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| !Luck |
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So before you continue reading this realize that i have poor writing skills and you may in fact be dumber after reading this than before. This is basically a place where I will put my goals. Goals for March: Become a consistent winner at 50nl (current Winner at 25nl) Become 158 pounds (current 161) Current BR: 1350 (I won't move up until 1500 min or even 2k, depending on how i feel about my game) Volume goal: average 3k hands a day, this is tough goal considering i 6-7 table average. Side affect of volume goal, I should plat in march. NEVER look at cashier or ptr 3 until I am done with poker, only exception, when moving up and worried about destroying bank roll. Post a min of one hand a day on either FTR or two plus two. Skills to work on : Improve aggression, improve stealing blinds. Remove all hands where I am like, calling here is bad folding is okay and shoving seems to be +ev, I will grow a pair and do what my read tells me to do. This blog may be infrequently updated. !luck |
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Play for FREE and practice your game at...Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting! | |||
| !Luck |
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AA @ FR 25NL Tough river decision - Micro Stakes Full Ring Games - Micro Stakes Poker Strategy Forum So that is my first hand of march that I can't get comfortable with. UPDATE weight at 161.8 |
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| !Luck |
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| Booked 3.1k hands didn't look at cashier until I had only 1 table left and was winding down. I realized that i will have to play like 3.3k hands everyday if i want to hit plat by the end of the month or move up to 50nl. Guess time will tell. Also, I worked out my chest at the gym today. | ||
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| !Luck |
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3k hands today. played well for the first 1.5k then had my lesson with m2m. second 1.5k turned to shit, turned into spew monkey. I blame the delicious dinner burrito and m2m for showing me the way of the spew..... arg. i just need to pick better spots to try knew concepts. 161.2 Will work out legs right now. |
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| Micro2Macro |
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Quote:
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| !Luck |
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Good news: 4.4k Hands logged. Bad News: -165 or 6.6 buy ins Why did this happen? Maybe I should have apologies to lee. But more likely it was the result of the following events: 1x Set over set 1x KK vs AA So those are like eh, nothing can be done about it. I lost two more buyins when I reraised all in on flop with 1) Nut flush draw vs a fish, which is a huge mistake cause i had no fold equity. And 2) I did it vs another player with an open ended straight draw and an over pair, he called with A7s vs my 66 on a board of 345, which makes me only a slight favorite. The second was mariginal play at best, the first play was idiotic at best and drunk spider monkey retarded at worst. I also had some issues with My ak play. Like don't 4 bet a MP1 3 better in SB with AKs. it just doesn't make sense. So If i had to give succinct reasons and be truthful. Poor play turned a semi poor day into a shit awful kill me now day. Emotionally i feel fine. It is a pretty scary feeling to go from being up +185 on the month to down 70 or a 10 BI swing. Thank you bankroll management. For it is still a healthy 1250. I can handle 2 more days of this. Hopefully, my play and the flow of cards will improve. OH and btw I am running like 2 BI ABOVE AIEV. Cause one of my KK VS AA won. This is quite a ramble. Key lessons ) You have zero fold equity against fish, meaning shoving with nut flush draw on the flop. Is a massive spew. 2) Calling a 3 Bet from UTG+1 in UTG with AKo when you raised will never be a good idea 3) In general it is a bad a idea to cold 4 bet AKs in blinds vs a UTG open, followed by MP1 3 bet (who is fairly tight). 4) It is even worse to then call the 5 bet shove. Thank you for your time. It is times like this that test my resolve. |
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| Jason |
