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A discussion on the iopq ban

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a500lbgorilla

10-01-2009, 09:06 PM Post subject: A discussion on the iopq ban

#1 (permalink)

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You can post complaints or questions, and I’ll try to respond to everyone.

Iopq’s ban was addition by subtraction for FTR. Over the past so many years, the topic of iopq’s quality has been breached privately between the moderators several times. He’s been given warnings, complaints and the like through several channels, but never a classic strike.

Recently, the commune enjoyed iopq’s destruction in the God thread. At that point I sent Xianti a pm saying something like “Any timetable on the ignore user function (we wont be seeing it for some time, I found out.) and I’m gonna ban iopq soon. I wanted to give you the heads up.”

Xianti agreed. It was just a straw that broke the camels back scenario.

The real mistakes were how I handled it publicly. I wanted to give him a 24 hour warning before I banned him and decided the most entertaining route was Round 11. At the time, I thought it would be highly amusing way of showing him the door. But of course, in execution, it looks like a hasty grudge banning.

The delay for this announcement revolved around the fact that the initial decision was between just Xianti and I. Xman assumed I would simply go the route of making an announcement saying “iopq was banned for a career of bringing down the quality of the forums.” Once xman saw how poorly the banning appeared, which is that I didn’t agree with iopq’s political views and banned him for it, we had to open up a mod’s discussion on the possibility of reversing the ban.

The final decision is that iopq was bad for the forums and his removal will stand.

I do need to apologize for the disrespect I showed the forums. In my mind, I didn’t think you all needed a clear and concise reason for his banning. Once I got an ok from Xman, I wanted that to be all anyone needed. I would generally much prefer having a little fun with it than running out an (edit) long announcement. I apologize for making it seem as if it was a snap decision. It’s been a banning that the admins have seen coming for quite some time. The timing of the ban is largely arbitrary. With iopq, unless he stopped posting, his eventual banning was a fore-gone conclusion.

I am sorry for making it seem like a new totalitarian regime of renegade admins was cracking down on allowing you to say and do whatever you want on these forums. I also apologize for making it appear that the admins do not respect the rules and traditions of the forums.

Any questions, concerns, opinions, whatever, please post here.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

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10-01-2009, 09:14 PM Post subject: Re: A discussion on the iopq ban

#2 (permalink)

Straight

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Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I do need to apologize for the disrespect I showed the forums. In my mind, I didn’t think you all needed a clear and concise reason for his banning.

I fully agree with this statement

BennyLaRue

10-01-2009, 09:27 PM Post subject: Re: A discussion on the iopq ban

#3 (permalink)

Full House

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BennyLaRue is a glorious beacon of light

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Any questions, concerns, opinions, whatever, please post here.

Gauge the secret moddy discussions on the DEFCON scale fo me, how close am I to being banned?

Muzzard

10-01-2009, 09:28 PM

#4 (permalink)

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+ 1 for IOPQ's ban, he was a fucking social retard.

Yeah he beat 100nl or whatever, but he polluted pretty much every thread with some dumb shit. Glad he's gone. I might actually post again now.

a500lbgorilla

10-01-2009, 09:29 PM

#5 (permalink)

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I don't know the DEFCON scale. If 1 is you're off the radar and 100 is I'm editing your account right now, 0.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

jyms

10-01-2009, 09:30 PM

#6 (permalink)

Tilting Mod

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I have started posting and reading more in both the SHNL and the BC forums again.

YouTube - Classified - "Oh... Canada" [Official Video]

BooG690

10-01-2009, 09:31 PM

#7 (permalink)

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So that means that this is the new official "iopq jokes" thread?

I'm not really gonna crack any jokes. I'd just like to post up a picture:

That'll be my version of "flowers" on iopq's virtual grave.

Thank you rilla for that explanation. I'd like an FTR hoodie for creating a way (the God thread) to get the iopq ban going. I'm a large. I'll be waiting. Thank you.

That's how winners play; we convince the other guy he's making all the right moves.

a500lbgorilla

10-01-2009, 09:32 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Muzzard

+ 1 for IOPQ's ban, he was a fucking social retard.

Yeah he beat 100nl or whatever, but he polluted pretty much every thread with some dumb shit. Glad he's gone. I might actually post again now.

Unfortunately, no jokes are coming from me in this thread. Just the lame honesty that'll make FTR understand.

