be counted as the company's. It is kept seperatly and not counted on the bookie's net worth. Otherwise their net worth would look huge - but infact its a "liquid" asset.

    So yes - all the money held by Stars would be completely seperate and safe....(I think)
    Normski
  27. #327
    rpm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    3,084
    Location
    maaaaaaaaaaate
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakamura View Post
    Well no sign of the money yet from Stars in my Neteller account. Usually it's there in the morning if I try withdraw the previous evening.
    as much as i know next to nothing about any of the relevant concepts to understanding this recent debacle, couldn't this be very feasibly explained by an influx of cashout requests being dealt with by the site?
  28. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by rpm View Post
    as much as i know next to nothing about any of the relevant concepts to understanding this recent debacle, couldn't this be very feasibly explained by an influx of cashout requests being dealt with by the site?
    Yes, I'm not really worried yet. It makes sense to pay as many people out as they can to control the situation.
  29. #329
    From the wiki page on online poker...

    (How online poker rooms profit)

    "Fourth, like almost all institutions that hold money, online poker sites invest the money that players deposit. Regulations in most jurisdictions exist in an effort to limit the sort of risks sites can take with their clients' money. However, since the sites do not have to pay interest on players' bankrolls even low-risk investments can be a significant source of revenue."

    Bearing in mind that PokerStars is based in the Isle of Man, one of the most regulated tax havens in the world, I'd say player balances are absolutely safe. It's likely that our money is sitting in a high interest bank account in Switzerland, where PS have immediate access to it.

    FTP is based in the Channel Islands, another heavily-regulated British offshore tax haven.

    Anyone who still uses the Cereus Poker Network (Absolute Poker & Ultimate Bet) after the cheating scandal of 2003 does not gain any sympathy off me if they are worried about their bankroll. They are based in Canada, I have no idea how well regulated Canada is (I imagine very well regulated, like the UK), though I would be concerned about the Canadian government's relationship with the USA, and if the USA are able to bully Canada into getting their way.

    The Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are self governing Crown Dependancies, they are not obliged to follow mainland UK policy, so even if the UK changes it's policy to suit America (which we won't), it will take time for these changes to be accepted into law in the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, if at all they are accepted.

    Honestly, I don't think people need to worry about their funds, even Americans. The US govt certainly does not have access to, nor any right to claim, our bankrolls. I'm leaving mine on stars unless it looks like the site is going down, which I just can't see happening with the massive number of non-USA players still able and willing to play there. Stars will remain the largest poker room imo, and the rich pros of America are likely to leave for Europe. Small-time players in America who can't relocate, or are unwilling to, will just end up paying tax probably. All the US govt want is a slice of the cake.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  30. #330
    Well this has been a weekend that's been depressing and mindblowingly beyond belief. I did have a really nice live score on Black Friday, but I'm expecting my games to get a hella lot tougher now.

    I finally bought an iphone and I'm off on vacation for a few days -- best timing ever. Will be good to get away and have a new toy to play with.

    I am backing a friend who has most of his net worth stuck on FullTilt in a live donkament today. Part of our arrangement is that he'll return the favor when I need it, as I suspect I will at some point.

    It'll be nice if I wake up Monday on the beach and learn there was some sort of minor good news. I wish all of you/us some life run good and will be back on soon.
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  31. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by baudib View Post
    Well this has been a weekend that's been depressing and mindblowingly beyond belief. I did have a really nice live score on Black Friday, but I'm expecting my games to get a hella lot tougher now.

    I finally bought an iphone and I'm off on vacation for a few days -- best timing ever. Will be good to get away and have a new toy to play with.

    I am backing a friend who has most of his net worth stuck on FullTilt in a live donkament today. Part of our arrangement is that he'll return the favor when I need it, as I suspect I will at some point.