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| In my opinion, you should have a 5% of your bankroll stop loss. You stated your bankroll is now @ $1250 before you lost $165, so that means your bankroll WAS $1415. Five percent of that is $70, which is where you should have logged off and either called it a night or switched to something else like studying. Instead, you lost 11% in one day, which is just way too much to lose in any one day. You will very rarely be able to boost your bankroll 11% in a win, so you have to make sure you don't allow yourself to lose that much either. The main reason for this rule is to protect against tilt, which from your summary appears to have had some hand in the results. Learning to quit playing is a valuable skill. | ||
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- Jason
 
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| !Luck |
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Thanks Jason for your comment. For me it is tight balance, because I didn't how down I was until after I finished my session. Like yesterday I had 4 sessions of 1k hands or so. After the first 3 1k sessions I was down -50 or so. Then i relaxed tried to evaluate my plan. But my goal for this month is to never look at results until a min of 3k hands or better yet not all. Obv. losing 4 BI is a lot in 1.1k hands, so I was a bit surprised I had such results. But to be honest I played a lot better in the last 1k hands than the previous ones. Overall my day had a decent component of tilt. I do not think that 5% is a decent rule for me, though I may consider a 10% rule. But all those rules focus on money and I am trying hard not to focus on that aspect of the game. To tell you the truth, I do not feel that bad about yesterday. Actually, I barely feel bad at all. There were two situations that occur once every 5-10k hands that came up, I am now confident that I can play them correctly. Specifically, the having to cold 4 bet a 3 bet. And I keep having to remind myself that even with nut draw on flop, I am crushed by sets, so really there needs to be a significant component of fold equity plus there also needs to be worse draws. I think the second part is very important. If someone will stack off on a draw on the flop vs you, but will do it w ith a k2s or a straight draw vs your flush draw than it is mega +ev to just push that edge. However if someone won't drop top pair stacking off on the flop vs them is close to zero ev. And MORE importantly, you can get more money out of them by hitting your flush and having them pay you off. Just because I have a flush draw doesn't mean I should go for that small edge I have on the flop, it might be wiser to wait til the turn see if I hit or make a semi bluff there. I play 25nl, so i suspect that even if i hit my nut flush draw I will get at least one street of value, sometimes even two, cause poeple are distrustful. So the choice then is why get myself into a situation where I am at 48% equity when I can get into situation where I am 95% equity? Thanks guys for reading. Good news on the weight front is that I am 160, but yesterday negatively affected me so I didn't not work out. Boo me. -!luck |
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| Micro2Macro |
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| Jason $70 isn't even 3 buyins for !luck...losing 3 buyins is super standard and can happen within just a few hundred hands of your first session and shouldn't be the underlying reason to quit for a day. | ||
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| !Luck |
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3k hands PROFIT SWEET SWEET PROFIT. I made 60 cents. My 3 favorite hands. are below. PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com CO ($15.45) Button ($24.60) SB ($25) BB ($28.85) UTG ($39.90) UTG+1 ($33.15) Hero (MP1) ($26.05) MP2 ($14.75) Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 3  , 3 1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, Hero bets $1, 5 folds, UTG+1 calls $0.75 Flop: ($2.35) 3  , 10, A (2 players)UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $2, UTG+1 calls $2 Turn: ($6.35) 2 (2 players)UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $6, UTG+1 raises to $30.15 (All-In), Hero calls $17.05 (All-In) River: ($52.45) K (2 players, 2 all-in)Total pot: $52.45 | Rake: $2.60 ============================= PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com MP2 ($26.10) MP3 ($25) CO ($33.10) Button ($20.40) SB ($25) Hero (BB) ($40) UTG ($74.35) UTG+1 ($25.35) MP1 ($25.25) Preflop: Hero is BB with A , Q6 folds, Button calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero bets $1.25, Button calls $1 Flop: ($2.60) 3  , 7, K (2 players)Hero bets $2, Button calls $2 Turn: ($6.60) 10 (2 players)Hero bets $4, Button calls $4 River: ($14.60) 8 (2 players)Hero bets $32.75 (All-In), Button calls $13.15 (All-In) Total pot: $40.90 | Rake: $2 ======== PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com MP1 ($16.95) MP2 ($32.55) CO ($44.65) Hero (Button) ($27.15) SB ($18.05) BB ($18.75) UTG ($21.85) UTG+1 ($21.90) Preflop: Hero is Button with 4 , 4UTG bets $0.75, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.75, MP2 calls $0.75, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.75, 1 fold, BB calls $0.50 Flop: ($3.85) J , 4, 10 (5 players)BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 bets $3, 1 fold, Hero raises to $9, BB raises to $18 (All-In), 1 fold, MP1 calls $13.20 (All-In), Hero calls $9 Turn: ($56.05) 10 (3 players, 2 all-in)River: ($56.05) Q (3 players, 2 all-in)Total pot: $56.05 | Rake: $2.75 Results: Hero had 4 , 4 (full house, fours over tens).BB had A , K (straight, Ace high).MP1 had J , 10 (full house, tens over Jacks).Outcome: Hero won $3.45, MP1 won $49.85 |