I do hope you post more.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

Xianti

10-01-2009, 09:47 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Thank you for taking the time to post this, rilla.

Muzzard

10-01-2009, 09:50 PM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

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I'm also hoping this will be a perma ban, unlike the cop-out that is dwarfman. i'm pretty sure he's posting here under another name.

a500lbgorilla

10-01-2009, 09:50 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Xianti

Thank you for taking the time to post this, rilla.

You're welcome.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

a500lbgorilla

10-01-2009, 09:54 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Muzzard

I'm also hoping this will be a perma ban, unlike the cop-out that is dwarfman. i'm pretty sure he's posting here under another name.

I'm sorry? I'm almost certain he isn't.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

daven

10-01-2009, 10:01 PM Post subject: Re: A discussion on the iopq ban

#13 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

You can post complaints or questions, and I’ll try to respond to everyone.

no questions, no complaints, just a couple of comments. I think that you already know that I think a ban inappropriate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Iopq’s ban was addition by subtraction for FTR. Over the past so many years, the topic of iopq’s quality has been breached. Recently, the commune enjoyed iopq’s destruction in the God thread.

vs, say, luckyslevin et al.
I note that this is a poker forum, and agree that his poker posts have been a mixed, although improving, bag - but that most have at the very least stimulated discussion of the type that is FTR's greatest weakness in comparison to, e.g., 2+2 (I'm basically quoting Renton here about the FTR weakness, I can find his post if need be). I also note that many FTR members are more concerned about poker than any other FTR content. I contend that his banning will net detract from the POKER content on this site.

it is also interesting to run a search on your posts rilla, and look at all the poker content over the last few months...

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

The real mistakes were how I handled it publicly. But of course, in execution, it looks like a hasty grudge banning.

Real mistakes:
1) The poll approach was poor judgement, yep
2) Taking so long to respond after promising an earlier response was also incredibly poor, in fact, your approach through this entire debacle has been indecent. Many will speculate that the only reason that the ban was not reversed is some sort of ego-war - how would it be for you if IOPQ could still post here, with a sig of the "suck on him/her rilla" variety.

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

The final decision is that iopq was bad for the forums and his removal will stand.

I'm curious about this. Especially after slevin style precedents. I would like to see the posts since, say, end-July '09 and outside of the commune that you refer to as being net bad for the forum. In fact, as this appears to be your brainchild, it would be appropriate for you to list these posts - and maybe even refute their content. Otherwise you'll be looking kinda like an imbecile. If you did list these posts and provide analysis on the content, this would be an amazing poker resource for FTR - I look forward to reading it.
An absence of such a piece of work will support the thesis that this is indeed about a personality conflict.

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I do need to apologize for the disrespect I showed the forums.

it wasn't about the giving or not giving an answer, it was the how you went about doing it. Ignoring messages/posts for a while was a good start.

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I also apologize for making it appear that the admins do not respect the rules and traditions of the forums.

only one admin looked like this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTR rules

1..... repeated rudeness and unhelpful, condescending remarks in any discussion will not be tolerated.
and 2..... If your comment could be seen as threatening, hateful or mean-spirited, it's probably not a good idea to post it.

e.g.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rilla

iopq, you should really be ashamed of every post you've made in this thread.

You're just dumb.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rilla

sorry, dude. But you're a good 4 years away from being able to understand anything I say (other than you're dumb).

You're dumb.

etc...

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTR rules

5. Ridiculing of members who have been disciplined is forbidden.

I don't even need to bother to find quotes.

I'm tired now, I may continue later.
I guess this is a complaint about your behaviour, exalted commune admin, especially in light of the forum rules you choose to ignore. This must be worth a strike or two, or? sorry, i said "no complaints, no questions" above. Oh well.

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

boost

10-01-2009, 10:05 PM

#14 (permalink)

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xiantis avatar combined with srsbsns posts is quite funny.

Xianti

10-01-2009, 10:19 PM

#15 (permalink)

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CHUCK NORRIS

a500lbgorilla

10-01-2009, 10:20 PM Post subject: Re: A discussion on the iopq ban

#16 (permalink)

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daven, I don't know how to best respond to you.