    It'll be nice if I wake up Monday on the beach and learn there was some sort of minor good news. I wish all of you/us some life run good and will be back on soon.
    Lol if I didn't know better I would have thought I posted this myself. In the exact same boat as you right now minus the staking and live score.
  32. #332
    I can still play cash games on UB. Full Tilt will not even get past the updater. Pokerstars will not let me play real money, but I can still play play money. This seriously sucks. I miss my Fulltilt!
  33. #333
    kmind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    5,612
    Location
    Not Giving In
    Quote Originally Posted by Openside View Post
    I am reading online that ppl having this issue need to uninstall and download the client from .uk
    Can someone tell me the exact address please?
  34. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by kmind View Post
    Can someone tell me the exact address please?
    Online Poker - Play Online at Full Tilt Poker Room
    Quote Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
    Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.

    blog: http://donkeybrainspoker.com/


    Watch me stream $200 hyper HU and $100 Spins on Twitch!
  35. #335
    dev's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,624
    Location
    swonging and swonging
    Quote Originally Posted by OngBonga View Post
    All the US govt want is a slice of the cake.
    This may be true but the US gov't doesn't act rationally or even in it's own best interests. If it did online poker would have been regulated a decade ago or more and we would have some clue of what the IRS wants us to put on our tax forms.
    Check out my self-deprecation here!
  36. #336
    RE: Ongbonga's post, I had thought that Cereus was actually based out of Kahnawake, which is a native reservation outside of Montreal; so as for conforming to Canadian law... nah.

    I'd also thought that poker is still very much a legal gray area at this point in time; i.e. one can't just open up a poker site here and apply for a license or whatever.

    Correct me if I'm wrong on either count, though.
  37. #337
    kmind's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    5,612
    Location
    Not Giving In
    Quote Originally Posted by courtiebee View Post
    Thanks Courtney. Also fulltiltpoker.org should work.
  38. #338
    Thanks for the link. I can now get in and see the games, but still cannot play real cash. I wonder if there is a way to change your IP add to somewhere in beautiful UK?
  39. #339
    In the end, it is very likely that this will push things to the point that we finally get a clear ruling on the grey legal area under which online poker has fallen since at least 2000. Hopefully, it can pave the way to an open and regulated online poker industry throughout the US.

    US Players, if there is anyway you can participate in the plan to phone ALL US congress members repeatedly about this issue for the next week, PLEASE do so. Details, tips on what to say, and phone numbers to call are up at http://www.pokerxanadu.com/actionplan.htm
    I run a training site...

    Check out strategy videos at GrinderSchool.com, from $10 / month.
  40. #340


    Rats.
  41. #341
    supa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,529
    Location
    At the bar drinking whisky with an "e"
    Any chance we can get a sticky with all the pertinent links like GS jeffs above? I think Boog had a link to contact congressmen and I have no idea what I may have missed. Just so we can have everything on one page and everyone can do their part a little easier.

    Also, if there's anything that I can do I can volunteer some time to FTR or related entities, I'm not really good at anything but wtf, I'd like to help if I can.
    “Right thoughts produce right actions and right actions produce work which will be a material reflection for others to see of the serenity at the center of it all”

    Put hero on a goddamn range part II- The 6max years

    Quote Originally Posted by d0zer View Post
    start using your brain more and vagina less

    Quote Originally Posted by kingnat View Post
    Members who's signature is a humorous quote about his/herself made by someone who is considered a notable member of the FTR community to give themselves a sense of belonging.
  42. #342
    BooG690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    5,090
    Location
    I am Queens Blvd.
    Quote Originally Posted by supahaole View Post
    I think Boog had a link to contact congressmen and I have no idea what I may have missed.
    http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ad-186850.html
    That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.
  43. #343
    supa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,529
    Location
    At the bar drinking whisky with an "e"
    Thanks Boog, but my point is that if we can get all of the info in one spot, alot of us can be more productive in making this stuff happen.

    The link is great but knowing what to say to our congress people would make a world of difference. Standing at the door screaming "I want my Miracle Whip!" isn't gonna get much done.

    I guess the PPA probably has more info and I'll try to find a link, but having all of that in the same place seems to make the most sense to me.
    “Right thoughts produce right actions and right actions produce work which will be a material reflection for others to see of the serenity at the center of it all”

    Put hero on a goddamn range part II- The 6max years

    Quote Originally Posted by d0zer View Post
    start using your brain more and vagina less

    Quote Originally Posted by kingnat View Post
    Members who's signature is a humorous quote about his/herself made by someone who is considered a notable member of the FTR community to give themselves a sense of belonging.
  44. #344
    I personally am not attempting to remove any funds off of any of the sites. Getting your money stuck in limbo would be the absolute worst thing ever (only applies to US).

