Operation Winning is a Habit

Nice one; life > sleep all day.

Life: the 5-yr-old folded preflop, so it was just me and the twins camping out after 9 PM. They slept until 6:15. I slept until 5, about normal for me, and came inside to grind pokers. By 6:30, they were whooping it up so loud out in the tent I think most of the neighborhood could hear them. Guess they had fun...

Poker: up just less than $5 this morning, on about 400 hands, 2-3 tabling 4NL. I could probably play more tables, but I would have to TAGG-reg autopilot them. I don't wanna do that, yet.

HU play has made me a much better postflop player and gotten me comfortable with a large variety of opening hands. Session stats say (when I'm at a full 6max talbe) that I'm playing 40/20 vpip/pfr which is fine right now. Overall I'm more like 55/30, but I'm starting tables and playing lots of HU and 3-way hands. The fish don't last long, and one way to play lots of fish is to be there when they join.

HU is high variance. I'm up more like $7 up playing 4-6 handed, and down $2.50 HU and 3-2 way, mostly because of a HU hand where I got AQ < AK all-in preflop against a Lagg-tard. I'd play AQ against his 3bet/call-the-shove range all day.

Lost a 125 BB stack when 89s < T4s. I flopped 2nd pair + FD, and jammed the turn when the flush hit. He insta-called. I've gone over that one, but I don't see any way I ever get away from that hand. He was certainly a bit fishy and laggy, though not completely brain dead.

So far, so good with the staking agreement. I want so badly to win, not just for personal satisfaction this time, but so that my backers get a good deal. I think it helps focus me and keep me playin' good or sittin' out.

Theres no pressure Robb, Just take your time and don't try and force success.

1. Hero is 25/20 af = 6 over about 30 hands, but we've been playing short-handed. So he's nitty, and thinks I'm laggy. Probably don't have implied for this preflop, tho, right?

Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: $4.00
BTN: $3.19
Hero (SB): $2.97
BB: $1.20

Hero posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.06) Hero has A 8

UTG raises to $0.12, fold, Hero calls $0.10, fold

Flop: ($0.28, 2 players) 8 4 A
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.18, Hero calls $0.18

Turn: ($0.64, 2 players) K
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.32, Hero raises to $1.32, UTG raises to $3.70 and is all-in, Hero calls $1.35 and is all-in

River: ($5.98, 2 players) 3

UTG shows A T (One Pair, Aces) (Pre 72%, Flop 15%, Turn 14%)
Hero shows A 8 (Two Pair, Aces and Eights) (Pre 28%, Flop 85%, Turn 86%)
UTG wins $0.00
Hero wins $5.69

2. I know we're not supposed to set mine w/ low pp's any more, but this guy will stack off light. He's a 6max nit: 10/8 af=1.8 over 150 hh's at this point, very willing to stack off w/ TPTK.

Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): $4.96
SB: $4.20
BB: $2.80
UTG: $7.91
MP: $4.15
CO: $1.08

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.06) Hero has 4 4

UTG raises to $0.14, fold, fold, Hero calls $0.14, fold, BB calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.44, 3 players) K 7 4
BB checks, UTG bets $0.33, Hero calls $0.33, fold

Turn: ($1.10, 2 players) 3
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.82, UTG calls $0.82

River: ($2.74, 2 players) 2
UTG checks, Hero bets $1.82, UTG calls $1.82

Hero shows 4 4 (Three of a Kind, Fours) (Pre 54%, Flop 98%, Turn 100%)
UTG shows K A (One Pair, Kings) (Pre 46%, Flop 2%, Turn 0%)
Hero wins $6.07


3. Proud of this read - guy's a fish. Wondering about bet-sizing preflop?

Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: $7.13
BTN: $6.67
SB: $6.05
BB: $2.00
Hero (UTG): $4.22

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.06) Hero has K K

Hero raises to $0.14, fold, fold, SB raises to $0.46, fold, Hero raises to $1.42, SB calls $0.96

Flop: ($2.88, 2 players) T 8 J
SB bets $4.63 and is all-in, Hero calls $2.80 and is all-in

Turn: ($8.48, 2 players) A

River: ($8.48, 2 players) 6

SB shows Q Q (One Pair, Queens) (Pre 18%, Flop 24%, Turn 14%)
Hero shows K K (One Pair, Kings) (Pre 82%, Flop 76%, Turn 86%)
SB wins $0.00
Hero wins $8.06

Originally Posted by Robb

I know we're not supposed to set mine w/ low pp's any more,

Care to elaborate on this part?

