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becoming pro and getting started

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alecman

10-19-2007, 04:07 AM Post subject: becoming pro and getting started

#1 (permalink)

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i really am interested in the game. i love to play but would love to make it a bigger part. i have honestly considered going pro and would love to kno how to get started. i am not sure how to get known and jus really start my bankroll. any one who can help me out would be appreciated.

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WildBobAA

10-19-2007, 04:12 AM

#2 (permalink)

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step 1 quit job
step 2 dominate unlimited hold them
step 3 profit

Chopper

10-19-2007, 04:31 AM

#3 (permalink)

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you need experience first and foremost.

start low and build.

read here. discuss here.

keep playing, you'll start to figure it out.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

will641

10-19-2007, 04:38 AM

#4 (permalink)

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step 1: stage a coup
step 2: destroy H.R. 4954
step 3: GET THAT MONEY!

Cash Rules Everything Around Me.

BankItDrew

10-19-2007, 04:53 AM

#5 (permalink)

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BankItDrew will become famous soon enough

1. start at bottom
2. become student of game
3. work your way up
4. quit job
5. pwn

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mcatdog

10-19-2007, 04:58 AM

#6 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by WildBobAA

step 1 build a time machine and go back to 2003
step 2 quit job
step 3 dominate unlimited hold them
step 4 profit

fyp

sauce123

10-19-2007, 05:11 AM

#7 (permalink)

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you want an hourly rate of at least 100 before u go pro id imagine

I got more flava than fruitstripe gum

euphoricism

10-19-2007, 06:50 AM

#8 (permalink)

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God why does everyone fucking repeat that bullshit line. Christ that 100/hour minimum to go pro is fucking retarded. Hell if you're doing a 40 hour week thats over 200 grand a year. Hardly the minimums for survival there.

Whether you can "go pro" or not depends on a whole more things that just how much you make per hour. Like do you have dependents? Savings? Elderly parents who might need caring for? Will it be impossible to reenter your field if you leave for a year or two? What does the market look like for online poker in the coming year? Five years? 10 years? And foremost, what does going pro mean to you? 10 hour weeks and luxury cruises to the bahamas? Or does it mean 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year?

The answers to all of these questions and a whole lot more questions I can't even think of right now are way important than some dollar amount, line in the sand, that says you are pro when you cross it.

I'm 22, no dependents, cheap rent, no bills. "Going pro" for me means something entirely different to someone with a wife and kid and a mortgage payment.

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givememyleg

10-19-2007, 06:53 AM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

1. write a bot program
2. let it run at stars 100nl
3. profit

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Miffed22001

10-19-2007, 07:03 AM

#10 (permalink)

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1. get a superuser account
2. $$$$$$$$$

Renton

10-19-2007, 07:21 AM

#11 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

God why does everyone fucking repeat that bullshit line. <blah blah extremely naive response>.

Jonny_MEMPHIS

10-19-2007, 07:49 AM Post subject: Bankroll?

#12 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2007

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What's a good strategy for a bankroll? Or does anyone know of a link to another part of the forum discussing this?

Jack Sawyer

10-19-2007, 11:41 AM

#13 (permalink)

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Jack Sawyer will become famous soon enough

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

1. get a superuser account
2. $$$$$$$$$

My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...

Quote:

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biondino

10-19-2007, 01:13 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Euph on the money. Renton, what's the beef?

Geanosssss

10-19-2007, 01:23 PM

#15 (permalink)

Flush

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bare beef

ChrisTheFish

10-19-2007, 01:32 PM

#16 (permalink)

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Yeah it depends. I play for a living, but that's because i'm a student.
Grind 5k+ hands of 50NL a week, pay for beer, travel and food etc. 19 and never had a job. <3 poker.

bigred

10-19-2007, 01:52 PM

#17 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

God why does everyone fucking repeat that bullshit line. <blah blah extremely naive response>.