    I also worry about how much emailing and calling will really do. Sadly I have no better alternative ...Good luck to everyone during this pile of shit scenario. It was very much not needed and could have been handled in a much better fashion (morally).
  45. #345
    DAY 2 QJ LIVE SHOW on USTREAM: BLACK FRIDAY.

    very good listen, especially right now.
    derp
  46. #346
    supa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    3,529
    Location
    At the bar drinking whisky with an "e"
    Quote Originally Posted by supahaole View Post
    Thanks Boog, but my point is that if we can get all of the info in one spot, alot of us can be more productive in making this stuff happen.

    The link is great but knowing what to say to our congress people would make a world of difference. Standing at the door screaming "I want my Miracle Whip!" isn't gonna get much done.

    I guess the PPA probably has more info and I'll try to find a link, but having all of that in the same place seems to make the most sense to me.
    PPA: Action Center

    Click link, edit message (or not), send.
    “Right thoughts produce right actions and right actions produce work which will be a material reflection for others to see of the serenity at the center of it all”

    Put hero on a goddamn range part II- The 6max years

    Quote Originally Posted by d0zer View Post
    start using your brain more and vagina less

    Quote Originally Posted by kingnat View Post
    Members who's signature is a humorous quote about his/herself made by someone who is considered a notable member of the FTR community to give themselves a sense of belonging.
  47. #347
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    8,697
    Location
    soaking up ethanol, moving on up
    latest update from FTP includes this popup


    stars games are looking better than ftp games right now
  48. #348
    daviddem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,505
    Location
    Philippines/Saudi Arabia
    Disclaimer: this may be an extremely bad idea, and may get you in trouble (and it might not work)

    If you are a US player and you can't play and your funds are blocked in FTP or PS, you *could* try to use a VPN to fake being in Europe or elsewhere in the world. If the only method used by the poker rooms to determine your location is IP geolocation, it will work. Im my experience, that is what they do in normal cicumstances to decide if you are eligible to play in some regional tournaments or your country is restricted from playing on the site, etc. However in this case I am not sure whether they took extra precautions such as looking at registered addresses and origin of your deposits.

    Regardless, it may be a bad idea as you would be breaking the law and the regulations of the poker rooms. Just giving the info in case you want to take the chance. Just Google "VPN providers" and you shall find. At some point I was using UltraVPN to play from Saudi Arabia and the Philippines and was happy with their price and service, but there are many others out there. I now have set up my own OpenVPN server on the router of my parents' house in Belgium, so when I need to I connect to it for free. Other advantage is that their IP is never going to make it to some blacklist of commercial VPN providers... So if you have knowledgeable friends in Europe who are willing to share a bit of their bandwidth with you, that would be the way to go.
    Last edited by daviddem; 04-17-2011 at 06:55 PM.
    Virginity is like a bubble: one prick and it's all gone
    Ignoranus (n): A person who is stupid AND an assh*le
  49. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by Penneywize View Post
    RE: Ongbonga's post, I had thought that Cereus was actually based out of Kahnawake, which is a native reservation outside of Montreal; so as for conforming to Canadian law... nah.
    .
    This is absolutely correct. (Pardon the pun)

    They are outside the jurisdiction of Canadian law enforcement. They are self governed and self policed.
  50. #350
    Not the greatest site out there, but Bodog is still open to US players and you can get money off easily and quickly. I have played there and also cashed out successfully in the last 24 hours. Not sure how deposits would work, but its worth a shot if you really want to play. It is a pretty soft site if you can deal with the awful software and poor MTT structures. Cash games are fine so long as you are ok with no more than 4 tables and terrible rakeback
  51. #351
    Damnit, I just got back in town. I was pissed that I couldn't play while I was gone. Now, I see I couldn't have played anyway.