Also, gj on hand 3.
Typical spot that makes me hate the universe and humanity. I usually call vs obvious fish, but still hating life.

Originally Posted by Shizu

Care to elaborate on this part?

Four years ago, we all agreed on FTR that whenever stacks were 20x, you could set mine profitably because lots of players would stack off with top pair hands. The game's nittier, now, and the TAGG-regs won't pay off sets.

The implication is that you need a read, right? If I read the posts in BC correctly, these days folks are saying that, "Who cares if the stacks are 20x, you're implied odds aren't enough to make calling with a small pp preflop profitable."

It doesn't mean we can't flat oop with small pp's, but there has to be some plan with the hand other than set mining.

I'm not certain of this. I'm just inferring from what I pick up from the better players on FTR as they critique hh's.

Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 3 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (SB): $3.02
BB: $3.55
BTN: $4.00

Hero posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.06) Hero has 9 T

fold, Hero calls $0.02, BB checks

Flop: ($0.08, 2 players) K 9 4
Hero bets $0.04, BB raises to $0.08, Hero calls $0.04

Turn: ($0.24, 2 players) 5
Hero checks, BB checks

River: ($0.24, 2 players) K
Hero checks, BB bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30

Villain was at table for 5 hands - no read. I didn't want to fold river anyway, he has a K here next to never. I might have found a fold until the bet sizing. What do y'all say, call or fold?

Fun hand, two players to my left are 65/45 af=3 and 65/15 af=1. Just looking for implied odds hands and multiway pots when this arrived, as the last 3 rounds at this table had been a shove-fest. TAGG-std was getting run over. The guy to my left is trying to play TAGG-reg poker. I gave up TAGG, changed up my preflop and starting playing much more passively.

WHEEEEEEE!!

Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (UTG): $5.71
MP: $4.00
CO: $2.93
BTN: $4.00
SB: $2.69
BB: $6.03

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.06) Hero has 2 K

Hero calls $0.04, MP raises to $0.18, fold, fold, SB calls $0.16, BB calls $0.14, Hero calls $0.14

Flop: ($0.72, 4 players) 6 T 2
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, MP bets $0.36, SB calls $0.36, BB raises to $5.85 and is all-in, Hero calls $5.53 and is all-in, fold, fold

Turn: ($12.50, 2 players) J

River: ($12.50, 2 players) J

Hero shows 2 K (Flush, King High) (Pre 71%, Flop 43%, Turn 27%)
BB shows 2 T (Two Pair, Jacks and Tens) (Pre 29%, Flop 57%, Turn 73%)
BB wins $0.00
Hero wins $11.88


Villain's 2 actually means I have 3 fewer outs than I was counting on, something to remember for next time. As it stands, I thought he would also shove here w/ any naked 8-out straight draw (and all 87 and 34 combos are in his range1), any set and maybe TPTK.

Originally Posted by Shizu

Care to elaborate on this part?

think about opponent ranges.

UTG is going to be opening a tight range UTG especially if a nit so he is more likely to be willing to stack off with those big hands than a lagg opening on the BTN. Then his range is full of trash so that even if you hit your set he is unlikely to have anything that he is willing to stack off with

A Lagg opening on the button is going to have a massively wide range , so is likely to have a high fold to 3bet.If you are sat in the blinds with a low PP and his fold to 3bet is high then you can 3bet and take down the pot. If he doesn't fold to 3bets you are likely to have to play 3streets OOP and end up folding so better then to fold preflop.

Originally Posted by Robb

The game's nittier, now, and the TAGG-regs won't pay off sets.

hmmmmm...fwiw, i'm not finding that to be the case at 5NL

Originally Posted by DoubleJ

hmmmmm...fwiw, i'm not finding that to be the case at 5NL

Yeah, it's villain-dependent, obviously, and the games have fewer of them as we move up. For right now, sets are getting paid off nicely at 4NL, too.

Let's not tap the glass, people.

It doesn't seem to be the case at 5NL on my site either, but probably it will change at higher limits.
I base it on villain's info. There are a lot of villains willing to stack off with any pair/any draw.
With no info, I usually fold small PP from utg and utg+1.

Was grinding about half an hour tonight when I got dizzy. Had to play a couple of big hands whoozy, then sat out. Up a couple of dollars.

Felt like I was going to throw up at cross fit around lunch time, but I was nearly done with workout, eased up one set and finished. Haven't felt bad since about 3 PM, and even worked in the garden when I got home.

