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Radashack

01-03-2005, 03:33 PM Post subject: The Dilema

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 522

Maybe someone can give me some ideas to keep from loseing my mind.

So here is my life currently in a nutshell. I work a 30k/year job, 8 hours a day 5 days a week. My job isn't challenging in the least, it was something to pay the bills.

Here is my last two weeks in poker:
two 1000 person + Tourney Wins
Two more Final tables
killing of local and online cash games for another 2kish

I'm loseing my mind working for pennies/hr, someone help me

Poker Blog: http://radashack.blogspot.com/

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Sed

01-03-2005, 04:26 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: Wastin' away again in margaritaville....

Posts: 1,102

If I were thinking about making the jump to pro, I would start a 3 month experiment while keeping my job. I would start with my current BR and see if I could cash out the equivalent amount of my old years income into a savings account. If you can do that within the time allotted, make the jump but keep the extra money in reserve for a downturn....

just an idea....

- sed

whileone

01-03-2005, 05:01 PM

#3 (permalink)

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Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 306

Think about doing this, take each of your paychecks for the next 3 months and buy certificates of deposit. http://beginnersinvest.about.com/cs/...ertdeposit.htm
you give the bank your money for 3 months. they'll give you a tiny bit of interest. you can't touch the money for three months. Then, at the end of three months you can reinvest, or take the money out.

That way, no matter what happens, you will have a months pay availible at the beginning of every month.

If you can get that system in place faster, quit work sooner. Also, pay off any debt. you want your financial status to be rock solid, especialy since you're going to start listing your profession as *poker player*.

If anybody can, you can Radashack. Be very very smart. pay off your car, and credit cards. Wages are guaranteed income, and it's hard to find another salary job when you're desprate. Do not put yourself in a bad situation.

Good Luck, and go for it!

a500lbgorilla

01-03-2005, 05:04 PM

#4 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: This room is a good place to be

Posts: 8,379

You need to build up a big enough bankroll to tie down livings expenses for a while.

I've really run out of reasons to tell you not to go pro. You survived a month of bad, bad cards and understand how low it can get. If you're confident in your abilities, you need to start saving up.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

|~|ypermegachi

01-03-2005, 05:41 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: emo-kid

Posts: 3,580

before you start thinking "i made so much more playing poker why not do it full time" you need to consider the extra stress you will take by depending solely on poker. a bad run of cards can put you on tilt when the bills are coming, preventing you from playing your best. or even worse...card burn out.

your best bet is probably find a part time job, just enough to pay the basic nesecities of living. and then your poker winnings can be the really big cherry at the top.

DavSimon

01-03-2005, 06:28 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Mount Holly, NC

Posts: 813

DavSimon is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:

you can't touch the money for three months

I really like whilone's idea...if you can't get at the money there will be no temptation to take a little out because "I got a rough start" or "the transition will take longer" This way will be a safe but realistic simulation of what it will be like to be financially reliant on poker.

TylerK

01-03-2005, 08:49 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME

Posts: 1,791

Yeah, my advice would be to have enough money (NOT in your BR) to live off of for maybe 6 months or so. I'd think that would be enough to keep the pressure off.

TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol

Yeldud

01-04-2005, 12:21 AM

#8 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 149

Do not overlook the mental aspect of this decision. It is one thing to use poker as a second source of income knowing you have a full time job to pay your bills. However, it is another thing to be totally dependent on your poker winnings, worrying about paying the mortgage/rent, car payment(s), insurance etc. Also, financing arrangements can get difficult at this point. There are not a whole lot of lenders out there that are ready and willing to give money to people that list their occupation as "Professional Gambler".

Another aspect not to overlook is taxes. You are now responsible for documenting your wins/losses and trust me; the IRS will be comparing your lifestyle to what you are claiming as income, to see if the two are copasetic.

One suggestion I would make is save enough money (outside of your BR) to cover all living expenses for at least 6 months. Your post did not indicate what type of work you do and if employment is readily available, but assuming that it is, give full time poker a shot for 3-4 months. If it does not work out at that time, you now have two months of expenses saved to find another full time job and use poker as a second source of income.

Best of luck in your decision and I commend you on even thinking about doing this.

If you put all your faith in the river, you are up shit's creek

Radashack

01-04-2005, 12:54 AM

#9 (permalink)

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Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 522

Thanks for all the great suggestions all. As for the mental aspect of it, poker has been paying my bills mostly, it saved my but when a car broke down and is paying most of my bills, as for the sole thing, i'm sure there will be adjustments, but I've had my runs with the mental strife of poker, and feel prepared there.

I plan to really grind it hard this month and build my BR to a point where i can saftley say that I have enough money in the bank for atleast 3 months (i'm actually at 2 currently). Enough of a BR to really start playing full time (20k bare minimum).

Poker Blog: http://radashack.blogspot.com/

DaNutsInYoEye

01-04-2005, 12:55 AM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: St. Louis

Posts: 1,921

Quote:

Here is my last two weeks in poker:

Awesome... now let me give you your next two weeks:
-13 consecutive MTT's out of the money
-the usual cash cows in your live games quit giving you action because you have already taken them for so much
-losing set to over set, 2 pair to trips, and all the other typical hands that are common in the inevitable downswings of online play
-your car decides to die and that saucy little tart with the huge fun bags from down at the club tells you that you knocked her up

No one is doubting your ability rad. We just don't want you whoring yourself out to make deliveries for knish if go bust.

TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?

Radashack

01-04-2005, 01:02 AM

#11 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 522

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye

Quote:

Here is my last two weeks in poker:

intrigueing:

13? Try 50, been there done that.

cash game? meh, i'll head up the hill to the 5$ limit casino's with the loosest limit tables in the world if I need the cash.

nightly occurance, even when I win.

Car's are in great shape now, and I have a fiance so no big fun bags

Next?

Poker Blog: http://radashack.blogspot.com/

a500lbgorilla

01-04-2005, 01:07 AM

#12 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: This room is a good place to be

Posts: 8,379

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radashack

Next?

Cancer?

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

Sed

01-04-2005, 01:08 AM

#13 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: Wastin' away again in margaritaville....

Posts: 1,102

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radashack

I have a fiance so no big fun bags

Invest a little of your winnings in a trip to the doctor and you can have that fixed....

- sed

No fear, go deep or go home!

Fnord

01-04-2005, 01:13 AM

#14 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radashack

cash game? meh, i'll head up the hill to the 5$ limit casino's with the loosest limit tables in the world if I need the cash.

The 4/8 game here is a cakewalk...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

RD Olivaw

01-04-2005, 06:32 AM

#15 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Dallas,TX

Posts: 228

I agree with all the advice so far. I'd just add that you don't really need to rush this.. You're doing just fine now with full time job and all. Just keep on killing the tournys and cash games at your natural pace until you have the proper expenses saved up and all your other stuff is in order.. Don't forget to add insurance and all the other little perks of a full time job in your expenses.

Also, it's an easy one to overlook - but how does your fiance feel about it?

<Ripptyde> I either steal.....have the nuts...or fold

focus on poker

01-15-2005, 09:57 PM

#16 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 5

do not rush this. i would wait and get a large amount of money to fall back on, simply because you can always come across a streak of bad luck. just my advice

Penneywize

01-16-2005, 12:13 AM

#17 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 885

Penneywize will become famous soon enough

Hey, I think I found an article that might help influence your decision.. It's from another poker website so I'm not going to link it, Ill just paste it in here.

The Long, Long Run
The long run is hard to define, but, as far as I am concerned, 10 years could be considered a starting point. Simulations can be run, however, no matter what numbers the simulation comes up with, and all things being unequal, the long run will be longer for some people. Playing the lottery is a very bad example of this distribution. Someone has to win; it just never seems to be you. (And what about those folks who win twice?) Tournament poker is the same. Some players run well for years in tournaments and in live action. For others the long run may be farther away. I’ve been around a long time, and I’ve seen many come and go.

The world of poker gives many explanations of why people don't win, while stating that the main reason they do win is luck, especially in tournaments. Players on a bad streak are said to be suffering burn out or playing too much, or one of a dozen other things. The simple truth is that as the Expected Value (EV) catches up, the cards don’t come anymore. Poker tournaments are the arena in which this seems to happen the most quickly. The reason is parity in a field where so many are so closely matched. Not nearly the same as in cash poker.

When a tournament player has been successful over a period of time and suddenly goes under, it is reported that he is retiring or quitting for other reasons. This is bad form and generates bad publicity that ultimately embarrasses the player. The fact is that a time comes when the EV catches up with these players and luck just plain runs out. Many people suffer from delusions of grandeur without challenging the truest barometer in the game, the test of time. This happens to cash players (however they don't need publicity and they don't need to make excuses.) Because of overspending, unrealistic belief in their ability, and downright denial the money runs out, too. Making excuses is a useless endeavor.

If a person is a professional cash player, just moving down ‘in class’ will make the games easier to beat. Regard the rankings as you would the horses on a racing form. You have your handicap horses, your allowance horses, your claiming horses and the cheap claimers. Dropping down a notch or two will certainly help solve a cash player’s winning problems. Dropping into smaller buy-in tournaments will have little if any effect for tournament players.

