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bode
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05-01-2008, 05:13 PM
Post subject: 4 month delay for WSOP main event FT
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
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discuss
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/poker...-30-WSOP_N.htm
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
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I'm looking forward to the great PR this will bring us if the chip leader gets murdered in the 4 months before the final table
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Don't care for it. It makes two huge changes that seem to me to violate the spirit of the event:
1. You don't go straight from playing several days of poker to the final table, where you'd have to fight through exhaustion and nerves to still play your best. In other words the test of your mettle (as well as the essential romance) of being at that final table is kind of lost.
2. The coaching aspect. I think if you luckbox your way to the final table you should have to try to luckbox down the home stretch, too. You shouldn't get to go to a coach and offer a small cut of your winnings in exchange for the best information available on the other players.
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wesrman
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Originally Posted by dalecooper
Don't care for it. It makes two huge changes that seem to me to violate the spirit of the event:
1. You don't go straight from playing several days of poker to the final table, where you'd have to fight through exhaustion and nerves to still play your best. In other words the test of your mettle (as well as the essential romance) of being at that final table is kind of lost.
2. The coaching aspect. I think if you luckbox your way to the final table you should have to try to luckbox down the home stretch, too. You shouldn't get to go to a coach and offer a small cut of your winnings in exchange for the best information available on the other players.
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I agree with all of this.
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Originally Posted by wesrman
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dalecooper
Don't care for it. It makes two huge changes that seem to me to violate the spirit of the event:
1. You don't go straight from playing several days of poker to the final table, where you'd have to fight through exhaustion and nerves to still play your best. In other words the test of your mettle (as well as the essential romance) of being at that final table is kind of lost.
2. The coaching aspect. I think if you luckbox your way to the final table you should have to try to luckbox down the home stretch, too. You shouldn't get to go to a coach and offer a small cut of your winnings in exchange for the best information available on the other players.
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I agree with all of this. |
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dwarfman
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Originally Posted by mcatdog
I'm looking forward to the great PR this will bring us if the chip leader gets murdered in the 4 months before the final table |
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Originally Posted by wesrman
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Originally Posted by dalecooper
Don't care for it. It makes two huge changes that seem to me to violate the spirit of the event:
1. You don't go straight from playing several days of poker to the final table, where you'd have to fight through exhaustion and nerves to still play your best. In other words the test of your mettle (as well as the essential romance) of being at that final table is kind of lost.
2. The coaching aspect. I think if you luckbox your way to the final table you should have to try to luckbox down the home stretch, too. You shouldn't get to go to a coach and offer a small cut of your winnings in exchange for the best information available on the other players.
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I too agree with all of this. Its a pretty dumb move. Why in crap's name?
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
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the publicity will (read: should) be great, and in the long run that should benefit us. This will also give players more time to get sponsers and such, which is nice for the select 9 but i could really give 2 shits about. However, this is just greedy on ESPN/Harrah's part and i would bet it will be a one year thing.
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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I can't say I am a fan of it either.
Did anyone catch this at the end?
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Two-time Main Event champion Doyle Brunson would prefer each player to be allowed an alternate, "somebody that's not considered to be a player with abilities above their own."
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That's an even more terrible idea than moving the final table 4 months down the road. You just can't measure someone's abilities objectively.
Also, what if some member of FTR made a final table and then "fell ill"? What would stop them from allowing someone like johnny_fish to sub in for them?
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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gabe
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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just more time to organize all my friends and family sweating me
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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This decision hurts the players at the final table and benefits everyone else. I'm a greedy selfish son of a bitch so I say bravo espn.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
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I think it's good for poker.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
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I think it sucks for poker. Everyone is going to watch it live and be like wtf this is boring
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will641
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: getting my swell on
Posts: 1,610
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this is so stupid. its like, do they play the nba finals or the superbowl just before preseason? i would be pretty pissed about it if i were in the ft. i could see 1 or 2 weeks, but 4 months is absurd.
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Cash Rules Everything Around Me.
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Originally Posted by Deanglow
Everyone is going to watch it live and be like wtf this is boring
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I forgot about this factor. Will it be broadcast live?
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItDrew
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Originally Posted by Deanglow
Everyone is going to watch it live and be like wtf this is boring
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I forgot about this factor. Will it be broadcast live? |
No.
"This year, the champion figures to be decided in the early hours of Nov. 11, with a two-hour taped and edited telecast of the final table set for 9 p.m. that night on ESPN."
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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its marketing. it probably wont be bad for poker.
it also wont be boring to watch in the slightest. it may actually be more enjoyable to watch. its not like they show any of the boring hands.
i cannot say for certain because its speculation, but i really like this idea. whats more enjoyable: watching a bunch of retards play football or a bunch of people who actually know what they're doing? they're treating this like a sport, which is excellent because it'll become more popular to everybody; fans, media, legislators.