May try grindin' again in a few minutes.

Update on how your feeling??

Better. No dizziness after that incident. Got into several big hands vs. a FEESH later that evening and picked up a couple BI's. Up about 3.5 BI's in the last couple days.

setmining is interesting. The profitability of calling low pocket pairs and then abandoning any hope of winning the pot if you don't hit a set is very villain dependent. the closer your loss-rate to zero when called low pp = true and flopped set = false, the more interesting sets become. Float, anyone? etc

Originally Posted by daven

setmining is interesting. The profitability of calling low pocket pairs and then abandoning any hope of winning the pot if you don't hit a set is very villain dependent. the closer your loss-rate to zero when called low pp = true and flopped set = false, the more interesting sets become. Float, anyone? etc

Yeah, that's something I'm realizing. You have a much better sense of your optimal flat/float range. I've been away from poker for a year. I know that range should be well-considered, but winning at 4NL doesn't require it. Seems like we could construct a range for (many villains at) 10NL or 25NL that wasn't exploitable, and was at least break-even (not counting sets). Then we could play some (most) of our pp's, even oop, and also hit the jackpot every now and again.

Should be able to grind a bunch this weekend, and looking forward to it. I wonder how I'm going to feel halfway through a six hour grind? Family's traveling to North Carolina, and I have to be in town for work.

Been grinding a good bit today, along with graduation events and our softball team winning their second game in the NCAA Div 2 playoffs. Another win tomorrow and they're at super-regionals, 2 wins from the D2 college softball world series for the fourth straight year.

Poker is still poker - some poor decisions, and some poor variance. I'm still winning at a decent rate, but it's harder than 4NL should be - or is it? We'll only know if I keep grinding and get some decent amount of hands in.

Wrote a long post about tilting, trying to calm it down. Accidentally deleted it (which tilted me a bit).

Short version: gonna change title of thread to "Tilting is a Habit."

Just had a much improved session, tho.

Originally Posted by Robb

Wrote a long post about tilting, trying to calm it down. Accidentally deleted it (which tilted me a bit)

oi did larrf

OK, so first full week of the stake, down half a dollar. Donked off some cash playing PLO and HU2's. In 6m 4NL, I'm running about 10 BB/100. That's slightly different than my staking thread post because I played some after posting.

So, I've been starting tables, joining lots of short-handed tables. Question: am I profitable doing it? Checked PT4, I'm running 17 BB/100 when super-short-handed.

So I guess the strategy going forward is obvious. Keep starting the tables and finding the fish. Keep grinding 6m, and ignore the other games for now.

Tilting is something I've been dealing with. I've always tilted a lot, but I got pretty good at controlling it quickly when it popped up. Sit out of tables for a bit after a bad beat. Some pushups or stretching. Quit playing if I'm stuck.

More generally, not tilting is about understanding variance, the good and the bad. After being back into poker for a couple of weeks, I'm having to regain that understanding. Stack off? No worries, just reload and play well. I'm not the biggest fish at the table, and if I keep thinking, keep solving problems, and keep folding, the wins will come. You have to let the card deadness go, the flop deadness, all of it. If you wait, the spots to barrel will start showing back up.

I think my tilt issues are patience-related. I know how often I should "flop good," how often someone should, based on the HUD stats, fold in certain spots. When I plan to bet/fold several times in a row in good spots, and have to fold to agression, I start to squirm. I think of it as spew, when it's not. Folding is NOT spewing. It's calling that would be.

I have to get back to the place where I understand the variance, keep picking good spots and keep folding.

Originally Posted by Robb

So, I've been starting tables, joining lots of short-handed tables. Question: am I profitable doing it? Checked PT4, I'm running 17 BB/100 when super-short-handed.

=> you are way better than the average fish that joins shorthanded, and far better than the average reg at playing super-short-handed = 17BB sounds about right...

Originally Posted by Robb

Tilting is something I've been dealing with. I've always tilted a lot, but I got pretty good at controlling it quickly when it popped up. Sit out of tables for a bit after a bad beat. Some pushups or stretching. Quit playing if I'm stuck.

tilt is for laughing at, yours and that of others. Particularly if they are wannabe pro-poker players = feel free to laugh at my tilt-hands whenever you get the chance...