    Since I can still access the PS client, I made screenshots on my cashier page, etc. It probably won't do much good in claiming money later, but at least I'll have the memories.
    Explain...what I do for a living without saying "I make monies in da 600 enels by pwnin' tha donk bitches". Instead I say "I'm a online financial redistribution broker". - Sasquach991
  52. #352
    lolzzz_321's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    7,476
    Location
    My ice is polarized
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddem View Post
    Disclaimer: this may be an extremely bad idea, and may get you in trouble (and it might not work)

    If you are a US player and you can't play and your funds are blocked in FTP or PS, you *could* try to use a VPN to fake being in Europe or elsewhere in the world. If the only method used by the poker rooms to determine your location is IP geolocation, it will work. Im my experience, that is what they do in normal cicumstances to decide if you are eligible to play in some regional tournaments or your country is restricted from playing on the site, etc. However in this case I am not sure whether they took extra precautions such as looking at registered addresses and origin of your deposits.

    Regardless, it may be a bad idea as you would be breaking the law and the regulations of the poker rooms. Just giving the info in case you want to take the chance. Just Google "VPN providers" and you shall find. At some point I was using UltraVPN to play from Saudi Arabia and the Philippines and was happy with their price and service, but there are many others out there. I now have set up my own OpenVPN server on the router of my parents' house in Belgium, so when I need to I connect to it for free. Other advantage is that their IP is never going to make it to some blacklist of commercial VPN providers... So if you have knowledgeable friends in Europe who are willing to share a bit of their bandwidth with you, that would be the way to go.
    Did you play at Pstars or FTP?

    Pstars Rep said they have sophisticated means of seeing where you're at - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=987
  53. #353
    "With the seizure of the websites, it is unclear what will happen to the funds of U.S. players who have accounts on the websites. In 2007, NETELLER, a firm that handled online gambling transactions, was charged by prosecutors from the New York U.S. Attorney's Office but entered into a deferred prosecution agreement with the U.S. government and returned such funds to their owners."

    Internet Poker Companies Indicted for Fraud, Money Laundering - ABC News
    Explain...what I do for a living without saying "I make monies in da 600 enels by pwnin' tha donk bitches". Instead I say "I'm a online financial redistribution broker". - Sasquach991
  54. #354
    lol FTR is such a euro site
  55. #355
    I don't even know where to start here... I can't say this with 100% certainty, but if you are in the US and you have $$ on Stars or Tilt, you should have access to your funds within a reasonable amount of time (3-6 months max?) if you don't already. Typically, the way businesses operate that have a significant amount of $$ that isn't "theirs" is they need to keep those funds completely separate from money used to operate their day to day business in escrow or trust accounts, but this could be entirely different where Stars and Tilt are incorporated. Any lawsuit/sanctions/fines etc would have to be paid by their operating funds, not by money they hold for other people.

    I work for a payment processor in the US. We did process for N3T3ller up until that shit hit the fan. It was definitely a couple of interesting days when all that came down. I can't really talk about any of that on here, but if anyone wants to discuss anything about it further, feel free to PM me.
  56. #356
    daviddem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,505
    Location
    Philippines/Saudi Arabia
    Quote Originally Posted by lolzzz_321 View Post
    Did you play at Pstars or FTP?

    Pstars Rep said they have sophisticated means of seeing where you're at - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=987
    Before the events, this VPN thing was for sure working on FTP and Titan Poker. Never tried it on PS.

    Of course they can always blacklist the known public/commercial VPN IP addresses or run some detection of active OpenVPN processes on your machine via the poker client. But I am pretty sure there are ways around this, like using a private VPN server (can't be blacklisted) or preventing detection of the running OpenVPN processes on your machine.

    I am in the Philippines now and I just connected to my account on PS through my VPN server in Belgium. It works and I didn't get any kind of warning message about running openVPN processes. Haven't yet tried registering into a Belgium or Benelux only tourney, because there is none open for registration at this time. Might give that a go later.

