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Transitioning from NLHE to PLO

  
 
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Icanhastreebet
Old 08-16-2011, 01:51 PM     Post subject: Transitioning from NLHE to PLO #1 (permalink)  
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 Hello people of FTR. This is my blog for the transition from NLHE to PLO. After grinding like 400k VPP @ NLHE this year I got pretty sick of poker. I'm starting to play again now and have become super interested in learning a new game. At first I was thinking of going to HU sngs but everytime I've did this I have become sick of them in like a day and I'm not sure why. PLO however seems like a super fun/interesting/complicated game and it might be the future of poker so why not and it's actually a NEW game not a switch from 1 form of hold em to another.

I'm not really sure what I'll post in this blog besides my progression through PLO and probably random HHs. I'll probably have a list of goals in the near future and maybe a little strategy after I learn a thing or two. I just finished reading "Transitioning from NLHE to PLO "and it seemed like a super good book for a beginner but it was written in 2009 so I don't know how dated the info was about how bad some players are although from the stuff I've read in SSPLO on 2p2 people seem to be pretty silly and not really understand some basic stuff.

Also I will be starting with the lowest of low for PLO 5c/10c. Some people will call this a waste of time but it's just to get my feet wet for 5-10k hands and see how tight/loose I end up playing.
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oskar
Old 08-16-2011, 02:06 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 In b4 csd imo.

I wish you better luck than I had with dem PLO. My downfall were all the things that I had to unlearn from playing holdem, but couldn't.
Also: at no point while playing nlhe was I thinking: Man, I wich there could be less edge and more variance!
glgl with not getting sick of poker. I'm like 15k hands in @15bb since restarting and already sick of it again.
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Old 08-16-2011, 02:33 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Old 08-16-2011, 02:56 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Old 08-16-2011, 07:51 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 Hey Yaawn. Glad to see I'm not the only one switching to PLO. I've been at it (rather lazily) for 3 months now and have moved up to 10 PLO after beating 5 PLO. It's definitely doable man. The rake seems pretty bad at 10 PLO from my experience so far but with practice it is certainly a beatable stake. I look forward to playing at 50s and such where rake is reportedly not as harsh. Anyhow.

Also don't listen to Oskar imo. Yes there is more variance, but to say there is less edge in PLO than NLHE is kind of wrong. Players are generally worse at PLO as far as I can tell - they'll just bink very often against you when you get them all-in in unfavourable equity situations like 60/40 or 70/30. But in the long run that doesn't mean anything amirite - you'll win as often as you're supposed to.

GL GL sir, maybe we'll bump into each other on the tables at 10s.

 
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baudib
Old 08-16-2011, 10:52 PM #6 (permalink)  
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I don't understand how anyone could argue a good player will have a smaller edge in PLO than HE.

The chance to exploit catastrophic mistakes happens far more often in PLO than HE.
Playing big pots at small stakes.
 
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Micro2Macro
Old 08-17-2011, 02:13 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 good luck. i hope u run well above ev when the money starts to matter.
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Icanhastreebet
Old 08-21-2011, 07:51 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 Okay first update, down 9BI so far @ 10PLO. Dunno if runbad but I know some play bad. Ran a bit below eV. But who cares it's micros and I have like a million BI anyway which is pretty cool. Have a really good idea of how to crush this stake now so hopefully over the next 10k hands will just crush souls and then move up to 25PLO.

Some quick notes for anybody wanting to play 10PLO. I'll prolly add to these after I'm done with 10PLO.

