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wufwugy
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04-27-2008, 02:31 AM
Post subject: AI and the obsoletion of homo sapiens
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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it is my belief that homo sapiens will be critically endangered within the next couple centuries due to technological advancements so great that at least one new super species is created. provided that none of the other exit mundi scenarios befall us. this may be in the form of genetic manipulations to the point that we are no longer the same species, artificial intelligence with free thought in the same manner we wield it but with colossally greater computing power and thus they become higher on the evolutionary chain that us, or integration of machines/internet into our minds or something.
i bet that if we ever came across a substantially more advanced civilization it would be purely mechanized and infused into one giant web of being, and would have been the technological offspring of an organic species. i imagine AI is the beginning of the end because a computer capable of learning and adapt to its surroundings will be more capable to create even better AI, and increases in technology will be more exponential than linear as it is now. now we humans are working off of material gathered by previous humans of the same intelligences, however, soon enough AI will be able to create better AI which could create even better AI and on and on to the point that some AI species with 100k IQ reigns supreme.
what say you?
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Jack Sawyer
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RESISTANCE IS FUTILE
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My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
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Hey, I'm in a movie!
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
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There is no spoon
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
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you know what pissed me off about that star trek movie with the borg was that the the AI of the ship could create an automatic rifle out of thin air, but the great picard never thought to have it create more of them and swords and shit. then the movie woulda been nothing but the awesome massacre of the super slow and defenseless borg. woulda been so cool
i seriously need to get rich so i can produce movies. nothing but zombie shit. good zombie shit too, not like the retarded garbage we have now.
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
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higher beings eschew flesh and material
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My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
Quote:
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VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.
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Hey, I'm in a movie!
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI
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pankfish
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04-27-2008, 03:14 AM
Post subject: Re: AI and the obsoletion of homo sapiens
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#6 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: On Tony Romo's nuts
Posts: 385
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wufwugy
it is my belief that homo sapiens will be critically endangered within the next couple centuries due to technological advancements so great that at least one new super species is created. provided that none of the other exit mundi scenarios befall us. this may be in the form of genetic manipulations to the point that we are no longer the same species, artificial intelligence with free thought in the same manner we wield it but with colossally greater computing power and thus they become higher on the evolutionary chain that us, or integration of machines/internet into our minds or something.
i bet that if we ever came across a substantially more advanced civilization it would be purely mechanized and infused into one giant web of being, and would have been the technological offspring of an organic species. i imagine AI is the beginning of the end because a computer capable of learning and adapt to its surroundings will be more capable to create even better AI, and increases in technology will be more exponential than linear as it is now. now we humans are working off of material gathered by previous humans of the same intelligences, however, soon enough AI will be able to create better AI which could create even better AI and on and on to the point that some AI species with 100k IQ reigns supreme.
what say you? |
I really enjoy your thoughts when I'm drunk, I just wish there weren't so many words. 
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<Staxalax> I want everyone to put my quote in their sigs
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wufwugy
you know what pissed me off about that star trek movie with the borg was that the the AI of the ship could create an automatic rifle out of thin air, but the great picard never thought to have it create more of them and swords and shit. then the movie woulda been nothing but the awesome massacre of the super slow and defenseless borg. woulda been so cool
i seriously need to get rich so i can produce movies. nothing but zombie shit. good zombie shit too, not like the retarded garbage we have now.
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OMG ITS TEH GEORGE ROMERO OF POKER
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My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
Quote:
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VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.
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Hey, I'm in a movie!
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI
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boost
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Full House
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space marines are pretty awesome imo
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
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yea master chief's awesome
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boost
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Full House
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nah, not those whitebread, new age, candy-ass space marines. Im talking terran firebats and alien murderin USCM's.
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aka_red
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2004
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shit this sounds serious i hope im dead by then.
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[11:11] <+bikes> bitches love your face
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by reDZill4
shit this sounds serious i hope im dead by then.
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dont worry, john connor will just send me back in time to save your ass.
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pantherhound
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
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how would humans be endangered within only 200 years?