Originally Posted by Robb

keep thinking, keep solving problems, and keep folding, the wins will come. You have to let the card deadness go, the flop deadness, all of it. If you wait, the spots to barrel will start showing back up

gold

Family's out of town, so I get to grind a bunch the next three days. I need to work 4-5 hours a day (tough life, right?), and do some work around the house for maybe two hours.

In my year off from poker, I took up gardening. I find it relaxing. Should help with tilt. Ton of fun to walk outside and see a bunch of vegetables growing well. I started my own pepper plants and some flowers indoors under grow lights, too. (Insert your juvenile weed jokes about the grow lights, here.)

Do I miss my family? Sure, but I'm making the most of the time I have batching it to get in some hands and make the house and yard look good.

Gotta go hydroponic bro. It's the only way.

Here's a graph using a filter for hands where the pot > 80 BB. Guess this makes me feel better. You can see the big ass tilt session starting about hand 130. The red line starts dipping first. I was getting run over and had to make some big laydowns, then tilted and spewed. Still, except for that session, I'm generally making good decisions in the big pots.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

The small pots are break even, the medium 50 - 80 BB pots I'm down $13. Any ideas on what that means? I think the medium-sized pots are steady negatives because I'm avoiding bad spots to jam, and the small ball is break even because I'm stealing enough and avoiding trouble.

Thoughts?

Originally Posted by Robb

The small pots are break even, the medium 50 - 80 BB pots I'm down $13. Any ideas on what that means? I think the medium-sized pots are steady negatives because I'm avoiding bad spots to jam, and the small ball is break even because I'm stealing enough and avoiding trouble.

Thoughts?

filter again adding vpip = true
then run similar filters but instead of absolute pot size do something that sorts by how many bbs you put in the pot

gardening is great. Where hipsters/hippies/farmers/depression era old people meet!

edit: also - i haven't been in touch with spoon for a while, but then i read things like this Math doesn't suck, you do.

thx daven - rookie mistake, but you know what? I'm just happy being back at the tables!

ok, w/ filtering done right:

• vpip = false, I'm down $25 ( - 27 BB / 100) over 2.3k hands
• vpip = true, hero committed < 25 BB to pot, I'm up $21.36 (28.2 BB / 100) over 1.9k hands
• vpip = true, hero committed 25-50 BB to pot, I'm down $3.21 over 90 hands
• vpip = true, hero committed > 50 BB to pot, I'm up $25.46 over 87 hands

Still I'm happy with the small ball, happy with the big pots, and not horribly behind in the medium pots.

Tough night. After posting above, I played 800 hands, down 2 BI. Just completely card dead, flop dead. Great deal of fish at the tables, all of whom pwn'd the shizzle out of me.

Played again after getting back from the bar, seeing off a friend who graduated and commissioned 2LT this weekend. Only had a beer, so I settled in for another grind, about 600 hands, up half a BI. Again, super-mega-retarded fish at all my tables, kept running into the nuts.

Didn't tilt. Had a wobble or two, but no spew-a-whirl tilt-fests.

looking at those stats above , it looks like you are running 45-50% VPIP. Is that solely a result of starting tables or are you tending to take the starting tables hand ranges to the full tables as well?
You should be able to filter by number of opponents to get your vpip, pfr ,3bet stats by number of opponents.

Something that can kill a session for me is starting a table and not leaving if the table sets up bad. If a couple of 52/6's or chronic 3bettors sit down to my left it behooves me to get up and start another table.

I also find that fish want to sit next to me (HU) so if I sit in the bottom left corner they'll almost always be on my right.

I start playing like the tables full when 4 seats are full (including mine). The other 2 seats usually fill up quick and by that time I'm usually HU on another table which is taking more of my attn.

I'm sure you've thought about these things a lot but they seem to work for me.

Couldn't sleep. Got in another 45 minutes 2-tabling HU and 3-way, up a BI when I quit around 4 AM. The guy I destroyed was min-stacking, ~ 30 BB's. He just shoveled the flop every so often, so I looked him with A5 > 22 and then, about 10 hands later, A7 > 22. That surely tilted him. The win with A7 was four clubs to my 7c, a flush. I don't feel too bad about winning with those coin flip hands. I would grind him down to 1/2 to 2/3 of his stack, then we'd be all in. I lost several fo those "small" all-ins I was dominating preflop or way ahead on the flop.

Originally Posted by Keith

looking at those stats above , it looks like you are running 45-50% VPIP. Is that solely a result of starting tables or are you tending to take the starting tables hand ranges to the full tables as well?
You should be able to filter by number of opponents to get your vpip, pfr ,3bet stats by number of opponents.