    As far as I know, openVPN is transparent, so from the poker server viewpoint everything happens exactly as if the poker client was running on the openVPN server machine, wherever that machine is located. So in other words, only IP banning of public servers and poker client-side detection would be possible. Of course, if you start doing stupid sh*t like connecting without VPN from a US IP and the next minute connect through your VPN server in Europe, that is detectable from the Poker server side with appropriate routines. Then it would mean you would have traveled from the US to Europe in that one minute, or that you are sharing your account with some Euro guy...
    Last edited by daviddem; 04-18-2011 at 12:47 AM.
    Virginity is like a bubble: one prick and it's all gone
    Ignoranus (n): A person who is stupid AND an assh*le
  57. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddem View Post
    Before the events, this VPN thing was for sure working on FTP and Titan Poker. Never tried it on PS.
    When FTP and PS quit in washington I could play on my FTP account while in europe when it was still registered to my Washington address but i had to verify my residence in europe before I could play on stars again.
  58. #358
    daviddem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,505
    Location
    Philippines/Saudi Arabia
    Quote Originally Posted by dneureiter View Post
    When FTP and PS quit in washington I could play on my FTP account while in europe when it was still registered to my Washington address but i had to verify my residence in europe before I could play on stars again.
    OK so it means that a player registered in the US and on a trip abroad cannot play on Pokestars at all? Pretty restrictive if you ask me and nice way to loose customers.
    Virginity is like a bubble: one prick and it's all gone
    Ignoranus (n): A person who is stupid AND an assh*le
  59. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddem View Post
    OK so it means that a player registered in the US and on a trip abroad cannot play on Pokestars at all? Pretty restrictive if you ask me and nice way to loose customers.
    I remember hearing you could withdraw money if you lived in WA state, but had to play outside the state borders to earn the money to withdraw in the first place.

    Now you take it outside an entire country, that could be a lot tougher obviously. But in the end, wouldn't you need to prove you lived in a country acceptable to play in, in order to withdraw money at all? Connecting to the servers you're talking about could work in order to play, but when you wanted to withdraw, would it matter if you masked the IP or would you need to prove you lived in a non US (or any non-barred country)?
  60. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    I remember hearing you could withdraw money if you lived in WA state, but had to play outside the state borders to earn the money to withdraw in the first place.

    Now you take it outside an entire country, that could be a lot tougher obviously. But in the end, wouldn't you need to prove you lived in a country acceptable to play in, in order to withdraw money at all? Connecting to the servers you're talking about could work in order to play, but when you wanted to withdraw, would it matter if you masked the IP or would you need to prove you lived in a non US (or any non-barred country)?
    yea good point obv. Also it's illegal for a u.s. citizen to play poker, pretty sure it doesnt matter that they are out of the country. I had to prove residence before I could play on stars again (from a euro ip address). The withdrawing money thing was different in washington because pokerstars chose to stop offering their services there but they werent actually getting prosecuted, I got my money in the bank a few days after that happened.
  61. #361
    daviddem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,505
    Location
    Philippines/Saudi Arabia
    So let me get this right: apparently it is illegal for an American resident to play on Pokerstars. It is apparently not illegal for an American citizen residing in Europe, since what they require is proof of residency, not proof of citizenship. However, a European residing in Europe but visiting in the US supposedly also cannot access real money games because the IP he connects from in the US would be blocked to do so.

    So what's the score here and what are the rules and how are they enforced? I argue that if I have provided proof of European residency (even if I am a US citizen), but am currently visiting in the US, then I should be allowed to log into my account and play real money games without breaking the law and without having to use deceptive tactics such as connecting through a VPN.
    Virginity is like a bubble: one prick and it's all gone
    Ignoranus (n): A person who is stupid AND an assh*le
  62. #362
    bigred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    15,437
    Location
    Nest of Douchebags
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddem View Post
    So what's the score here and what are the rules and how are they enforced? I argue that if I have provided proof of European residency (even if I am a US citizen), but am currently visiting in the US, then I should be allowed to log into my account and play real money games without breaking the law and without having to use deceptive tactics such as connecting through a VPN.
    Sounds like too much work to regulate for the amount of players who will fall into this category.
    LOL OPERATIONS
  63. #363
    bigred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    15,437
    Location
    Nest of Douchebags
    Well, Happy Monday. Perhaps we'll get some more information instead of just speculation since the world has returned from the weekend.
    LOL OPERATIONS
  64. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Penneywize View Post
    RE: Ongbonga's post, I had thought that Cereus was actually based out of Kahnawake, which is a native reservation outside of Montreal; so as for conforming to Canadian law... nah.

    I'd also thought that poker is still very much a legal gray area at this point in time; i.e. one can't just open up a poker site here and apply for a license or whatever.