I had no idea that you felt personally slighted by how I ignored your posts. For the 2 days after the ban, I didn't have my usual freetime to hang around and post. I simply had to keep all the discussion consolidated and focused. Once the mods discussion of his possible unbanning sprouted, I couldn't have fractured conversations across two forums and my inbox. I'm sorry for any hurt feelings, that's just how I handled it.

I can assure you that iopq's banning was not ego-driven though it clearly appears that way. I don't know how to explain myself to you on this point.

And I won't be able to get into a detailed discussion of measuring the value of iopq and proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was bad for the forums. On this point, I can only bow to the scores of posters who stop reading and posting in the poker forums who cite him directly. I know you'll ask to name names and that you're out for a bit of blood. But what's done is done. Life moves on.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

Lukie

10-01-2009, 10:21 PM

#17 (permalink)

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... So what was the reason for banning him?

Seems like mob mentality to me, no offense. That you had to write up well worded, cleverly crafted full page summary while dancing around the issue kind of proves the point.

Whether or not a guy makes bad posts shouldn't be grounds to get them banned.

edit: specifically, it looks like he made a lot of posts people didn't agree with. Which is the direction my last sentence/paragraph was heading. My point still stands.

a500lbgorilla

10-01-2009, 10:24 PM

#18 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

Agreed. I don't consider myself the driving force behind his banning. I just happened to be in a position to actually ban him. I'm sure that doesn't sound good to anyone.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

daven

10-01-2009, 10:24 PM

#19 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

a500lbgorilla

10-01-2009, 10:28 PM

#20 (permalink)

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I disagree on the last point. Bad posters are bad for the forums. I can't say it much better than what UG said.

Quote:

Also, this made me think of my high school American History classroom at school. We have LOTS of discussions in my class about all sorts of different things. Four of my five classes freaking rock. I have all sorts of students asking great questions and giving great answers/opinions to each other. It's a sight to see and really is amazing how awesome those class periods can be.

Every year it seems I have one "dud" class, where the "loudest" voices are, to put it in a nice way, not the best or brightest students in the world (not even close for some of them). The discussions in this class are shit for various reasons. All it takes is one or sometimes two bad apples to make the entire classroom discussion go down hill. The smart kids that would normally have great things to share don't, or no longer share because the discussion isn't stimulating for them (therefore not worth having). That, or they know it'll end up in a huge clusterfuck so they have a "why bother" sort of attitude.

If I could get the "duds" out of my classroom so the experience was greater for my other 20-24 kids, I would in a heartbeat. Again, addition by subtraction.

This is my belief as well and the decision was supported by Xianti. Who, in the end, owns and runs this forum as he should see fit.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

boost

10-01-2009, 10:29 PM

#21 (permalink)

Full House

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

it shouldnt? I mean I dont think that the occasional bad post warrants a ban obviously, but overly active posters that never post good content can certainly drag a forum down... especially when the forums goal is to educate...

Lukie

10-01-2009, 10:30 PM

#22 (permalink)

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I want to make it clear that I"m not taking any sides here. I don't read enough of FTR anymore to say that he was or wasn't a good or bad poster. I don't think it's overly relevant though.

If you can clearly link me to a place where he's clearly breaking the rules or being a troll, fine. Obviously that isn't the case though, otherwise it would be in this thread.

It just seems like he took the differing/controversial viewpoint one too many times and he got bounced for it.

a500lbgorilla

10-01-2009, 10:32 PM

#23 (permalink)

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He wasn't banned for only his commune posting. It just so happened that my turn to bring up the idea of banning iopq was the straw that broke the camels back.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

Lukie

10-01-2009, 10:33 PM

#24 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

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re: rilla/boost, I knew someone was going to jump on the last line there, which is why I edited my post to try to clarify it.

It seems like you guys want to create a forum that is assimilated and where everyone thinks alike. Which is fine I guess if that's what you want. Whatever, I'm pretty much indifferent and just calling it like I see it.

Is there any reason why he was such a bad poster other than he had a controversial or differing viewpoint too much?

a500lbgorilla

10-01-2009, 10:40 PM

#25 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

It seems like you guys want to create a forum that is assimilated and where everyone thinks alike.

I'd like to think this is pretty much the opposite of our goals here.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

Xianti

10-01-2009, 10:40 PM

#26 (permalink)

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Posting nonsense in the Community forum is not even an issue here. A lot of good posters had stopped posting and/or reading the strategy forums because of iopq. It's my sincere hope that the quality posters who had had enough of iopq and simply stayed away will return to become active with good, quality content once again.