I was going to say hey sunshine, thanks for the positivity, but this suffices

LOL OPERATIONS

Jibalob

10-19-2007, 02:00 PM

#18 (permalink)

Flush

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I would go pro ASAP if I was 100% certain online poker will be around (and popular) forever but unfortunately this is not the case.

PLEASE READ ULTIMATE BET THREAD IN "ONLINE POKER ROOMS" FORUM
Wait, this is .05/.10 and you got sexied, I can't believe that shit, limit must really be dying.[/quote]

Halv

10-19-2007, 02:57 PM

#19 (permalink)

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Make sure you have enough money to cover living expenses for 6 months without having to cash out of your bankroll. Start at 10NL or 25NL (or equivalent for minbetpoker) and build a big enough bankroll to play a high enough limit that you will make enough money to make going pro worth it.

"Worth it" means something different for everyone. I'll use myself as an example: I have an education that can probably get me a job paying around 54k a year (note that salaries as well as living expenses are higher here in Norway). With a job I can get a mortgage that will be worth, say, 5k a year compared to renting (note that I pulled this number straight out of my *). I'll also get retirement benifits, to pull another number out of my ass let's say that's worth 1k a year. This means that I have to make around $60k a year just to "break even" monetarily. There are a number of additional up- and downsides to have a job that needs considering; financial security, career advancement, regular schedule, set vacation time, feeling of accomplishment/contributing to society, friends at work, asshole bosses, etc etc. I also happen to enjoy the work I'll do if I get a job (programming). All in all I think I want to make around 100k a year to make it worthwhile all things considered. Once I was at that point I decided that I'd try out going pro. (also note that I don't know 100% that I'm at that point, could be variance, but since I have living expenses and opportunity I'm going with it).

If, however, your current job is flipping burgers and you hate it, then your minimum goal would be lower. Just make sure you have money tucked away if things don't work out and that you actually have the skill and dedication to go pro. You might also want to consider getting an education while playing and studying poker on the side.

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Halv

10-19-2007, 03:03 PM

#20 (permalink)

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Wow that post ended up being a bit long and more like a blog entry than an advice post.

BankItDrew nailed it, really. Maybe switch points 4 and 5.

Is there anyone on FTR who went pro and has since then decided to get a real job? I'd love to hear that side of the story.

Also, paging Fnord for comments on how poker is a great hobby and maybe not a great job.

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Jack Sawyer

10-19-2007, 03:52 PM

#21 (permalink)

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Very true, HalvSame.

I, for contrast, have very low living expenses. If I could steadily make $100/day, I'd be living like a king.

It varies per individual obv.

My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...

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Hey, I'm in a movie!
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WildBobAA

10-19-2007, 04:11 PM

#22 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

1. be involved with BBJ twice
2. $$$$$$$$$

Deanglow

10-19-2007, 04:33 PM

#23 (permalink)

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Play as a hobby for at least a year to increase skill/build bankroll/decide if its right for you. Read Jesus's post about why you shouldn't go pro. Finally, talk to Fnord.

bigred

10-19-2007, 06:03 PM

#24 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Deanglow

l RPead Jesus's post about why you shouldn't go pro. .

THEN YOU'LL BE A SINNER

LOL OPERATIONS

euphoricism

10-19-2007, 06:08 PM

#25 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by HalvSame

Is there anyone on FTR who went pro and has since then decided to get a real job? I'd love to hear that side of the story.

Also, paging Fnord for comments on how poker is a great hobby and maybe not a great job.

Uh, yeah, Fnord did ;p

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
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chardrian

10-19-2007, 07:58 PM

#26 (permalink)

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Eupho - I agree with you about the need to make $100/hr thing that is floated around pretty frequently.

My wife and I have agreed that I need to be withdrawing a minimum of just $3k a month for this career to be sustaining. That's less than I could/would earn for my actual profession, but the plusses involved in being able to determine my own schedule is huge for our relationship (since she works wayyyy too much, I can make sure that I am not playing during those rare times that she has time off - this wouldn't happen if I had a "real job" and we would basically never see each other for the next four years).