    Correct me if I'm wrong on either count, though.
    I have no idea, to be honest. All I know about Kahnawake is that it's near Quebec, and I know a big fat fuck all about Canadian law in pretty much every area. I didn't really bother to look anything up regarding Kahnawake, I was focussing more on the UK dependancies where PS and FTP are based, since I'm more familiar with the status of these locations.
    Quote Originally Posted by wufwugy View Post
    ongies gonna ong
  65. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by daviddem View Post
    OK so it means that a player registered in the US and on a trip abroad cannot play on Pokestars at all? Pretty restrictive if you ask me and nice way to loose customers.
    You're forgetting the security side of things here. If your poker account is logged into from some random IP address in Europe then their first thought is fraud. It's definitely to the customer's benefit that they have such measures in place.
  66. #366
    daviddem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,505
    Location
    Philippines/Saudi Arabia
    Sounds like too much work to regulate for the amount of players who will fall into this category.
    The point I was trying to make is that filtering only by IP geolocation is inefficient (easily circumvented by VPN's) and unfair (some players, though a minority, should be allowed to play from the barred location because the restriction should not apply to them as they are not residents or citizens of the location they play from).

    Filtering only by requiring proof of residency/ID's etc is also phony because open to frauds such as people taking temporary residence abroad, duly registering their accounts and then moving back to where they come from and play from there, without notifying the poker room of the change, or people opening accounts for others into leniant countries for a vig.

    If you combine both of the above solutions, what you get is the likes of France, where France-residing players can only play from France with other France-residing players currently being in France. Pretty sad and by the way also open to fraud via a combination of VPN's and same account trafficing as above: players residing abroad can play on pokerstars.fr through a French VPN server on accounts opened for them by French residents. More importantly, other way works as well: French players can (and do) still play on pokerstars.com through accounts opened for them from abroad by a third party and then connecting to this account through a VPN server located in that country. The third party also handles deposits and withdrawals from the poker room.

    Let's face it, the whole point here is tax money. Governments see these billions of raked dollars and cannot get their hand in the eggs basket, that's what pisses them off. And I guess it's fair enough.

    I think a hint of a solution for keeping online poker truly global is via an international treaty, in which participating countries would get their fair share of tax prorata of what residents from that country have raked or whatever. At the same time the agreement should strongly regulate what poker rooms can and cannot do, penalties for cheats, rake, getting rid of that affiliates' system nonsense, etc.

    You're forgetting the security side of things here. If your poker account is logged into from some random IP address in Europe then their first thought is fraud. It's definitely to the customer's benefit that they have such measures in place.
    Really, so people who travel or go on holiday should be assumed to be cheats and fraud can only occur from abroad? What if you connect with your laptop from the Starbucks next door? Should you also be assumed to be a cheat? If not, could a cheat not possibly hack your account from the Starbucks next door? Besides such cheats being abroad could also use the VPN technique to appear to be in the country of origin of the account they hacked. So from a security perspective, filtering by IP geolocation is very inefficient.

    A more efficient way to improve security would possibly be to allow an account to play only from a few unique poker clients strictly linked to that one account (for example one from your desktop, one from your laptop and one from the desktop of your secondary residence). Each poker client would be made unique by using a specific encryption key linked to a single account (or a few of them: yours and your wife's for example) during an adequate registration and verification process.
    Last edited by daviddem; 04-18-2011 at 10:12 AM.
    Virginity is like a bubble: one prick and it's all gone
    Ignoranus (n): A person who is stupid AND an assh*le
  67. #367
    bode's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    8,043
    Location
    slow motion
    god damn Fnords "skyisfallingcashoutnow" posts ITT tilted the fuck out of me. i have less than $1k left online between PS and FTP, but i dont know why anyone in the US would think there is any chance trying to cash anything out between friday and now would be a good idea.
    eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
  68. #368
    bigred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    15,437
    Location
    Nest of Douchebags
    IP filtering is an easy way to show due diligence (hey gov'ment we tried to enforce your laws) without having to invest a ton of money into new technology and/or employee overhead for things like residency verification, etc.

    I'm not saying its fair, just simple.