10NL

1) Never cbet as a pure bluff. I'm not sure about this one now. I think there's a lot of spots v a lot of fish who just c/f but there's a TONNE of stations so you just have to be super careful and aware of who you are cbetting versus.
2) Find nits on your left, there's a tonne at this stake. Then you can iso/3b fish with hands that play good HU but not so much multiway like AA**.
3) Most hands with pairs and/or danglers are pretty terrible. eg.(9982r)
4) Get _XPeH_Te6e_ on your left as much as possible.(Nits on left once again) Iunno how important it really is to have nits on your left yet but having this guy on my left basically allows me to have 2BTNs on every table every orbit.
per orbit which is obviously pretty good for your winrate especially in PLO where position is WAY more important then it is in unlimited hold them.
5) Value bet a fucktonne then fold if you're raised.
6) There's a lot of value in limping behind because a lot of the time it'll be impossible to isolate players. This is why nits on your left is so cool because it actually allows you to isolate people.
7) Never ever slowplay.
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Icanhastreebet
Old 08-22-2011, 12:20 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 Okay so I realized I was losing 25bb/100 to rake @ 10PLO which is pretty absurd especially for a game as high variance as PLO. I've decided since I'm overrolled for 50PLO anyway and since I feel I have a better grasp on the game then I did a week ago it's time to move to 50PLO. I will also be mixing HU also since it actually runs @ PLO unlike NLHE.
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drmcboy
Old 08-22-2011, 05:41 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 highly recommend FR tables for nits on left/multiple BUs.
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daven
Old 08-22-2011, 08:04 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 move up, encounter respect for your raises imo
don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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Old 08-22-2011, 08:10 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 rake at 50 plo blows as well fwiw
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Icanhastreebet
Old 08-22-2011, 09:16 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmcboy View Post
highly recommend FR tables for nits on left/multiple BUs.
Makes sense, will probably try a session of FR soon.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bikes View Post
rake at 50 plo blows as well fwiw
Yeh I'd guess this but at least the pot caps. Trying to beat the rake at sub 50PLO though feels like trying to beat the rake at .5/1 or .25/.5 CAP NLHE. I need to dabble more before I'm comfortable playing 100PLO though. I feel like I have a pretty good idea about pre-flop strategy now and I've been playing and enjoying some heads up PLO. I feel like it's improving my game rapidly but most of the people I end up playing against seem pretty brain dead so hopefully I'll get experience versus some semi-competent competition soon and be able to start understanding the game past a oh this is a good hand to 3b, oh I should check back here because getting c/r'd sucks and I have backdoors level. This was kind of rambling but w/e. drmcboy what stakes of PLO are you currently playing and how do you feel about FR v 6m and what kind of adjustments do you need to make for FR? Like how do we play bad aces UTG @ FR if the flop is 5way every hand in single raised pots?
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Old 08-22-2011, 09:35 PM #14 (permalink)  
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oskar
Old 08-23-2011, 01:15 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baudib View Post
I don't understand how anyone could argue a good player will have a smaller edge in PLO than HE.

The chance to exploit catastrophic mistakes happens far more often in PLO than HE.
It's harder to make catastropic mistakes in plo.
I doubt that plo regs have a better hourly at the same stdv / hands per hour, but I dunno.
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Icanhastreebet
Old 08-23-2011, 01:47 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oskar View Post
It's harder to make catastropic mistakes in plo.
I doubt that plo regs have a better hourly at the same stdv / hands per hour, but I dunno.
This just isn't true at all. I was going to elaborate but the fact that people have higher winrates at pretty much every stake except like the micros afaik because rake is a lot worst at PLO pretty much proves this.
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Icanhastreebet
Old 08-23-2011, 01:54 PM #17 (permalink)  
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 Also quick update on poker/work ethic in general. Since I've got on this PLO binge I think I've studied/reviewed nearly 3hours everyday for the last week. I also just feel like playing a lot more in general but I don't really care what game I play. I just have an urge to put in hands at whatever game. PLO is my main focus right now but I think in the future I may end up playing both PLO/NLHE. If I get bored I'll probably just try and learn a new game if this is the result I'm going to be getting. Ofcourse this may not be optimal for hourly atm but in the future this will allow me to play w/e I feel like and game select higher stakes.
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drmcboy
Old 08-23-2011, 02:08 PM #18 (permalink)  
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Quote:
drmcboy what stakes of PLO are you currently playing and how do you feel about FR v 6m
American steaks so all this is pre BF


re PPs in FR I would often limp with a hand like KK72r that I might just fold in 6m because it was more likely I could play the hand cheap. also if the pots are going 5 way it will more likely you can get all the money in on flop when you get there.