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Originally Posted by wufwugy
i cannot say for certain because its speculation, but i really like this idea. whats more enjoyable: watching a bunch of retards play football or a bunch of people who actually know what they're doing? they're treating this like a sport, which is excellent because it'll become more popular to everybody; fans, media, legislators.
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If that's the argument for it, I say they should try out some variation of the idea Negreanu's been pushing for years - a tournament format, maybe invitation-only, possibly multi-game instead of just hold 'em. Basically set up an event where Jamie Gold can't possibly come out ahead of Phil Ivey and that will legitimize it. Otherwise I say just keep it like it is, and may the best man who can endure a solid week of non-stop poker and bad beats win.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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i dunno. that sounds like a good idea to have in addition to everything else, but not the ME. the minds behind sports, media, and gambling advertisment are very good.
if they're gonna do their best to popularize anything its by far the best that its the ME. personally i would go about it a diff way tho.
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
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this is the worst thing that has ever happened
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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givememyleg
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WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
Administrator
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i think this is absolutely completely and utterly retarded
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pocketfours
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Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Originally Posted by givememyleg
i think this is absolutely completely and utterly retarded
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Jack Sawyer
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Old School
Posts: 2,535
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Originally Posted by wufwugy
i dunno. that sounds like a good idea to have in addition to everything else, but not the ME. the minds behind sports, media, and gambling advertisment are very good.
if they're gonna do their best to popularize anything its by far the best that its the ME. personally i would go about it a diff way tho.
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nah. it is not a sport, its gambling.
there is nothing that can happen during a hand to make it interesting for untrained and dumb outside observers, unless a showdown is reached, and you see some sort of ridiculous bluff. and even so, they have to understand wtf is going on for them to appreciate it.
the nfl, on the other hand, you will always see big catches and punishing hits, and this is appealing for untrained and dumb outside observers. the nba, ridic steals, dunks, blocks, etc. the mlb, huge homers and strikeouts. hopefully, my point comes across well.
imagine your mom getting a high about how a given hand was played. this is highly unlikely, is it not? only people who understand what is going on, and has complete info, can appreciate wtf is going on.
with this in mind, ducy poker will never be as big an enterprise (at least not tournament poker) as the nfl's super bowl, the mlb's world series, or the nba's finals?
it would help if the people in charge of the marketing here would be actually competent tourney donks, then they'd see the fundamental error of their ways. not some random he-she who does not even know what suits there are.
Oh, and also, in tourney poker there is a certain rhythm, a certain zone you have to aspire to get to. You read people, and will try to remember those reads. Coming back 4 months later, it will be hard for that zone to be kept, hard to remember whatever reads you had, its a whole new ballgame with unequal stacks... this sucks obv
If they want to make it this way, the only logical way should be to make it a 9 player $2M buyin sng, everybody starting with equal stacks. Of course this would be a dumb idea too.
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Jack Sawyer
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^^
IOW,
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
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Originally Posted by givememyleg
i think this is absolutely completely and utterly retarded
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My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...
Quote:
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VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.
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Hey, I'm in a movie!
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flomo
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Full House
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Originally Posted by gabe
just more time to organize all my friends and family sweating me
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if you can hire Bill Belichick
he might not know poker but you'll have all the info on the other players at the final table 
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Originally Posted by bigred
Protect dog
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
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of course its not gonna be as big as more traditional sports. at least any time soon. something that i think you are all missing is the hype and 'pro' factor.
a huge reason why nba nfl etc are so popular is because espn is always motherfucking talking about them. they're always talking about the players and what they think they're gonna do and blah blahb ahba so much stupid shit that means absolutely nothing, yet fans eat that shit up like its jessica alba taco.
its possible they are doing it this way because they want to profile all the final tablers. make them look like they're experts, opine and rationalize about why poker player number one has an edge on poker player number two balha blahb blaha, and fans will eat that shit up because fans will think that the final tablers are actually experts.
you guys who think this is the worst idea ever have not given any good reason why other than 'it changes it from what it was or should be according to how it was done originally'. that just doesn't cut it.
maybe this thing will be a huge bomb, most likely not cuz shit just doesn't work like that usually, but also maybe it will be a huge success. media and sports advertisers know that you dont get fans without players to look up to. if negreanu and ivey and doyle and that guy who uses his feet got to the FT every year then espn would have so much more to work with when it comes to making fans.
seriously, if they're doing this to make the final tablers look more like cool people and skilled players then this will likely be a huge success. the media has to create so much of the rivalry and nobility in our minds to garner our attention.
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wesrman
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Full House
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Originally Posted by Jack Sawyer
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Originally Posted by pocketfours
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Originally Posted by givememyleg
i think this is absolutely completely and utterly retarded
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deacon_bluez
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 216
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This will be +EV for all of us. More viewer eyeballs = more new fish to the poker sites = $$$.
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Sue me if I play too long....
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HiLo
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 250
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It is a ridiculous idea.
I vote for a 9 way chop after the first hand.