    Also, @ your response to second quote, it was stated that the first thought is a hacked account...not the final conclusion. I think that is a fair and accurate statement.

    I think a lot of your arguments, while they may be logical and probably makes sense, are very specific and may not make sense implementing from the perspective of a large scale company given the current state of affairs and industry regulation.
    LOL OPERATIONS
  69. #369
    redih's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    49
    Location
    Cumberland, Maryland
    Time to hit up Foxwoods while my "bank" PS account based out of France waits for cashout request to go. Only keeping 10% of my roll in my US based account after the scare 3 years ago was a smart idea.

    They'll get you your money, PS called Friday to let everybody know what was going on. It'll take a while though, they've known it was coming for a while.
    Trust your parachute.
  70. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by lolzzz_321 View Post
    Did you play at Pstars or FTP?

    Pstars Rep said they have sophisticated means of seeing where you're at - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=987
    FWIW VPNs do work and its how people have managed to multi account. Sure some have been caught but I would have to say the majority haven't. Unless PS has some hackers who are frequently able to crack connections seen fit by most online banking institutions (128bit). Also, you can get higher encryptions still (2048bit) which is typically used by NASA or other gov operations and is considered almost uncrackable (unless you have 4 lifetimes+ to dedicate).

    The big part is cashing out since you have have to change your residency and get a bank within your new claimed area. Getting an off shore bank account isn't the easiest since you typically have to show where you live OR you list you are from the USA. Either way a good majority of off shore banks will comply with USA if they ask for documents regarding one of their citizens committing fraudulent activity.

    I do not recommend going through this hassle and it is obviously illegal. It is possible but you have to go through a lot. If you make enough to where it is worth it, just move to a new country. If it is not worth it based on how much you make playing poker. Your better off going for a career change IMO or start crushing live.
  71. #371
    bikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    7,423
    Location
    house
    dear everyone. let me emphasis this in the most clear way I can.


    DONT FUCKING USE A VPN

    if you don't know exactly what you are doing you could make the current situation a lot worse for yourself. possibly leading to even more extreme wait times for your monies or a forfeiture of those monies. who knows, given the current events, what kind of penalties they would inflict on you if caught.
  72. #372
    spoonitnow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    14,219
    Location
    North Carolina
    Quote Originally Posted by bikes View Post
    dear everyone. let me emphasis this in the most clear way I can.


    DONT FUCKING USE A VPN

    if you don't know exactly what you are doing you could make the current situation a lot worse for yourself. possibly leading to even more extreme wait times for your monies or a forfeiture of those monies. who knows, given the current events, what kind of penalties they would inflict on you if caught.
    +1
  73. #373
    daviddem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    1,505
    Location
    Philippines/Saudi Arabia
    Quote Originally Posted by bigred View Post
    IP filtering is an easy way to show due diligence (hey gov'ment we tried to enforce your laws) without having to invest a ton of money into new technology and/or employee overhead for things like residency verification, etc.

    I'm not saying its fair, just simple.

    Also, @ your response to second quote, it was stated that the first thought is a hacked account...not the final conclusion. I think that is a fair and accurate statement.

    I think a lot of your arguments, while they may be logical and probably makes sense, are very specific and may not make sense implementing from the perspective of a large scale company given the current state of affairs and industry regulation.
    The trouble is that what we seem to be poised for is the French model. IMHO this is the most likely short term resolution of the current US problem, and that is the one several other countries have already adopted or are currently considering. This makes the business of the government and should at least partially content whichever poker rooms will be running the show. But what of us, the players? Is a secluded and partioned poker world what we want for the future? Don't think so. Although I guess it's better than nothing, I wouldn't want to settle for that without at least trying to get something going towards a truly global, properly regulated online poker world.
    Virginity is like a bubble: one prick and it's all gone
    Ignoranus (n): A person who is stupid AND an assh*le
  74. #374
    BooG690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    5,090
    Location
    I am Queens Blvd.
    That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.
  75. #375
    Lukie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    10,758
    Location
    Never read any stickies or announcements
    edited because I don't want to add to the hysteria.

    suffice it to say, I think using a VPN is a very bad idea.
    Last edited by Lukie; 04-18-2011 at 12:59 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •