Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

I'm thinking of buying a car in the 20-30k range at a dealership. My initial thoughts are jaguar

Originally Posted by mixchange

always walk always at least once

Originally Posted by andy-akb

wait, so your car finally died?

Originally Posted by boost

You should probably prefer to finance too if you have decent credit. Tying up 30k in a depreciating asset is not smart. You should be able to out earn the interest you pay.

Originally Posted by boost

You should probably prefer to finance too if you have decent credit. Tying up 30k in a depreciating asset is not smart.

Originally Posted by kb coolman

This is completely wrong. Financing is for people who don't have the money to afford the full price of the asset at the time, period. It should be used sparingly, for homes only, IMO. And you're money isn't 'tied up' when you make a purchase. You're money is clear, and so is the asset. You're money is only 'tied up' when is it obligated towards future payments, i.e., a loan.

And there's nothing wrong with driving a $1000 beater, and I don't car what your financial status is. Some of the wealthiest people I know, who are also some of the wisest money managers I've ever met, buy only used cars to avoid the initial depreciation.

Originally Posted by Alexos

Your money is "tied up" when u make a cash purchase. If you take financing at 2% and use that money to invest at 8% instead, how are you losing money?

Yeah there are advantages to not having a loan, but having your money tied up isn't one of them.

Originally Posted by mrhappy333

car salesmen = snakes IMO

Originally Posted by boost

true, my sister is one.

Originally Posted by boost

If you do decide to go with cash, DO NOT under any circumstances reveal that you are buying with cash until you have settled on a price you are happy with. And I mean completely settled. Dont let them give you a price, find out youre paying cash, then try and tack on docking fees and transport fees. You get the number you are happy with, out the door, then tell them you will be paying cash instead of financing. You may have to lead them on and let them believe you are financing to get the best deal. This works because they will be willing to possibly sell at invoice because they are raping you on financing.

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Squeaky Midge,

I was planning to go over to falls church to start looking. What place near DC do you recommend going? I will def be in contact with you when I decide on something.

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

invest a few k in the nicest suit you can find. Walk into the dealership with bitches on each arm and a few in reserve if possible (im assuming this will be no problem). The first person to walk up to you is gonna be king of the hill 'round the dealership. Take out about a grand in 20s and slap him right in the face with them. Find the doe-eyed trainee in the back corner and send one of your ladies to fetch him. Tell him that you're buying a car for your jewish friend and personal confidant who would just die if you paid more than $15,000. When hits you with 25k or whatever price, tell him you'd be willing to tip 5k plus whatever you just rained all over that douche bag that tried to get in your way. If he's not willing to budge on his price, fold up a c-note in the palm of your hand and slap him across the face. Try to leave a mark. On your way out, tell your ladies they can keep any loose cash you left laying around in the dealership. Fire up an expensive cigar and laugh as those bitches tackle salesman and make them wonder how their lives managed to come to this.

You won't save money, but sometimes you just need to realize that years from now when poker is as dried up as bigred's mom, all you'll have are the stories. It's worth the investment.

Originally Posted by Alexos

Lexus ISF... I mean, you have no other choice rly, sorry.

Originally Posted by Lukie

As far as literally paying in cash, that's just stupid. It's inferior in every way to just writing a check, and you won't look like a baller either. You'll look like an idiot.

Originally Posted by Squeaky_Midget1

I love reading your posts man, but this is pretty far from the truth. Your method of payment has no effect on the price of the car. They can't legally just add random shit onto your bill. Sales and Finance are 2 completely different departments. The F&I manager will be pissed your paying cash and stress warranties and undercoat snake oil to make money, but the sales department will be happy just to send one over the curb. Dealerships aren't as shady as most think.

Originally Posted by DrivingDog

And yeah, dealers do prefer you to finance the car through them because it's another way they can add to their profits by charging you a high rate. If you need finance go to your bank.

Originally Posted by kb coolman

The math is logical, right? Spend 2% here for 8% there, right? The problem is that it doesn't take into account risk. Investments are risk. Just take a look at the current stock market if you need further proof.

And FWIW, I've made this argument over and over in the past, and came to understand that it was flawed. What I learned is that personal finance is much more driven by behavior than math. If all your purchase decisions were truely driven by math, you would never finance anything. Paying cash is always the cheapest way to aquire anything, be it goods or services.

There is a reason why car companies prefer to finance. It makes them more money. It benefits them, not you, but for some reason the general public makes purchases based on monthly payments, not on total cost of ownership. The fact that most people make purchases of any magnitude with credit just shows how well financing companies market thier services. The argument could easily be made that the larger the purchase, the more ignorant it is to finance, as it costs you more in interest.

Read books such as 'Millionaire Mind" or "Millionaire Next Door", and you'll find out that the truely wealthy among us do not make such poor financial decisions.

Originally Posted by Squeaky_Midget1

I love reading your posts man, but this is pretty far from the truth. Your method of payment has no effect on the price of the car. They can't legally just add random shit onto your bill. Sales and Finance are 2 completely different departments. The F&I manager will be pissed your paying cash and stress warranties and undercoat snake oil to make money, but the sales department will be happy just to send one over the curb. Dealerships aren't as shady as most think.

Originally Posted by Alexos

You're making the assumption that your "untied money" is useless.

Originally Posted by Alexos

Yes some investments are risky, but it looks to me that even if im saying u can get 3% guaranteed investment (no risk) and the loan costs 2%, you'll still find an argument against buying it on credit!

Originally Posted by kb coolman

wat? 'Untied' money has the most value.

All investments carry risk. Some more than others, but all have some measure of risk. But that's beside the point. Borrowing at 2% to invest a 3% is retarded, as is borrowing at 0% from a credit card to invest at 10%. The number of people who can do this profitably is ridiculously low, almost non-existant. Most people don't realize that finance companies WANT you to default on some portion of the contract. Late fees, over the limit, rate resets, etc, will quickly overwhelm any perceived finacial advantage.

The real problem with buying on credit is that is makes assumptions on future earnings that are not guaranteed, and that's the risk most people are not willing to consider. I live by the mantra that if you have to borrow the money, you can't afford it. The only exceptions I make to this are for housing (historically, every 10 year period in the US housing market has been profitable), and for education, where the financial benefit of having a degree has been proven over and over again.

Originally Posted by meeloche

I tried to type out some sort of rebuttal but just kept ending up repeating what alexos has written. Basically by borrowing when you have the money paying 2% and making 3% on your investment you're pushing a small edge. (Something that becomes necessary as you move up stakes in poker) You're calling all investments risky which is somewhat correct however there are tons of investments where the risk is so far fetched that is essentially non existent.

Originally Posted by meeloche

This is a really nitty way to approach this.

I tried to type out some sort of rebuttal but just kept ending up repeating what alexos has written. Basically by borrowing when you have the money paying 2% and making 3% on your investment you're pushing a small edge.