I think this is only somewhat caused by opening tables. I certainly play super-short-handed a ton, so that is skewing the results, a bit.

I try to adjust as folks join the table, tightening up as each new player sits down. I'm probably 80/55 (vpip/pfr) on the button HU, don't know BB because it depends on how much he limps. 3-way, I tighten up, as one player is often a complete unknown. 4-way, it depends. I'm still uber-loose compared to 6max, especially if I have good postflop reads on two of my opponents. I play standard once I'm facing 5 players.

Originally Posted by supa

Something that can kill a session for me is starting a table and not leaving if the table sets up bad. If a couple of 52/6's or chronic 3bettors sit down to my left it behooves me to get up and start another table.

^^^^^^ too true

Originally Posted by supa

I'm sure you've thought about these things a lot but they seem to work for me.

Yes, but it's good to know others are processing it the same way.

@Keith, I will look up some preflop stats later today. I have been playing lots of hands. Be interesting to see, I guess. Hope my backers aren't too upset I'm playing laggy.

Filtered for 5-6 handed. By the way, the laggy approach is intentional, not just "spillover" from super-short-handed. I was a 18/15 6max TAGG-nit during my successful early runs at 10nl, 25nl and 50nl, but got crushed at 100nl by the 25/18's.

I originally started playing HU to work on my postflop reads so I could open a bit in 6max.

In the past two weeks, obviously, I have opened up a great deal, and in the next couple of days I was planning to sit down and work on some standard preflop ranges by position. Still, I feel like I need a more wide open game, maybe 30/22-ish, at 4NL and 10NL, tightening up as I move up. That was the goal.

I think the stats below (are not a very large sample but still) show my SB play needs tightening up a good bit, amongst other things.

Thoughts?



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

HU, I'm 85/75 BTN (11 BB/100), 61/16 BB (7 BB/100). 700 HH. Up $4.90.

3-way, I'm 78/70 BTN (30 BB/100), 65/37 SB ( -15 BB/100), 40/15 BB (16 BB/100). 575 HH. Up $4.90

4-way, I'm 66/53 BTN (55 BB/100), 44/38 CO ( -64 BB/100), 52/31 SB ( -3 BB/100), 41/17 BB ( -29 BB/100), 690 HH. Down $5.30.

So...tighten up more 4-way, like Supa said. Work on less laggy approach to full table 6max.

I'm seeing some positives here, though we all have to realize its tiny samples, variance, etc.

That was a profitable 11 min break, up a BI.

I worked out at the university gym at noon with a group of faculty and staff. It's cross-fit style workouts designed by our athletic department's strength and conditioning coach. Then lunch at the Chinese Buffet, now home for a shower and back to work.

one obvious thing i saw was how do you get 26/16 UTG . thats implying an 1/3 of the time you put money in UTg you are limping in .Its not even as if you are limp 3betting since UTG 3bet is 0. Then once you do see the flop you only cbet it 2/3 times with what should be your strongest range.
same applies to a certain extent for MP.

overall it looks like you are playing 37/24 ish on a full table, giving up a lot of initiative and playing lots of pots out of position.

Up above you said that playing tag worked up to 50nl. Why try and beat 100nl opponents strategy by playing 4nl opponents. 4nl players won't play like the villains that you are trying to devise a strategy to beat , they
wont fold, float, 3bet ,bluff anything like the 100nl players so how valuable is the strategy you are trying to get to work.

i should add that my comments in this thread are to provoke thought/discussion and not meant as criticism or showing displeasure as a backer.

Originally Posted by Keith

Up above you said that playing tag worked up to 50nl. Why try and beat 100nl opponents strategy by playing 4nl opponents. 4nl players won't play like the villains that you are trying to devise a strategy to beat, they wont fold, float, 3bet ,bluff anything like the 100nl players so how valuable is the strategy you are trying to get to work.

i should add that my comments in this thread are to provoke thought/discussion and not meant as criticism or showing displeasure as a backer.

I appreciate the comments, Keith. I've never limped before in my poker career, so honestly was just trying it out. I got into several tables during long sessions where it was a massive limp-fest every hand, and I must have limped UTG 50 times in one 4 hour session late Saturday night.

Small sample skewed by a couple of sessions, I think.

What have I learned? I just can't limp. It's not in me. I just like throwing chips in and saying "I've gotta hand. Come along to value town." And I don't see any good way to take the initiative back, even with a 3bet, once I've limped. So, experiment over. No more EP limping.