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pankfish
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: On Tony Romo's nuts
Posts: 385
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I don't see why you care one way or the other unless it directly affects you. I would enjoy watching an event that I didn't already know the results for.
Alternates? Wtf is Brunson thinking?
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
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Originally Posted by wufwugy
a huge reason why nba nfl etc are so popular is because espn is always motherfucking talking about them. they're always talking about the players and what they think they're gonna do and blah blahb ahba so much stupid shit that means absolutely nothing, yet fans eat that shit up like its jessica alba taco.
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I think it's the other way around. NBA and NFL are popular, thus ESPN chooses to fill their time with mostly gossip-coverage of those sports. Chicken and the egg, I guess. I love football and not for the gossip coverage but for the product on the field.
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
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Originally Posted by wufwugy
a huge reason why nba nfl etc are so popular is because espn is always motherfucking talking about them. they're always talking about the players and what they think they're gonna do and blah blahb ahba so much stupid shit that means absolutely nothing, yet fans eat that shit up like its jessica alba taco.
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I think it's the other way around. NBA and NFL are popular, thus ESPN chooses to fill their time with mostly gossip-coverage of those sports. Chicken and the egg, I guess. I love football and not for the gossip coverage but for the product on the field. |
standard nature vs nurture where the answer is both.
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mixchange
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,665
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just considering bringing more idiots playing and making us more money, I think it is fantastic. There hasn't been anything new for poker on TV in years, now we get a super-bowl style build up the preceeding weeks where all the players will be interviewed, guys getting coached, changing strategies, etc.
great for keeping and increasing overall popularity
as far as for "purity of the historic tournement" its awful.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Why this is a bad idea:
o Coaching - been discussed
o Collusion - time enough to organize it or at least suspicion of it
o Deals - someone will do something stupid with their equity in the tourney already. I think this is the greatest risk of someone not being able to show.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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i couldn't care less about collusion because i aint gonna be at the FT and if i was i'd have more ev in sponsorships and semi-fame than from cashing huge, but besides that, collusion wont happen as much as pessimists think because its real real hard to get away with and ton is at stake. really the only way to do it is just to dump to one player, and i'll be fucked if i'd trust some douchebag i met four months ago with my stack.
if harrahs and espn does it right, this will be waaaaaaay one of the best things to ever happen to poker.
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BennyLaRue
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 646
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Somebody gonna get murdered. I wish I was joking.
I get the Superbowl style buildup and look forward to taking the monies of the larger player pool. But why 4 months? Why not 2-3 weeks? Won't interest wane over that amount of time?
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bode
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: slow motion
Posts: 4,270
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Originally Posted by BennyLaRue
Won't interest wane over that amount of time?
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No, because theres no interest outside of Vegas and poker forums before the series airs on TV.
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Quote:
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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wont the series air like four months earlier?
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nibbles
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 374
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I had hoped that this would be a one and done concept, but I guess it is here to stay. With Ivey in the running, PR people will cream their pants for the next 4 months. I read that they added an extra day off for the heads-up finale. Promotions, hype, bullsheet. I still don't think this makes things better.
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Parasurama
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: DMT
Posts: 820
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The thing that I dislike the most about it is it takes away from the idea that the ME is the biggest most important poker tournament of the year by turning it into a gimmicky media and marketing event. That is, for it to be the biggest poker tournament, it has to have all the characteristics of a regular poker tournament but just be bigger. Since now the ME has this delayed final table and all of the things that come with that, it just doesn't feel like the biggest poker tournament anymore.
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wufwugy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,660
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just about anything that makes poker look more like a sport is a good thing.
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItDrew
This decision hurts the players at the final table and benefits everyone else. I'm a greedy selfish son of a bitch so I say bravo espn.
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Actually, the players at the final table will benefit from this, except for the top 2 or 3 in skill. The only negative from this break is that of coaching for the lesser skilled players in this situation.
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Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
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Extremophile
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Stackton
Posts: 451
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Ivey FT'ed ME! I checked the chip counts from the website but they are not telling us the blinds. Does anybody know what the starting blinds will be in the FT?
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nibbles
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 374
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It's a shame that Ivey is so short stacked. I think this will put a damper on chatter his presence would bring if he had a significant stack. Ivey is pretty tight-lipped as it is, so I doubt he will be talking much now.
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mbiz
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Orstraya
Posts: 178
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imo
a lot of the people that were commited to following the main event will probably not even remember to watch the final table by then, or just not care about it
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,322
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItDrew
Quote:
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Originally Posted by BankItDrew
This decision hurts the players at the final table and benefits everyone else. I'm a greedy selfish son of a bitch so I say bravo espn.
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Actually, the players at the final table will benefit from this, except for the top 2 or 3 in skill. The only negative from this break is that of coaching for the lesser skilled players in this situation. |
Yeah! You tell that newb!!
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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pokerdog283
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5
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I called this gap in time between deciding the final table and playing the final table WSOP: the search for more money!
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05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
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