in general FR players are just not very good, too passive, too much fit or fold even in HU/3 way pots. most of my play was at 200plo and at least at that level the best 6 max guys seemed to have some sort of disdain for FR (or maybe they just had enough tables) so you could easily avoid them. there was about 1 guy (sittingbully who played like every stake) who was decent. And when you get a fish or two the table is much less likely to break vs 6 max. same at 100plo although I didn't play much 6max there but there were no good players in FR.

at 400plo 1-2 of the 6 max regs would usually come sit at FR plus there were a couple more legit FR guys so it wasn't nearly as big a difference.
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drmcboy
Old 08-23-2011, 02:20 PM #19 (permalink)  
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 re opening range I'd play more or less whatever you are playing in LP, but instead of almost always raising I'd be opening limping a lot with the bottom 50% or so - bad high pair hands, weak suited Ax, 6542r etc.
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Penneywize
Old 08-23-2011, 07:02 PM #20 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet View Post
Okay so I realized I was losing 25bb/100 to rake @ 10PLO which is pretty absurd especially for a game as high variance as PLO. I've decided since I'm overrolled for 50PLO anyway and since I feel I have a better grasp on the game then I did a week ago it's time to move to 50PLO. I will also be mixing HU also since it actually runs @ PLO unlike NLHE.
Yeah, at 5 PLO I was paying about 22bb/100 and about the same for 10 PLO. But this hasn't stopped me from posting decent winrates over 5bb/100. It's pretty sick though, you're absolutely right. My fear re moving up is that the reduction in rake will not be enough to offset the skill disadvantage I will have against the field. No offense (literally, because I have no idea how good you are at plo ) but in your shoes I would be wary of this as well.

Maybe try 25s first?

btw I'm back in Canada and am up for a sweat any time. You have my skype ldo

 
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Penneywize
Old 08-23-2011, 07:07 PM #21 (permalink)  
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 by the way oskar keeps making really weird and untrue statements about PLO and it is bugging me. I'm not sure what is meant by 'harder to make catastrophic mistakes in PLO'... is it that when you get an opponent who's dominated all-in against you, he still usually has a fair amount of equity as opposed to similar situations in NLHE? This doesn't make it harder to make mistakes, it just pretty much leads to increased variance in results.

The good news is that, imo, this type of format is probably conducive to keeping bad players around longer.

 
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oskar
Old 08-24-2011, 06:37 AM #22 (permalink)  
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 Yes, that's what I was saying. Semantics I guess.
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baudib
Old 08-24-2011, 08:14 AM #23 (permalink)  
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I mean, I like oskar so I don't like to rag on him. But, no, I just can't see it. Pots are bigger in PLO and played to the river more often and there is just a ton of spots for bad players to hang themselves.

There's a hand that P4s posted a while back where someone stuck in 300 BBs or something with the nut straight when he was clearly being freerolled, those are the kind of disasters/insanely profitable spots that almost never happen in unlimited hold'em.
Playing big pots at small stakes.
 
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Penneywize
Old 08-24-2011, 05:51 PM #24 (permalink)  
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 pffft, I like to rag on oskar!

 
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Old 08-24-2011, 06:34 PM #25 (permalink)  
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 I read somewhere awhile back that nlhe is a game of many small edges and plo is a game of fewer but much larger edges, seems like that's what oskar's talking about.
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Icanhastreebet
Old 08-24-2011, 08:17 PM #26 (permalink)  
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 Here's some ring games hands from 50PLO for the luhls and for the wtf why I do this shit. If I did something clearly wrong in any of these let me know.

This is probably pretty spewy and should just fold to the 5b but I'm not doing terrible unless someone has a big rundown etc. Would be pretty std if I had a 9 instead of a J or 7.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
PL Omaha $0.50(BB) Replayer
SB ($181)
BB ($81.90)
UTG ($118)
CO ($305)
Hero ($124)

UTG antes $0.10
CO antes $0.10
Hero antes $0.10
SB antes $0.10
BB antes $0.10

Dealt to Hero J 8 7 T

UTG raises to $1.50, CO raises to $5.75, Hero calls $5.75, fold, BB calls $5.25, UTG raises to $29.50, CO raises to $100, Hero calls $95, BB calls $76.05 (AI), UTG raises to $117 (AI), CO calls $17.15, Hero calls $17.15

FLOP ($436) 5 3 A

CO bets $157, Hero calls $6.05 (AI)

TURN ($448) 5 3 A 9

RIVER ($448) 5 3 A 9 3

UTG shows 2 K A K
(Pre 24%, Flop 20.9%, Turn 0.0%)

CO shows Q K Q A
(Pre 30%, Flop 19.4%, Turn 0.0%)

Hero shows J 8 7 T
(Pre 23%, Flop 5.5%, Turn 0.0%)

BB shows J 6 7 7
(Pre 22%, Flop 54.2%, Turn 100.0%)

UTG wins $54.15
CO wins $66.25
BB wins $325

This one is super standard. Just showing how bad some people can play @ 50PLO. I'm pretty sure villain should be c/cing the flop this deep as he can easily be crushed but it's probably not that bad on his part.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
PL Omaha $0.50(BB) Replayer
SB ($120)
BB ($127)
UTG ($36.60)
UTG+1 ($167)
CO ($125)
Hero ($169)

Hero antes $0.10
SB antes $0.10
BB antes $0.10
UTG antes $0.10
UTG+1 antes $0.10
CO antes $0.10

Dealt to Hero 4 A K A

fold, UTG+1 raises to $1.50, CO raises to $5.85, Hero calls $5.85, fold, fold, UTG+1 calls $4.35

FLOP ($18.90) 8 5 3

UTG+1 checks, CO checks, Hero bets $15, UTG+1 raises to $63, CO folds, Hero raises to $163 (AI), UTG+1 calls $98.25 (AI)

TURN ($341) 8 5 3 A

RIVER ($341) 8 5 3 A 3

Hero shows 4 A K A
(Pre 62%, Flop 61.7%, Turn 90.0%)

UTG+1 shows K 9 8 6
(Pre 38%, Flop 38.3%, Turn 10.0%)

Hero wins $338

In this hand I'm playing against a fairly nitty reg who probably has AAxx 100% here once he 4bs so I obv flat. I'm flipping v random AA on this flop and am quite happy to pot when checked to since having ANY FE whatsoever makes this a ldo bet.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
PL Omaha $0.50(BB) Replayer
SB ($128)
BB ($153)
UTG ($54.15)
CO ($214)
Hero ($249)

Hero antes $0.10
SB antes $0.10
BB antes $0.10
UTG antes $0.10
CO antes $0.10

Dealt to Hero 8 Q K T

fold, CO raises to $2, Hero raises to $7.25, fold, BB calls $6.75, CO raises to $29.75, Hero calls $22.50, fold

FLOP ($67.50) 3 J K

CO checks, Hero bets $65.50, CO raises to $184 (AI), Hero calls $118

TURN ($436) 3 J K 2

RIVER ($436) 3 J K 2 3

Hero shows 8 Q K T
(Pre 36%, Flop 42.9%, Turn 32.5%)

CO shows T 7 A A
(Pre 64%, Flop 57.1%, Turn 67.5%)

CO wins $434

In this hand I didn't wanna 4b and be OOP to 2 villains. Something awesome happens though and then villains decide to get it in with some of the worst hands possible.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
PL Omaha $0.50(BB) Replayer
SB ($50)
BB ($40.35)
Hero ($154)
UTG+1 ($136)
CO ($133)
BTN ($170)

BTN antes $0.10
SB antes $0.10
BB antes $0.10
Hero antes $0.10
UTG+1 antes $0.10
CO antes $0.10

Dealt to Hero 7 A 7 A

Hero raises to $1.50, fold, CO calls $1.50, BTN raises to $7.35, fold, fold, Hero calls $5.85, CO raises to $30.75, BTN calls $23.40, Hero raises to $124, CO raises to $133 (AI), BTN raises to $170 (AI), Hero calls $30.40 (AI)

FLOP ($444) 3 9 7

TURN ($444) 3 9 7 2

RIVER ($444) 3 9 7 2 J

BTN shows 6 6 Q Q
(Pre 17%, Flop 3.9%, Turn 2.8%)

Hero shows 7 A 7 A
(Pre 60%, Flop 89.8%, Turn 94.4%)

CO shows Q 8 K K
(Pre 23%, Flop 6.3%, Turn 2.8%)

Hero wins $441
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drmcboy
Old 08-24-2011, 08:39 PM #27 (permalink)  
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 you have less equity in hand 1 vs AA HU with Td9d87 than you do with JT87, not that it's enough to matter at all either way. connectivity is much more important when there is money to play.

you have 25% vs AA**, 10% and 15%, and it goes up to 30% if you're in against AA**,AA** & 15%. So I would not fold assuming you can afford to be in the game to begin with. Plus I would guess you will handle losing the pot better than some of the others and playing here may get some more KKxx/QQxx spews vs you like in the last HH.
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:06 PM #28 (permalink)  
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 imo I probably fold to the 5bet in hand 1. The strength of a strong suited rundown like JT87 is that it flops very well and thus allows you to continue on a lot of flops. It runs okay hot and cold, but by getting it all in pre you're pretty much forfeiting the advantage of having a very smooth and favourable flop equity distribution against AAxx and even KKxx or QQxx type hands.

I don't mean to say the move it outright bad, I think drmcboy alluded to this being okay. I would just prefer the lower variance route here, we don't really have a clear edge getting it in pre.

What sucks is that occasionally our flush draw will be nutted and we may also be up against a premium broadway rundown like KQJT. Would be nice to have reads on villains here obv but anyhow.

Let me know if my thought process here is shitty.

 
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:46 PM #29 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by drmcboy View Post
you have less equity in hand 1 vs AA HU with Td9d87 than you do with JT87, not that it's enough to matter at all either way. connectivity is much more important when there is money to play.

you have 25% vs AA**, 10% and 15%, and it goes up to 30% if you're in against AA**,AA** & 15%. So I would not fold assuming you can afford to be in the game to begin with. Plus I would guess you will handle losing the pot better than some of the others and playing here may get some more KKxx/QQxx spews vs you like in the last HH.
Okay cool so I guess the other hands were all fine as played which is good. I think my biggest leak so far is making silly river calls. I'm finding there's almost no regs or fish that bluff IP anywhere near a high enough frequency to be calling with some of the things I do like bad flushes on paired boards and shit.
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:01 PM #30 (permalink)  
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Those HHs are great

Hand 1: JT87ss plays better vs. 3 top 10% hands than KQJT.

Hand 3: I thought this was shit only I did, not sure I would 3-bet a nitty guy with this hand though.
Playing big pots at small stakes.
 
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Old 08-25-2011, 12:23 AM #31 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by baudib View Post
Those HHs are great

Hand 1: JT87ss plays better vs. 3 top 10% hands than KQJT.

Hand 3: I thought this was shit only I did, not sure I would 3-bet a nitty guy with this hand though.
Well I definitely wouldn't 3b a nitty guy if we were like 150bb deep but once stacks get to 425bb I think we can 3b like SUPER wide IP(If stacks were like 250bb I'd probably 3b wide but smaller so I have room to flat a 4b and play post ldo). I know if I was in his seat and someone started to 3b me a lot I'd be actually very uncomfortable so I want to make him feel this way as much as I possibly can.
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Old 08-25-2011, 12:37 AM #32 (permalink)  
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yeah i mixed up the stack sizes in hands 3/4 (thought you were like 250). i probably wouldn't feel comfortable playing that deep anyway so...
Playing big pots at small stakes.
 