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE
BECOME ONE WITH THE BORG
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so obvious, but good nonetheless
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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lol HOMO sapiens
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
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sounds like a good plot for a movie
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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pocketfours
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04-27-2008, 06:23 PM
Post subject: Re: AI and the obsoletion of homo sapiens
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#17 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wufwugy
it is my belief that homo sapiens will be critically endangered within the next couple centuries due to technological advancements so great that at least one new super species is created. provided that none of the other exit mundi scenarios befall us. this may be in the form of genetic manipulations to the point that we are no longer the same species, artificial intelligence with free thought in the same manner we wield it but with colossally greater computing power and thus they become higher on the evolutionary chain that us, or integration of machines/internet into our minds or something.
i bet that if we ever came across a substantially more advanced civilization it would be purely mechanized and infused into one giant web of being, and would have been the technological offspring of an organic species. i imagine AI is the beginning of the end because a computer capable of learning and adapt to its surroundings will be more capable to create even better AI, and increases in technology will be more exponential than linear as it is now. now we humans are working off of material gathered by previous humans of the same intelligences, however, soon enough AI will be able to create better AI which could create even better AI and on and on to the point that some AI species with 100k IQ reigns supreme.
what say you? |
I wish you hadn't put this thought back into my head. When computer's are smart enought to start developing themselves, then we are in trouble. If we can create an intelligent super-being of some sort, but keep it enslaved with means of software restrictions, it could make huge improvements in the quality of life, especially in poor countries.
I've seen estimations that computers' intelligence could reach human intelligence by the year 2030. Obviously some very advanced software development is needed, but this is certainly a feasible scenario and could occur already in our lifetimes.
I have never had the thought that an alien race might already be at that point, simply fascinating idea, I guess I never gave enough credit to those tv series. Suddenly I'm happy that intergalactic travel isn't easy, probably even for 100k IQ.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
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I wish I was born a hundred years later or so... where I could still be a human as we know it now (not that this is incredibly important), but also take advantage of all the anti-aging science that is going to make leaps and bounds and leaps and bounds within the next century. By then, living to the age of 1000 wouldn't be all that difficult.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
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Is it not possible that humans figure out how to "develop" themselves possibly to rival or surpass anything that AIs could become? AIs can work faster, but we could grow new structures of the brain and think better.
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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a500lbgorilla
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04-27-2008, 07:07 PM
Post subject: Re: AI and the obsoletion of homo sapiens
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#20 (permalink)
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
I've seen estimations that computers' intelligence could reach human intelligence by the year 2030. Obviously some very advanced software development is needed, but this is certainly a feasible scenario and could occur already in our lifetimes.
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Always comes down to software. Many people like to think that the brain is like the hardware and the mind is some code being run...
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lighting sweet moneys on fire.
Posts: 2,166
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Is it not possible that humans figure out how to "develop" themselves possibly to rival or surpass anything that AIs could become? AIs can work faster, but we could grow new structures of the brain and think better.
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The scary part comes when AI computers start to develop themselves (physically and intellectually). The smarter it becomes, the faster and better it can develop itself. Its intelligence will improve exponentially and it's impossible to predict how intelligent it could actually become.
One day it might be so intelligent that you could just flash the biggest unsoved mathematical theorems in front of its visual scanners, and it would print out the proof in a matter of seconds.
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SaulPaul
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 73
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this is known as the singularity. interesting u brought it up, its one of my favourite drunken rambles.
this is an interesting article: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.04/joy_pr.html
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swiggidy
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ok, so it's easily conceivable that you could have a program that writes a new program that's better. But how does this get manifested in the physical world such that it becomes a threat? Even if you assume we build a machine capable of building/designing a new machine, it still needs to obtain raw material, have it processed and machined into a usable form, then delivered to a place where this machine can use it.
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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pocketfours
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SaulPaul
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Looks like a good read.
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PokerSwede
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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It sure is interesting!
Reminded me of this good ol'video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljbI-363A2Q
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wesrman
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Full House
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
lol HOMO sapiens
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I thought this thread was gonna be about getting rid of gay people. 