I'll report back later on some preflop stuff I'm working on, some "default" ranges that I plan to use, trying to build a preflop profile that is positionally aware and overall about 30/23. I'll post those. I am capable of remembering what hands are on bubble for my ranges, and easing them in out of the range based upon my reads of villains' at the table. But you need some sort of baseline for doing it, or at least I do. Something better than "Ooooooooohhhh, let's gamboooooool!"

I think a wider range can be played aggressively and skillfully for a profit at 4NL and 10NL, with plans to tighten up a bit more for 25nl.

There were some positive things about my game two years ago, three years ago. But there were some negative things as well. I played like a robot and was inflexible, an agro donk. I only could barrel and 3bet and 4bet and shovel. I need to look for "value floats," rather than raising Villain off his hand. I need to get those extra 5 BB's into the small pots playing an extra street, sometimes passively, from position. My old habits were based on some primal urge to "win" by getting them to fold. My new habits need to be based on reading tough spots better than my opponents, and using the "check" and "call" buttons, too. I need to find "thin value" and the fold button, as in use the check/fold more often and the check/raise less.

That's what I'm trying to accomplish with the laggy 4NL right now. And as I said, I've done enough limping now to say I've given it a real go, and it's just not for me. Raisy Daisy. Except postflop, where I'm weak-tight and passive a good more than will probably be optimal. But I feel like I need to experiment with other aspects of poker so I can include them effectively in my game.

Originally Posted by Robb

I have opened up a great deal, and in the next couple of days I was planning to sit down and work on some standard preflop ranges by position. Still, I feel like I need a more wide open game, maybe 30/22-ish, at 4NL and 10NL, tightening up as I move up.

hammer the fish, whittle down their stack, by the time the nit at the table flops a set the fish is down to 9bb and you're laughing also, fish seem to have less trust of the guy who is in most of the pots. be that guy.

you limp and call more than is standard in a 'destroy dead money at the micros' gameplan. Doesn't mean it's necessarily bad, but it's definitely something you should think about. Once you have more data run a filter on vpip = true, pfr = false and run reports on types of hands (i.e. scs, s1gs, s2gs, Axs, small pairs, etc)

Originally Posted by Robb

saying "I just like throwing chips in and saying I've gotta hand. Come along to value town."

man, i need to work on this instead of "I just like throwing chips in and saying i've got two cards and that's about all i or anyone else is certain of". Obviously my value(?) late street raises allin get called more often than those of most, but i should probably be winning more of those showdowns..

Originally Posted by Robb

I think a wider range can be played aggressively and skillfully for a profit at 4NL and 10NL, with plans to tighten up a bit more for 25nl.

Agree completely. I mean, it seems that the last month or so 26-20 can definitely be played profitably at fullring 25nl-100nl, so it should win at 4nl 6-max...

Originally Posted by Robb

I need to get those extra 5 BB's into the small pots playing an extra street, sometimes passively, from position. My old habits were based on some primal urge to "win" by getting them to fold. My new habits need to be based on reading tough spots better than my opponents, and using the "check" and "call" buttons, too. I need to find "thin value" and the fold button, as in use the check/fold more often and the check/raise less.
But I feel like I need to experiment with other aspects of poker so I can include them effectively in my game.

very nice. Something to remember about thin value = if you aren't losing at showdown after your river value bets get called about (?) % of the time then you're missing a lot of value.

Originally Posted by Genius sig

when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?

Merge - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: $6.62
Hero (UTG): $4.84
CO: $4.00
BTN: $1.91
SB: $1.41

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.06) Hero has K K

Hero raises to $0.11, fold, BTN raises to $0.22, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.59, BTN calls $0.37

Flop: ($1.24, 2 players) 9 T 7
Hero bets $0.82, BTN raises to $1.32 and is all-in, Hero calls $0.50

Turn: ($3.88, 2 players) A

River: ($3.88, 2 players) 6

[spoil]Hero shows K K (One Pair, Kings) (Pre 84%, Flop 29%, Turn 18%)
BTN shows 7 T (Two Pair, Tens and Sevens) (Pre 16%, Flop 71%, Turn 82%)
BTN wins $3.69
[/spoil]

Note: in hand above, Villain was 70/30/0.8. It's hands like these that have me questioning the (short term) value of All-in EV (adj). You're playing against a range, and even though we got the money in behind, we're pretty stoked to play this line against this range all day for 50 BB.