As far as dealing with Rilla's bad handling of this affair, that's between him and me, and it is being discussed.

Lukie

10-01-2009, 10:42 PM

#27 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Xianti

Fair enough, that is reasonable.

Rilla talking about it in the abstract was about to make my head asplode.

a500lbgorilla

10-01-2009, 10:44 PM

#28 (permalink)

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Im trying to avoid specific iopq bashing. Down that road lies madness.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

Lukie

10-01-2009, 10:51 PM

#29 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

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Trying to find a good MADNESS/SPARTA picture but I'm coming up blank. Damnit.

edit: wheeeeeeeeee http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/...35-madness.jpg

Keith

10-01-2009, 11:00 PM Post subject: Re: A discussion on the iopq ban

#30 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Iopq’s ban was addition by subtraction for FTR. Over the past so many years, the topic of iopq’s quality has been breached privately between the moderators several times. He’s been given warnings, complaints and the like through several channels, but never a classic strike.

From this statement, can we infer that we are unlikely to just be banned without warning. I have to admit to being slightly uneasy seeing a prolific poster on the site being banned without receiving strikes and it seems rilla accepts that the method taken to resolve the issue appeared badly executed in that to the great unwashed it seemed to be a moderator picking on a user.
Given that Jyms received a strike recently showing that even the mods arent above reproach , would it have caused a lot less hassle for rilla and the rest of the mods/admin if iopq had been given strikes with his warnings so that in effect it looked like he was being banned for multiple strikes rather than just an out of the blue ban.

a500lbgorilla

10-01-2009, 11:05 PM Post subject: Re: A discussion on the iopq ban

#31 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith_MM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Unless you're a spammer, obvious free-troll or go the way of dwarfman, you'll always receive plenty of fair warning.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

a500lbgorilla

10-01-2009, 11:20 PM

#32 (permalink)

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I have decided to step down as both forum admin and commune moderator.

With how this banning was handled, FTR doesn't benefit from an immature little jackass just having fun holding these positions. It was truly a seat of power held only on the merits of how many times I can click refresh in one day.

I will still field all responses. But I'm gonna go out and unwind a bit.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

GatorJH

10-01-2009, 11:26 PM

#33 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

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Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I have decided to step down as both forum admin and commune moderator.

This makes today a sad day in FTR history imo.

Poker is easy, it's winning at poker that's hard.

Galapogos

10-01-2009, 11:31 PM

#34 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I have decided to step down as both forum admin and commune moderator.

lol wtf? Because you did one thing that was not the best way to handle things?

You're still the lifeblood of the commune and have never done a bad thing as mod/admin. Learn from it and be better.

Lets turn this thread into a petition to stop the dethroning of 'rilla by --er 'rilla.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.

a500lbgorilla

10-01-2009, 11:35 PM

#35 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I have decided to step down as both forum admin and commune moderator.

My decision had nothing to do with this. I was offered a better position as an avid poster and FTR regular.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

Stacks

10-01-2009, 11:35 PM

#36 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by GatorJH

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I have decided to step down as both forum admin and commune moderator.

This makes today a sad day in FTR history imo.

+1

And I would have quoted Gala, but I despise him, so...

Xianti

10-01-2009, 11:44 PM

#37 (permalink)

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Rilla, I would agree to your stepping down as Administrator, but I plead with you to stay on as Moderator. There simply isn't a better person to moderate the Commune. This is your jungle, damnit! And you've never failed me as a Moderator.

...unless you have other personal reasons to give everything up, e.g., if real life has become too busy.

a500lbgorilla

10-01-2009, 11:49 PM

#38 (permalink)

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Alright, I'll gladly serve at the pleasure of the commune.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

a500lbgorilla

10-01-2009, 11:50 PM

#39 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

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Though, I was interested to see how {edited} would have ran this place.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

givememyleg

10-01-2009, 11:50 PM

#40 (permalink)

WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
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what is this, real life, you speak of?

Get your own badge! Click profile at the top and FTR Badge from the left nav.

"The Dragon in My Garage" by Carl Sagan
I say onto you, I've felt the dragon! I felt the touch of his tail, the breath of his fire, and I know without a shadow of a doubt that the dragon exists!