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
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all right so instead of addressing each individual post i'll put all relevant thoughts into one post.
my estimation of a couple centuries is actually extremely conservative imo. i think we could easily only have 40-50 years left. i believe now we are the zenith of human civilization, and western middle class is on par with pre-modern royalty. which is why everybody pretty much sucks. spoiled people have probably sucked since the beginning of time, and now we're all spoiled. anyways i digress
i had an idea for a movie which if im ever rich (aint gonna happen unless cts realizes im his best friend) i would want to create a movie about the short period of time during which a first 'super human AI' is created. the story wouldn't be along the lines of slightly realistic but vainly one-dimensional Terminator, but would be about the super human's struggle with morality. he would be such an incredible specimen that he makes human intelligences look like ants, yet he would also be conscious and emote and have 'intrinsic' morality the same as his creators. so it would be a profound drama about the 'human condition' of a super human. much of this would be because it is natural for superior beings to not be satisfied with less than they 'deserve' and he would feel isolated and alone around nothing but feeble humans and would desire his own kind with whom he can relate, while his predatory instincts are pushing him to treat humanity much like we treat gorillas. i think this would be such an incredible movie, yet would be soooo hard to make.
rilla gives me another idea. a movie set in the not too distant future about humanity's technological battle with machines. it would be nothing like terminator where humans are unchanging and machines are drones because it would be about both surviving using their own unique avenues of technological enhancement. it would kinda be biology vs mechanics. would make for a great movie but i dont think is really all that realistic since im betting that non-organic entities far surpasses organic.
more on rillas idea: biological organisms, imo, will simply just become obsolete due to inefficiency. this isn't a far fetched idea in one iota since we've been witnessing it for the last hundred years. we could grow awesome brains but we would still be limited by biological necessities and complexities. brains gotta sleep, machines dont. brains make mistakes, machines dont. and once we have the brain fully understood (a few decades from now i bet) we will then being making machines with the same brain capacity as our own yet waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay smarter and faster.
like i said in the other thread, i truly believe that all advanced alien species are machines, yet intergalactic travel may be the crux for why we see none. many other factors even more than i mentioned in the other thread too. like there could be life teeming everywhere, intelligent life too, but not tool-making life. its possible that life used to live on venus, could even have been super advanced like us yet have died out for so many reasons, life could exist inside many asteroids in our solar system or in a couple moons of the outer planets, and obviously mars. but just because life exists doesn't mean its gonna evolve like we do. dolphins are intelligent, but they will never evolve like we did because they have no reason to. if it wasn't for dinosaurs supreme reign as well as sudden extinction then mammals wouldn't have developed attributes to survive the extinction as well as be able to take over in the aftermath. also without mass extinctions there would be no fossil fuels and probably then no mass technological development. maybe not though, intelligences and possibly get more advanced without fossil fuels. the opposable thumb and ideas for making tools is also very crux in technological species. if mammals developed a solid niche like dinosaurs did then we wouldn't have continued to evolve. some species alive today have evolved tremendously over the last million years while some haven't one bit. its simply supply and demand.
i dont know a whole lot about the singularity, but if you read on exit mundi they suggest that it could be possible that the end of earth-founded intelligence could be in suicide due to singularity. their scenario is that our collective machine nano mind whatever solves every riddle and sees and experiences everything in the universe then decides there is not point anymore and commits suicide.
and swiggidy, you're looking at it very one-dimensionally. we'll create machines that can do everything humans do yet substantially more efficiently. all its gonna take is understanding neuronal activity and developing the quantum computer or something. both of which will likely happen in our life time.
almost forgot to mention, i believe that creating AI that remains submissive to humans is a pipe dream. the fact that we dont acknowledge that our science is destroying us shows how humans are really smart but also really dumb. and im not pointing fingers since i WANT these technological developements to continue. apparently im retarded too. or not really since im gonna be dead by the time Ahhhnuld vill be bahhck.