If I did fail the bar exam (like I think I did) I am also going to make sure that I pass it in Feb. so that I always have something to fall back on if this doesn't work out.

http://chardrian.blogspot.com
come check out my training videos at pokerpwnage.com

jyms

10-19-2007, 08:35 PM

#27 (permalink)

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I play full time, I have a wife and kid, I don't make $100 an hour, not even close. There are way more short term and long term reasons why you need to make certain $/hr, but to define $100 as the number is just generalizing and not helpful at all. This conversation has been had many times, and it's usually when someone with no idea or playing experience asks that we have these conversations. Let's go with it depends and agree that you do need to have money behind for the swings, but that again is arbitrary to the point of a persons need for comfort/risk ratio's. I myself at this moment in time have only 2 months left in reserve, because October has been very cruel. But I'm not ready to go back to work yet.

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Renton

10-19-2007, 08:55 PM

#28 (permalink)

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urrgh. Don't you guys get that 30+ buyin downswings happen at cash? Hundreds of buyin downswings happen at tourneys?

These are the reason that 100/hour rule is tossed around. I don't care how good you are at poker, or how big your bankroll is, the risk of ruin in this game is VERY real. Ergo you can't consider a poker income to be the same parameters as a non-poker one.

Case A: You work for an engineering firm, making 20 dollars an hour, you work a standard 40 hour a week, have benefits, sick days etc, and therefore drag ~40k a year. Pretty easy to live off of this.

Case B: Well, since you can live off of 40k pretty easily, then thats all we should shoot for. 20/hour can be done at 50nl quite easily. Let's do that. OH WAITAMINIT, its a lot harder to do this 40 hour a week thing because every time i play longer than 2 hours i go on autotilt and start playing like a bag of asses.

Oh well, I can make 50 an hour at 100nl, lets do that instead. OH FUCK, 20 buyin downswing, weak. Guess i gotta move down to where I only make 20/hour for a while, bummer.

etc.

chardrian

10-19-2007, 09:22 PM

#29 (permalink)

I rarely,if ever, get pms

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 4,524

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

Case B: Well, since you can live off of 40k pretty easily, then thats all we should shoot for. 20/hour can be done at 50nl quite easily. Let's do that. OH WAITAMINIT, its a lot harder to do this 40 hour a week thing because every time i play longer than 2 hours i go on autotilt and start playing like a bag of asses.

Oh well, I can make 50 an hour at 100nl, lets do that instead. OH FUCK, 20 buyin downswing, weak. Guess i gotta move down to where I only make 20/hour for a while, bummer.

etc.

But Renton, what you're not getting is that everyone advocating that you don't need to make $100/hr has played a long time and has a decent grasp on what his/her hourly rate really is AND they have enough in reserves to get through the downswings that we all know are inevitable.

If you're truly making $100/hr at this game in almost everyone's case the real advice would be that you SHOULD go pro (not that you CAN go pro) because you're probaby going to make more playing than you would at a "real" job. For those that don't make $100/hr it doesn't necessarily mean that they CAN'T make a living at this game.

Your case B isn't taking this idea to heart at all - it's the idea of someone who has had a good week and decides to go for it and then realizes it really isn't that easy.

http://chardrian.blogspot.com
come check out my training videos at pokerpwnage.com

jyms

10-19-2007, 09:26 PM

#30 (permalink)

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If I make $50 an hour or $200 an hour it makes no difference in the variance involved. Over 2080 hours (1 year at 40 hrs a week) running good, bad or even makes me that hourly rate. Daniel Neagranu used to say when he played he figured out his hourly rate at something like $88 and hour. When he went to the casino, it made no difference if he won, lost or broke even, he made $88/hr. When he made $5K in one sitting, he made $88/hr. Are you saying he needs to make $100/hr when winning to make up for the -$50/hr he is losing on variance? If that's the case, then he's not making $100/hr. The hourly rate is based on earnings divided by the length of playing time.