Many players get used to a lifestyle and live far above realistic means, never stopping to consider they are receiving more than their share of good cards. This is the main reason players turn to cheating. Successful cheating offsets the financial damage that prolonged streaks of bad luck can inflict. (Think of a chart with large deviation points spiking up and down.) So a cheat ends up with a skewed perception of the real game of poker. If you have not lived through one of these streaks you really don't know what playing for a living is all about. I play for a living and, unfortunately, I do know what this is about.

Poker’s media consultants make ridiculous statements about the game and the gullible accept the totally unrealistic drivel dished out to them. They just want to believe in the game of poker. But, the one truth they don't want to believe is the amount of organized cheating that is forever present in the game. Believing this would tarnish their image of management and of many individual players.

So bottom line here is that for many, cheating stems from necessity - remember, gamblers don’t think like normal people. Cheating is necessary if they want to continue playing cards for a living and in maintaining a certain lifestyle and façade. Management profits by, participates in and exploits cheating.

The amount of luck in poker is incredible. The best way to lower the luck factor is by playing short-handed poker, any game. Short-handed Pot Limit poker with small blinds and large stacks is as good a way as any to separate a weaker player from his money. Small blinds allow you to make a large bet on the river without the possibility of being drawn out. It takes tremendous skill to play this game as it demands you use all the weapons in your playing arsenal. The number one goal when playing poker, Limit, Pot Limit or No Limit is to get your money called when you want it called, not an easy feat.

And, as I’ve said before, playing split games gives you better balance and lets you maintain a greater edge. You need them both if you’re going to make it in and through the long run.

Players may run well for years and not even comprehend the reality of it. In the late 70s when cheating was at its peak everywhere all games of any value were cheated. The green light was on in Gardena and Vegas, and anything was allowed. Practically everyone, including regulars who were not involved with cheating, lost substantial amounts. The cheats couldn't rake the money in fast enough, yet some people managed to escape. A few players survived and actually made money. In California’s player dealt games if you had to draw a card (Low-ball and High-ball draw were the games) you couldn't win the pot (at least) 37 1/2% of the time because the card mechanics were at work. Hold-out guys were at work on other hands. Yet some still managed to win. With all this cheating going on do you think good play was the reason for their success? No, it was luck. Good old Lady Luck. Some people were dealt pat wheels (along with pat 6s) everyday, time and again. Just plain LUCK. The very smart ones realized how lucky they were and acted accordingly, investing and buying property. There weren’t very many that smart though.

Bottom line - the amount of luck involved is incredible and lack of it is a great motivator for those who want to maintain the lifestyle. The Long Run is too long for me to imagine in many games. This is the reason most high level professionals cheat. They have faced a long run and don't feel like going through another.

Moby Dick

01-16-2005, 02:49 AM

#18 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 3

Since being made redundant last year I`ve played full time, using the redundancy payout as a bankroll. These are just a couple of things I think you need to take into account.

Boredom - playing thousands of hands per month can get monotonous, especially bad on a prolonged run of cold cards and bad beats.

Obviously there`s no sick pay/holiday pay so you have to make enough to cover these times because you will definitely need a break.

There`s obviously more but I`m no "expert".

midas06

09-04-2006, 12:56 PM

#19 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: NZ

Posts: 2,196

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radashack

I plan to really grind it hard this month and build my BR to a point where i can saftley say that I have enough money in the bank for atleast 3 months (i'm actually at 2 currently). Enough of a BR to really start playing full time (20k bare minimum).

updates?

midas06

09-04-2006, 01:15 PM

#20 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: NZ

Posts: 2,196

pantherhound

09-04-2006, 07:38 PM

#21 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Love me for a season

Posts: 492

yeah what happened to this guy he was a fixture here 18 months ago

edit: lol just found this quote from him

"Ripptyde is a fledging Michelangelo, and just making sure he is creating the right hues before he paints his Sistine chapel. He is constantly refining his game, and is becoming more and more consistent (which is apparent). He will create a masterpiece"

mcatdog

09-04-2006, 10:07 PM

#22 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2005

Location: St. Louis

Posts: 3,654

Quote:

Originally Posted by pantherhound

i guess it takes a fledgling Michelangelo to know one

iwa

09-05-2006, 12:25 AM

#23 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 189

Quote:

Originally Posted by midas06

so funny
so true
LOL midas

Xianti

09-05-2006, 12:49 AM

#24 (permalink)

Administrator
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