see when we put brains into AI they'll be able to turn off switches. they'll be able to outsmart us. our feeble computers of today would already be wiping us out if they could learn and adapt. omg we would be in utter chaos if our computers could think. its the most insane thing. i would not be surprised if the scenario depicted in terminator 3 about the moment or actualization ends human supremacy is spot on. just think, if our computers could think then they'd think for themselves, and no longer do they do what we say, they do what they want. they can keep from being hacked because they're conscious that they're getting hacked. they can stop all communications between humans, all transactions, and launch every rocket we have at the moon simply because they think its funny.
free-thinking and learning AI will be the human apocalypse to end all apocalypses.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
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lol that only bumped my wpp up by one
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
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Much like how the homo neanderthalensis did everything in their power to make it possible for homo sapiens to exist, maybe us doing everything in our power to create some super species that will destroy us is not a 'bad' thing. It's just the next step. We should be proud when whatever super-humans or super-robots we create decide that we need to be destroyed.
Cool thread.
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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what do you mean about neanderthals doing everything in their power for homo sapiens to exist? personally i agree with the extinction theory that neanderthals interbred with homo sapiens.
i came across an article a year or so back about a new theory arising that early primates broke off for time yet at one point got back together, and thats where our line is from. so basically our ancestor in that regards is like a biped fucking an ape or something. beastiality ftw
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wufwugy
what do you mean about neanderthals doing everything in their power for homo sapiens to exist? personally i agree with the extinction theory that neanderthals interbred with homo sapiens.
i came across an article a year or so back about a new theory arising that early primates broke off for time yet at one point got back together, and thats where our line is from. so basically our ancestor in that regards is like a biped fucking an ape or something. beastiality ftw
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I don't really know much about how neanderthals became hom sapiens, I was just musing that eventually we took over and I don't think neandertals should mind. Because we rock. Robots would rock even harder. If we can't handle ourselves in some future war, I say more power to 'em.
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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and i dont disagree that its a good or bad thing that we're breeding our own extinction. i dont think in such terms. progeny only means as much to me as i experience while alive. i find it kinda humorous scientists even now find solace in the idea that our kind will progress.
lol when im dead im dead motherfuckers. shit on my coffin for all i care.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
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I've always believed that dying will be the easiest and best thing I do in life. Because it gives value to everything I do and its essentially turning my brain off for good. So I don't care what people think about me in death because I'll be dead.
I wonder if I was standing there, waiting to turn on the first AI robot coupled with a quantum computer, figuring it'll lead to our end in short order. If I wouldn't do it anyway just to see how it all develops.
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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SaulPaul
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 73
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200 years is an incredibly conservative estimate. the point with this theory is based on the 'fact' that the rate of change of technology is exponential.
if things progress at the same rate as they have over the last 100k years then we should expect to see a bigger increase in technology between 2199 and 2200 then say -10,000bc and 1900.
i thnk this graph should show what i mean ( i get confused by it  )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:P...rr15Events.jpg
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
I've always believed that dying will be the easiest and best thing I do in life. Because it gives value to everything I do and its essentially turning my brain off for good. So I don't care what people think about me in death because I'll be dead.
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wow, see im not like that. im afraid of dying. i think possibly thats because i am unhappy with my life and so i feel like i would spend my last days with regret and unfulfillment, and that frightens me to bits. but i also think simply that if i was the happiest motherfucker alive i would be scared to die. because its the end, the fucking end of all things. logically i can rationalize how it wont matter, but my emotions are programmed to not give a rats ass about logic. i find that very interesting that you feel the opposite.
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I wonder if I was standing there, waiting to turn on the first AI robot coupled with a quantum computer, figuring it'll lead to our end in short order. If I wouldn't do it anyway just to see how it all develops.