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drmcboy
Old 08-25-2011, 06:09 AM #33 (permalink)  
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Let me know if my thought process here is shitty.
deciding not to play because someone might have the worst possible hand is like me saying they have AA72, AA93 and 2244 so it's a horrible fold. The possibility of our draw(s) being dominated is factored into the numbers already.

If you have problems playing with some dead money in a 4 way pot getting 25% it means you're under-rolled in general and probably means PLO is not your game.

I'd always rather play a flop with any hand but it is what it is.
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baudib
Old 08-25-2011, 06:46 AM #34 (permalink)  
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btw on hand 2, is anyone folding villain's hand? I guess it's obvious you have the NFD after you shove but I don't think folding top pair + gutter w/FD in a 3-bet pot is ever happening.
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Old 08-25-2011, 01:50 PM #35 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by baudib View Post
btw on hand 2, is anyone folding villain's hand? I guess it's obvious you have the NFD after you shove but I don't think folding top pair + gutter w/FD in a 3-bet pot is ever happening.
Well he obviously can't fold after his c/r. I'm just not sure if c/r is > c/c. c/ring and getting 3b pretty much blows because you pretty much get in ahead but when we c/c the turn is going to be easy to play and villain might even just give up and we get to showdown with our pair of 8s or w/e. If he bets the turn(large) and we brick I think we can easily just c/f. We can c/shove Ks and 8s and 7s and probably be freerolling whenever he b/cs a 7 turn. Spades are going to be tricky but I think c/c, c/f v almost any 50PLO villain would be the std. Possibly even c/fing the turn v tighter villains who aren't capable of bluffing.


@drmcboy It's not that I'm not rolled lol It's not understanding how good my hand is 4way even this deep. 100bb-150bb I auto stack off after putting in a 3b. I've only been PLOing for like a week and still have a tonne of shit to learn, even basic things. I thought it was a stack off but wasn't sure which is why I asked ldo.
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Old 08-25-2011, 02:27 PM #36 (permalink)  
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It's close but I like c/r; it can't be a huge mistake, even against your hand he has ~40%. You can easily have a hand like 9876 or 8765 w/o spades.

as for the JT87, a lot of time with that type of action they'll be sharing so many cards you'll be the favorite.
call on the flop is good getting 70-1 IMO.
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drmcboy
Old 08-25-2011, 02:39 PM #37 (permalink)  
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 my comment was not directed at you, the quote was from penny
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Old 08-25-2011, 05:51 PM #38 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by drmcboy View Post
deciding not to play because someone might have the worst possible hand is like me saying they have AA72, AA93 and 2244 so it's a horrible fold. The possibility of our draw(s) being dominated is factored into the numbers already.

If you have problems playing with some dead money in a 4 way pot getting 25% it means you're under-rolled in general and probably means PLO is not your game.

I'd always rather play a flop with any hand but it is what it is.
are you ever not harsh? heheh

Anyhow let me assure you that my wanting to fold here has nothing to do with my bankroll, I figured out early on that PLO is swongy as hell and I need to follow 50 BI brm for any stake.

Regarding the hand, is it not fair to say that folding here would only at worst be a very small mistake, given that our immediate pot odds for getting it in require us to have 39.1% equity, and only if we assume everyone else behind us gets it in as well (probably not a huge assumption) we require only about 23%?

If BB folds here it makes our play much more marginal. We only need him to fold a small % of the time (after we call) to make our profitability between folding and calling equal, after factoring in rake.

So thoughts on this or are we done entertaining the noob's thought processes?

 
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drmcboy
Old 08-25-2011, 06:09 PM #39 (permalink)  
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 No idea what about that post was 'harsh'. Being under-rolled or not suited for PLO isn't an insult. you can make a legit argument the swings are so silly in PLO no one should seriously play it.

If you're looking for internet cat speak or smileys, I'm 34, male and not retarded.

That's me being harsh.

FWIW I wouldn't play PLO without at least 100BIs.