So taking everything you say about $100/hr anyone playing poker full time must have earned $100 x 2040 hrs = $204000 a year in poker profits playing 40 hrs a week. Even I don't need that much to replace a $60K a year job.

YouTube - Classified - "Oh... Canada" [Official Video]

Halv

10-19-2007, 09:30 PM

#31 (permalink)

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You guys have sick work ethic. I'm struggling with getting in 25 hours a week.

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I Like Pie

10-19-2007, 10:02 PM

#32 (permalink)

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How would you guys figured out your true hourly rate or winrate?

I'd say you need AT LEAST 100,000 hands which is 200 hours (@ 500 hand/hr). But I even think that's kinda low, I don't even think I've played enough to know my true winrate. Anyone think they've figured out their winrate?

euphoricism

10-19-2007, 10:05 PM

#33 (permalink)

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Just earn 100/hour then.

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
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Miffed22001

10-19-2007, 10:13 PM

#34 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

1. Win the BBJ on party
2. $$$$$$$$$

FMP

euphoricism

10-19-2007, 11:37 PM

#35 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by I Like Pie

You need at LEAST 10x that. Arguably more.

However if you have 6-12 months of solid earnings, you don't really need to know it to the dollar.

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!

Bmxicle

10-20-2007, 01:33 AM

#36 (permalink)

Full House

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don't

|~|ypermegachi

10-20-2007, 02:23 AM

#37 (permalink)

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while there are exceptions to the rule, i agree that you should be making over $100/hr over a large sample before considering going pro.

it's not just OMG if i play 40 hours a week @ $100/hr i'm making $200k a year it's OMG i just played 40 hours of poker this week and i seriously want to kill myself.

the real beauty of knowing you can make $100/hr is that you can put in 20 hours a week, make a good living, and have time to enjoy the money you make rather than burning out every day and sleeping to rest.

IowaSkinsFan

10-20-2007, 05:46 AM

#38 (permalink)

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IowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enough

Try going on a 30 buy in downswing and ask yourself if you want to go pro then.

Check out the new blog!!!

flomo

10-20-2007, 12:02 PM

#39 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: mashing potatoes

Posts: 878

it is far easier to go pro than what the other posters think. you just need a solid plan to be very successful.

1. get a new credit card
2. make a deposit with new card of $2000 into a fishy poker site, like fulltilt
3. whatever is remaining on the card spend ballla style
.....grey goose, cristal, ip3 players, lap dances, and a big ass monitor
(don't worry aobut the card, you will earn it all back and more

)
4. learn poker while 4tabling $100NL against weak opponents
5. move up in stakes and number of tables, don't worry about bankroll management(that shit is for nits)
6. profit
7. you're a pro and a balla

i'm starting this as soon as Capital One sends me my new plastic

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigred

Protect dog

sauce123

10-20-2007, 06:07 PM

#40 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

ok euph enough of ur bullshit. u dont understand a lot about poker

1. variance
2. fatigue

about 1% of pro poker players have the stamina to put in 40 hrs/week multitabling and i can tell u that if u did, ur brain would be so tired that having fun would be impossible.

I got more flava than fruitstripe gum

Miffed22001

10-20-2007, 06:27 PM

#41 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

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dont most ballas find it tough to put in the hours anyway, even though they earn $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ per hour?

Also, ifg you wanna be balla bet you roll on red = instaprofit.

BankItDrew

10-20-2007, 08:13 PM

#42 (permalink)

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I agree with sauce123.

I can't stand it when people say "Aim for $100/hr because of variance." That sentance makes about as much sense as "Your mother is 52 because you have an uncle."

You cannot consider variance a second time after already determining an average!

BankItDrew

10-20-2007, 08:21 PM

#43 (permalink)

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If I had to guess, I think I make about $30-$40/hr.

*CONSIDERING DOWNSWINGS* you fucktards

prolly a standard deviation of $120.