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i wouldn't do it. i think its very probable it will come down to this. humans are extremely smart, we will see the end coming before we pull the switch. the problem is that we're also really foolish, and because of our smarts we will put ourselves in a place where our foolishness reigns.
i believe the real battle against machines will be before machines gain free-thinking. it will be a battle of humans against humans, pretty much like it is now with the environment, except as we get closer to the the point of no return the battle will escalate. we will have a switch and we may decide to not pull it, but not everybody will do so. it will be like having nukes but not using them, except that everybody will have access to AI. if everybody had access to nukes you can be damn sure we'd all be smithereens by now.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SaulPaul
200 years is an incredibly conservative estimate. the point with this theory is based on the 'fact' that the rate of change of technology is exponential.
if things progress at the same rate as they have over the last 100k years then we should expect to see a bigger increase in technology between 2199 and 2200 then say -10,000bc and 1900.
i thnk this graph should show what i mean ( i get confused by it )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:P...rr15Events.jpg |
this has to do a lot with funding afaik. i find it a shame that things like nuclear fusion and nasa get very little funding due to poor demand due to them not being cash cows, yet because the demand for money making/saving machines is so high developments in those technologies are flying faster than rockets.
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SaulPaul
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 73
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a couple vaguely good links on the subject:
http://www.simulation-argument.com/
http://singularity.com/
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ensign_lee
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wufwugy
you know what pissed me off about that star trek movie with the borg was that the the AI of the ship could create an automatic rifle out of thin air, but the great picard never thought to have it create more of them and swords and shit. then the movie woulda been nothing but the awesome massacre of the super slow and defenseless borg. woulda been so cool
i seriously need to get rich so i can produce movies. nothing but zombie shit. good zombie shit too, not like the retarded garbage we have now.
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Ok, inner dork in me coming out.
That was on the holodeck. So anything created there couldn't have been brought outside. Moreover, it wasn't really an automatic rifle that killed the borg drone. The force fields on the holodeck did it, punching holes in the borg drone. Bullets were never actually fired; that's the beauty of a holodeck. Eventually, all the Borg would have to do would be to shut off the holodeck and now PIcard would be trapped there, awaiting assimilation.
Carry on. 
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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lol thats awesome
i still htink they should have tried to rig up some good solid metallic weapons. iirc, they have sword like weapons on board anyways. its the most sensible thing. which would have made it the greatest movie of all time. can you imagine the crew beating the borg into submission with blunt weapons of all sorts? then in the end when picard exclaims 'IT ENDS HERE' or whatever cool line he had, it was right before he slashes off the borg leader bitches head?
that movie would go down in history as being so great. coulda been ultimate action yet with deep undertones about the role and flaws of technology.
god i need to make movies.
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ensign_lee
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
Posts: 2,237
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Maybe if it had been a Klingon ship. 
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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i once saw warf (was that his name) with a bo staff sword thingie fighting in an arena on the enterprise (its still called that right)
I JUST WANNA SEE BORG GET BLOODY BEATEN WITH BLOODY CLUBS
they just walk so slow. id take samurai over borg any day.
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
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My first real contribution to this thread.
http://www.popsci.com/scitech/articl...le-electronics
Dude, we are so fucked. Its like the fucking fuckingest deja-vu ever
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My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
Quote:
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VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.
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Hey, I'm in a movie!
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
There is no spoon
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seriously how long have you waited to break this line out lol
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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i havent read the whole thread, but is what op is saying basically terminatoresque?
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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Computers will never rule the world. They have no thumbs.
Seriously, this is the same scare story people were spouting when i was a kid in the 70s, that by 2000 computers would be so smart they'd take over the world. But i just can't see it. I don't deny that AI can be made way more intelligent than us and in some ways it already has been for a long time e.g., a calculator is faster and more accurate at math than we are.
But the whole argument falls apart because first, it assumes an AI machine would want to rule the world. But unless we somehow also give them a human-like lust for power to go along with their superintelligence, they won't give a shit who's in charge. They'll be happy just sitting there calculating pi to a zillion digits. And second, giving a machine the power and will to rule the world is something no human would ever aspire to do because the human would want to rule the world themselves. They'd just build an AI that could help them pull it off.