Xianti

10-01-2009, 11:54 PM

#41 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by givememyleg

what is this, real life, you speak of?

Only in real life, can you play Johnga.

boost

10-02-2009, 12:14 AM

#42 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Xianti

Quote:

Originally Posted by givememyleg

what is this, real life, you speak of?

Only in real life, can you play Johnga.

is that the thing where the tribal leader lets the explorer decide his fate, boiling cauldron or johnga which appears to be sex. Obv the explorer choses johnga, then the tribal leader is all like "fine then. DEATH BY JOHNGA!"

Ragnar4

10-02-2009, 12:35 AM

#43 (permalink)

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Swear to god Rilla if you 100% step down, I'm deleting my blog and liquidating my poker funds and spending it on lottery tickets! don't do it man... don't do it!

The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?

jjbish

10-02-2009, 12:58 AM

#44 (permalink)

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Although I'm not the most prolific poster, I visit FTR at least 6 of 7 days a week, and often several times a day. So maybe my voice isn't as loud as some.

But I can say, IMO:

I'm glad you're not totally leaving rilla.

Now I just need to work you becoming a Wings fan this season

NH, WP, GG, TY, Etc..........................

dranger7070

10-02-2009, 12:58 AM

#45 (permalink)

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Posts: 2,524

dranger7070 has a little shameless behaviour in the past

Lol, he already said he wasn't ffs.

(Thank god, cuz his lame humor sure makes dis feesh laugh.)

Sir Pawnalot

10-02-2009, 01:09 AM

#46 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: Norway

Posts: 668

Love you iopq

Is iopq just another story of an ostracised genius?

We had a lot of good poker discussions- him and I. I cannot speak on behalf of his winrates, but when I was an active player my winrates was better than most any online player in the world.

My point is: If I, one of the true greats of the game (IMHbutmaybenaiveO), can have fruitful discussions with him- how can he possibly drag the forum down quality wise?

I feel Davens´and Lukies´ posts and they resonate with my heart/intuition.

P.S 1: No need to flame it up Jyms and Muzzard, I already know you do not like my honest self appreciation.

P.S 2: I am drunk

P.S 3: Waste of time (Get it? Consoll games waste of time. Haha for explaining a bad joke- LOLZ IRL. yeah baby for being an online forum tard yo!

A foolish man learns nothing from his mistakes.
A smart man learns only from his own mistakes.
A wise man learns from his own mistakes, and those of the smart man and the fool.

griffey24

10-02-2009, 01:13 AM

#47 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Toronto'ish

Posts: 4,611

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pawnalot

but when I was an active player my winrates was better than most any online player in the world.

uhoh... this is gonna start somethin'....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Pawnalot

P.S 2: I am drunk

ok phew! that's goood

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay-Z

I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks

dranger7070

10-02-2009, 01:28 AM

#48 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy

Posts: 2,524

I heard Sir P offed himself when I was at boot. :/ Guess not lulz. And also lolz at "ostracised genius." (In terms of IOPQ, not u Sir P, with you i haz no comment as i havent read enuf of ur posts.)

wufwugy

10-02-2009, 01:33 AM

#49 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2006

Posts: 1,660

Wow, this went places it shouldn't have.

Guys, how is it not obvious that ipod got banned for reasons other than the Commune? Nobody here has ever seen anybody on any forum get banned just for posting stupid ideas in off topic forums. That's just not how it works. It was clearly the fact that he was causing problems in other forums.

And he also did nothing to benefit the strategy forums. The guy is a moron who does nothing but post the same garbage over and over no matter what happens. If he thought the sky was green he would never stop posting about it no matter what.

And I would have banned his ass solely on his Commune activity, but that's because I have zero tolerance for willful ignorance, and I would have put that in the T&C, but that's clearly not how successful forums are run

If rilla is to blame for mishandling this, then the Commune is to blame for the silly assumption that he was banned based on Commune activity

Reinstate aboorilla as admin. Seriously, ihop gets banned A+, internet drama A+, rilla looks like the bad guy even though he isn't D-

10-02-2009, 02:47 AM

#50 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2006

Posts: 1,095

Quote:

Originally Posted by wufwugy

+1

Iopq almost ruined FTRs Short-handed No Limit Forum.

Thank you FTR. The world is now a better place.

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