Uh oh,I guess I can't live off of this because there's the possibility of a big downswing... omg i want to punch someone when i hear this

euphoricism

10-21-2007, 09:21 AM

#44 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

My bullshit? What bullshit? Instead of telling me I don't understand poker, why don't you attempt to justify your position? Afterall, it's not just myself that disagrees with you, several other people have voiced their disagreement, and the best you have is the equivalent of "shut up u dont know shit"

As to your variance/fatigue argument...

1) Variance - Other people have covered this already. In particular I think Trainer_Jymz covered it quite well, and I'd like to think you would have read the thread before the reply button, but apparently not. Scroll up and reread it, and then you can post if/why you disagree.

2) Fatigue. Going pro means poker is your job. If you can do a 40 hour week at a "real job" then you *can* do it for poker (even if you'd rather not). I would contend that if you find yourself THAT fatigued after playing only 20 hours of poker a week you are not even close to cut out for a career in poker. It may work for the incredibly small percentage of poker players making buku bucks an hour and shipping around $20,000 pots, but that is not even REMOTELY the majority of the professional poker players.

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!

BankItDrew

10-21-2007, 04:21 PM

#45 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

I agree with euphoricism.

I can't stand it when people say "Aim for $100/hr because of variance." That sentance makes about as much sense as "Your mother is 52 because you have an uncle."

You cannot consider variance a second time after already determining an average!

FMP

sauce, shut up you don't know shit.

Ash256

10-21-2007, 04:42 PM

#46 (permalink)

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I disagree with the $100/hr thing, I'd go with $40/hr or so, but with 6 months living + 40 buyins backed up. Sauce makes a good point about fatigue.. maybe my figures are a bit off though, I live in a very cheap area and can get everything (survival, not beer and cool stuff) covered in a houseshare situation for $700/month.

Oh, and comparing poker to most jobs in terms of the hours you can/should put in is bollocks for most jobs IMO - working in a social setting where you know that you could work harder but don't give a fuck because the workload isn't bad (which is about 80% of jobs I guess) is 10x less tiring than pushing yourself alone because you have no-one to answer to.

Listen to my music

Dislexsik

10-21-2007, 04:52 PM

#47 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: On the grind

Posts: 832

i made 95$/hour this month so far, i guess i cant quit my job.

euphoricism

10-21-2007, 07:16 PM

#48 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash256

Oh, and comparing poker to most jobs in terms of the hours you can/should put in is bollocks for most jobs IMO - working in a social setting where you know that you could work harder but don't give a fuck because the workload isn't bad (which is about 80% of jobs I guess) is 10x less tiring than pushing yourself alone because you have no-one to answer to.

I would contend that if you feel this way you are not cut out for poker as a career either. Everything has a cost/benefit. You take a harder job with no social interaction in exchange for working your own hours from home in your underwear while talking on AIM and surfing the internet. Contrast this with an easier job where you wake up at 7 am, sit in traffic for an hour+, work with some boss bitching at you and snobby coworkers, get 30 minutes for lunch, sit in traffic for an hour+ on the way home, grab some fast food because you're exhausted, and then veg out on the couch all night until you fall asleep just to repeat it the next morning. (I've just described my parents who both have over 100k a year jobs)

To me, that is 10x MORE tiring than 40 hours a week of poker. And I'd gladly make 1/3rd what they make to not have their miserable lives with the ticking of the clock controlling their lives. They make tons of money, but they're not really living life, they're just surviving it.

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
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Miffed22001

10-21-2007, 08:17 PM

#49 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

Ilikeaces threw out the 100/hr shit.

Anyone who disagrees, meh.

Vi-Zer0Skill

10-21-2007, 08:20 PM

#50 (permalink)

Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Nov 2006

Posts: 1,742

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dislexsik

i made 95$/hour this month so far, i guess i cant quit my job.

we need a "ballin" emoticon

NJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carroters

Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools

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