Just had a 300 hand session, after working on my preflop. I ran 29/19 w/ 3b = 8%. I think that's right at my target.

Here's the work I did. These are the way I would default against an unknown. Reasons for loosening up: LP vs "steal from me" nits to my left, good read on someone I can outplay post (and position), a chance to play (even oop) against a cally-wally fish, limpers/stations to my right already involved. Reason for tightening up: Loose passive to my left, Loose-passive in blinds or super-agro 3bettor in blinds.

Hero's PFR Ranges:
UTG (11%): 88+,AJ+, ATs, KQ, 76s - T9s (half), small pp's (quarter)
MP (14%): 77+, AJ+, KJ+, ATs, 76s - JTs, small pp's (half)
CO (30%): 22+, A8+, Any 2 T+, K9s, Q9s, Axs, 65s - JTs, 97s - J9s
BTN (50%): 22+, ANy 2 8+, Ax, Kxs, 54s - 87s, 75s - 97s

I use my preflop cards to randomize the "half" and "quarter" combos above. Way too "fancy" for 4NL, right? Oh, well, it's practice for later, and may be -EV at 4NL. But not too much.

There's a ton of uncertainty in the blinds, but I was consciously tightening up. The BTN range seems pretty wide. May help to know I'm min-raising OTB, raising 2.75 BB MP/CO and raising 3.5 BB UTG. Steal success is right at 50%, which pays for itself, and playing a wide, weak range in position causes opponents at this level fits.

That's the plan for the next thousand hands. Thoughts?

Also, on Black Chip you start at "2 High" VP level, working up to "Ace High," with rakeback (trade in VP's for cash) kicking in at "7 High." I'm about 1/3 the volume needed (lifetime) to get to "7 High." At this rate, I will have achieved rakeback well before the bonus ends. Obviously, would love to move on up so that I get more than the starting level 15% rakeback.

The lifetime format is perfect for me. As long as you play at least one hand every 60 days, your VP's don't deteriorate. I get plenty of volume per year, but rarely can sustain volume per month as needed, for example, on Full Tilt a couple years ago.

I'm loving the PT4 HUD, and will defo buy it when the open beta concludes. I use the Merge icons to tag villains, and those show up in the lobby. I can immediately tell how fishy a table is and see if the seat I get is good or bad based on the known players at the table. There's plenty of fish every hour of the day, with 11PM - 3AM (Eastern US) agro-fishy and best, 5PM - 10PM tight-passive fishy, and every other hour seemingly loose passive fishy. Plenty of tables even at the nano's to bum hunt.

Starting tables rocks. It's high variance, but I have a nice game plan and can alter it to fit my opponents. Usually, the plan is to out-LAGG them with small ball and hope for a big hand to stack them once they've lost all respect for me. If they let me steal/cbet enough, I can "finance" my shots at the big pots, making the big laydowns and jamming when I look to be ahead. If they can LAGG it up with me, well, it's high variance, but it's what HU is all about. Still gets my heart rate up and the adrenaline pumping. Love that bare-knuckle brawl feeling to agro-donk HU play.

no doubt we'll be butting heads if we haven't already .

Originally Posted by WeaselT

no doubt we'll be butting heads if we haven't already .

That's fun, when you see someone post a hand in the BC that you played against them, and they're like "I know he's full of sh*t here at least half the time - he's a total donk-fish-tard..."

Left dinner at a pub and pulled out, drove half a block wrong way on a one-way street. Total brain freeze. Blue lights lit up immediately. Got off with a warning. Whew!

Speaking of brain freezes, I accidentally played 3 hands of 10NL this afternoon. I am in technical violation of my staking agreement. I misclicked and joined a 10NL table along with 3 4NL tables. Should have realized it when it asked for a bigger buy-in than normal, but I was up big on a couple of tables, then sat out, then rejoined. So I thought it was a 4NL where I had been running good.

I paid the BB, SB, folding both hands, and folded the BTN when I saw the blinds and thought, "Oh, crap, you bonehead!" Left table immediately.

So the "driving the wrong way on a one-way street" isn't all that out of line for brain freezes today. In my defense, the town I live in has about 4k year-round residents, half a dozen stop lights, and like three one-way streets that are one-way for about a block each. It's not Chicago or New York where every freakin' street downtown is one-way.

lol, brainfreeze must be going around today. Not doing much better.