By far the most likely scenario with no other reads is that they both have AAxx/AKKx. So if you can find a 3 or 4 way pot with two AAxx where you don't have a good price, fold away. The fact that we're break even more or less when it's only one AAxx is just a bonus.
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Old 08-25-2011, 06:30 PM #40 (permalink)  
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 Ok, fair enough. Thanks for the replies drmc.

some cat speak would be nice every now and then though.

 
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Icanhastreebet
Old 08-25-2011, 09:28 PM #41 (permalink)  
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 Is it possible to even have an okay redline in deep 50PLO games where there's always 1-3 players with >70VPIP? I mean I pick up a lot of small pots and stuff that no one wants but my redline is HORRRRRRRRRIBLE. Right now it's -56bb/100 which is like wtf insane. My value hands pretty much always gets paid so I never get folds there though. Also I am value betting thin in a lot of spots v these super fish w/ like 2pairs and stuff and not getting folds when I do this either so is this just the result of playing a super fishy omaha game or do I need to find more areas to pick up pots?? I pretty much always bluff v weak players atm when I have blockers etc. btw if you fold every hand for 100 hands in a deep ante game you'll lose ~45bb/100 in nonshowdown so maybe it's actually not that bad. Despite this I'm still winning over my small sample of 3k hands.

Oh I also donk quite a bit and win a lot of 3-4way pots that way with top pairs and shit.
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baudib
Old 08-25-2011, 09:43 PM #42 (permalink)  
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Think about how many times you get it in and they have an overpair or like a 7-high flush draw and you have them 80-20.

Have you guys read Hwang?
Playing big pots at small stakes.
 
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drmcboy
Old 08-26-2011, 03:47 AM #43 (permalink)  
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 I would have sessions sometimes with good looking (0ish) red line but was never able to maintain, esp with 2-4 FR tables mixed in. donkpredator over at 2+2 (he's been banned like 5 times so no idea what his sn is now) usually had it in the positive when he posted a graph, maybe RS_Mig also, but mostly even the plo greats had negative red line.

I sorta recommend reading the HS PLO BBV/*** threads just to get an idea about this stuff although they are sometimes too frightening.
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Old 08-26-2011, 11:45 AM #44 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmcboy View Post
I would have sessions sometimes with good looking (0ish) red line but was never able to maintain, esp with 2-4 FR tables mixed in. donkpredator over at 2+2 (he's been banned like 5 times so no idea what his sn is now) usually had it in the positive when he posted a graph, maybe RS_Mig also, but mostly even the plo greats had negative red line.

I sorta recommend reading the HS PLO BBV/*** threads just to get an idea about this stuff although they are sometimes too frightening.
Why you make me look at this thread! Some of the things I'm seeing are absolutely unreal. How does one run 50BI below in AIeV in 8k hands?!?!
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drmcboy
Old 08-26-2011, 02:31 PM #45 (permalink)  
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 yeah I love PLO but doubt it will ever be the only game I play. Ironically I started playing PLO to have something more steady than donkaments in the mix. cool choice bro!
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Old 08-29-2011, 05:35 PM #46 (permalink)  
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 Over 9000 hands so time for an update. This is all 3-6 handed ldo.
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daven
Old 08-29-2011, 06:42 PM #47 (permalink)  
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 what have you been doing on the study front?
i'm planning to run up a plo roll once i've got my nlhe roll sorted again. Any tips?
don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
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Old 08-29-2011, 08:51 PM #48 (permalink)  
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what have you been doing on the study front?
i'm planning to run up a plo roll once i've got my nlhe roll sorted again. Any tips?
Read all the shit in SSPLO on 2p2. Watch the transitioning from NLHE to PLO videos on BFP first. Start @ 25PLO or 10PLO deep because it isn't as brutal on rake or 50PLO depending on how big of a roll you're running up. b/f a lot v the massive number of passives and barrel a lot v a whole bunch of players. Ezgame.
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Old 10-03-2011, 07:23 PM #49 (permalink)  
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 fml PLO is rigged.
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Old 10-03-2011, 07:27 PM #50 (permalink)  
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 Going to sigh dropdown to 25PLO and try to somehow survive.
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