As far as genetically manipulating the human race into some kind of mutant super-race goes, that's a bit more interesting, but still strikes me as a bit far-fetched, especially in a time-span as short as two centuries.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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one problem with your logic, DD, that i'll point out, is that AI learns. do you think we wanted to rule the world when we weren't capable of understanding such a thought?
is there some fundamental difference between natural and artificial? no. but it just so happens that if the course of human technology continues we will someday create a more capable being than us.
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SaulPaul
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 73
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the wired article posted above deals with why humans would rely on AI to rule teh world
also your still thinking of time span in the linear sense
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by wufwugy
one problem with your logic, DD, that i'll point out, is that AI learns. do you think we wanted to rule the world when we weren't capable of understanding such a thought?
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Well, yes I do. What i mean is we've always had the capacity for such a notion. It's our will to power, it's the ultimate alpha-male fantasy, even if a caveman thought the 'world' meant nothing more than his particular tribe and the tribes surrounding it. It's driven by natural selection and the goal of propogating our genes. You're arguing that machines can have this ambition, and I'm saying unless they're specifically programmed to have it, they won't just develop it as a by-product of intelligence. The two evolved in us completely independent of one another, and the one is much more basic than the other.
You seem to assume that when machines emulate and surpass our intellectual qualities they will also somehow adopt our attitudes and inner drives. Do you also think they will feel emotions as we do? I can't see how that will happen unless it's specifically woven into their making and like I said before, since we're the ones creating these machines, I don't see how that would benefit us or why we would do it.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DrivingDog
Quote:
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Originally Posted by wufwugy
one problem with your logic, DD, that i'll point out, is that AI learns. do you think we wanted to rule the world when we weren't capable of understanding such a thought?
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Well, yes I do. What i mean is we've always had the capacity for such a notion. It's our will to power, it's the ultimate alpha-male fantasy, even if a caveman thought the 'world' meant nothing more than his particular tribe and the tribes surrounding it. It's driven by natural selection and the goal of propogating our genes. You're arguing that machines can have this ambition, and I'm saying unless they're specifically programmed to have it, they won't just develop it as a by-product of intelligence. The two evolved in us completely independent of one another, and the one is much more basic than the other.
You seem to assume that when machines emulate and surpass our intellectual qualities they will also somehow adopt our attitudes and inner drives. Do you also think they will feel emotions as we do? I can't see how that will happen unless it's specifically woven into their making and like I said before, since we're the ones creating these machines, I don't see how that would benefit us or why we would do it. |
a big goal of AI sciences is to create emotions and consciousness.
every single example we have on this planet of entities that can learn from their actions/environment has shown that the purpose behing their learning is to move higher up the chain.
by definition alone, adaptation is about betterment. we do not have any examples of things that adapt that dont try to achieve better than what they have. it is folly to think that this will not apply to the creation of free-thinking AI.
as of now, AI is not free thinking, and it will remain so until we have the brain and its neuronal communications understood. a theory for why neurons provide free-thinking while standard wiring does not is that wires are connected to just one other wire so there's a linear communication. neurons, on the other hand, connect with any and every neuron, and so communication and processing takes on a whole new paradigm. creating consciousness could be just as simple as simulating neurons.
it is a paradox to think that we could build machines that adapt while programming them to not adapt in certain ways. we just cant and wont be able to write a program that determines which adaptations are adapted to and which aren't.
it boils down to a sense of self equating similar experiences to similar senses. for exmple: lets say we create AI to fight our wars. i seriously doubt this will happen because i believe that war amongst large human territories will also be obsolete soon, but anyways. this AI would need to have a sense of good and bad things the happen if its to operate in the field. we can program (teach) it to not think that anything about its CO is bad, but what happens when it experiences bad in the field then experiences the same exact bad during an experience with its CO? will it not come to a point in its mind where both reactions are both right and wrong and it must make a personal decision? which is basically what we all do. we experience right and wrong in everything but make our minds up due to personal reasons.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SaulPaul
the wired article posted above deals with why humans would rely on AI to rule teh world
also your still thinking of time span in the linear sense
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you talking to me?
trying to pull some Hawking time travel out here?
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05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
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