Re: playing 30/22. It's taken me a while to figure out that playing too laggy at the fishy micro games on Cake is a mistake but taggin' it up a bit seems like it's better there. Merge is obv not quite as fishy and it may work better there. It seems like playing with that wide of a calling range is a mistake though. We still have initiative in these games whether the fish understand it or not. I think we also have a ton more fold equity in bigger pots HU or 3way than in small pots with multiple callers.

*edit* Meant to say you obv have a better understanding of ranges than me so laggy should work better for you.

Lost 1BI Wednesday and 3 BI Thursday, didn't play yesterday until late, picked up 3/4 BI and went to bed.

Why did I lose 4 BI? Of course, the reason is (as everyone expected) that I was playing wide/weak ranges in almost every spot. But I wanted to find the cause. Why was my laggy game working fine a week ago but was off the rails last two nights?

The realization hit me yesterday while gardening. I started out playing the laggy ranges on tables of uknowns, or "slightly knowns" gleaned from table starting. The site is still dominated by TAGG wannabe's and post-flop weak tighties. So my laggy approach was fine (maybe not best, admittedly, but fine).

As I've got the HUD optimized and worked on table selection, I focused on the fish (65/15's), the maniacs (45/35's), and the LAGG's (35/25's). I try to sit down with position on a couple, leaving TAGG wannabe's on my left.

I suspect everyone but me foresaw the problem: now I'm on loose, action-filled tables which are absolutely PERFECT for a TAGG approach, and I'm not playing TAGG-std poker. I'm ldo if you want to play laggy, table select to find nits, TAGG wannabes and weak-tighties. If you're table selecting laggy, why not open a small strong range of hands and camp on the nuts? Only open up when (if?) you stop getting action.

So I've learned some things this week:

• Play the game you've table-selected for, dumbass!
• Reversing, I can table-select for the game I want to practice.
• I'm very much aiming at mid 20's vpip, not 28+
• I need to work on calling ranges.
• I am still (relative to my opponent's) very good HU, and need to focus on that rather than "volume" during sessions, especially where I'm running bad. Go with what works.

A few observations about my learning process in the coming weeks:

1. Frustrating that FTR has devolved to the point where folks will say "fold pre/ldo he hazz a King" when you post a J9o btn flat HH in the BC, but when you ask for help on preflop flatting ranges, the thread goes silent. We used to have experienced players who would explain their reasoning. I wonder if the new era of one-liners has been ushered in by a general lack of friendliness I also notice in the BC lately. Bashing seems routine, not quite flaming, but "tough love" certainly.
2. Certain players I respect are disrespected these days on FTR. I can mention half a dozen, but I'll just mention Spoon. WTF? He was an ass, but he always willing to explain his reasoning and help others. But now he's gone? Wonder what happened? And now his advice is disrespected, too? WTFF?
3. Since I can't get help in the BC, I went elsewhere and worked a ton on my own, especially about flatting ip and from the blinds. I will report some of what find over the coming days. Also, this "equity" idea is often bullshit. Just because you have equity doesn't necessarily mean you have playable hand.
4. I got tons of help from Keith who typed up some notes from some things he's been working on during a mini-challenge where he's playing the nano's for a while. I appreciate his help, but (unfortunately for me learning when and how to flat/float), his notes focus more on aggression.

And a bit of a rant:

Sometimes, I'm a real dumbass, I admit it. But I am tired of "poker platitudes." I've seen so many different styles work, from nitty to laggy, and work over tons of hands. I've decided I'm going to take what I know and what I feel I do best, and experiment like crazy and do the maths and work on ranges and villain profiles and get my HUD in order, and I'm going to put together a game of Robb-poker, combo by combo (Shania?), position by position, merged range by polarized range. I'm going to do it at the nano's and improve it by tweaking it as I move up.

I don't give a flying furry what people think. I've been inhibited about what to post and how to play for too damn long. It doesn't matter if anyone on FTR or in the BC is impressed with me, it just matters if I win and know why the hell it's happening, so I can fix the problem(s) when I'm losing. I want a flexible game that can open up or tighten up when needed, and understand how to use all aspects of game play to win more: aggression, passivity, table selection, villain profiling, table starting, not tilting, br management - the whole deal.

There's a problem with being a BC-trained robot, with a TAGG-std game you don't understand because you've never properly studied, and the problem is that you get up around 25nl/50nl and you can no longer beat the games you're playing in. That's not gonna be me.

When I get to 25nl again, I'm gonna be there strong, winning and wise.