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| Jason |
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I guess it's a style issue, but losing 3 buy-ins in a day is not standard for me ... yet.  For anyone who thinks 3 buy-ins is super standard, I'd say that player needs to drop stakes if that value represents 5% of your bankroll. That was one of the reasons I decided to wait until I had 40 buy-ins before I moved up @ $100NL and $200NL because I wanted to give myself a full 2 buy-in shot per day instead of just 1.5 buy-ins per day as a 30 buy-in bankroll would be.The main point is that you need to have SOME system in place to protect your bankroll for any given one day because you WILL tilt and play bad even if you don't think so or recognize it. If not 5%, it needs to be something. 10% is way too high for me personally - to lose 1/10th of what has taken me weeks, months, or years to build to be gone just like that should be scary to most players. And, for this personal situation, if you had as few as 3 more -$165.00 days, you'd barely be rolled for $25NL. So, I'm not saying to be scared, play scared, or constantly think about the money, but you DO need to think about it as some level and have a system in place. It's clear to me you didn't or don't and that's not the kind of thing you want to make a rule about on the fly. Decide in advance how you want to handle it and stick to it. |
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- Jason
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| !Luck |
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3 Buy ins is like super standard for me. I had many days where I had 5 buy in swings. But I think part of the difference between us, is based on your style of play it seem you get less hands in a day then I do. Are you saying that in all your career you almost never have 3 buy in swings in 3k hands? Let Alone 1k hands? For what it is worth Jason, you are by far the better player and it would make sense that you would have less swings. Thanks for posting. |
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| Jason |
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I don't think being a good or bad player affects swings per se and I'm not looking for any validation to that end, but thanks for the complement Good players profits go up long term. Bad players profits go down long term. Your swings are affected by many other things: your bankroll relative to the blinds, number of hands you play per hour, the degree of your edge in the games, your playing style, and luck are the main factors I think. The main reason I think I have less swings than most players on here is due to the number of tables I play, which is generally no more than 6 to 7 whereas I know many players like to massively multi-table much more than that. Partly related to that, I ALWAYS table select, so I am more often playing in easier games and games that give you a bigger edge reduce your variance because there are more places to pick up money. Massive multi-tablers generally don't table select because they don't have time to or at least not to the degree that someone playing 6 tables would. For me personally, I stop @ 5% which is between 1.5 buyins (30 buy-in bankroll) to 3 buyins (60 buy-in bankroll - rolled for next stake). So, in my world by my rules, losing 3 buy-ins in just one day is a pretty big deal. Yes, it's happened a few times and I always quit and I always reflect on the session and MOST of the time, I can remember several things I did that were suboptimal, tilty, or something new I learned and QUITTING was just what the doctor ordered. You don't want to log off for the session and think "where did all my $ go". The 5% rule helps with that. Like I said, if I got to the point where 3 buy-in swings were "super standard", I'd make sure I had at least 60 to 100 buy-ins so it wouldn't be 5% of my bankroll. Now that I'm on Full-Tilt, I can actually start playing there if I hit my Stars stop-loss, which is perfectly acceptable, since it's a separate bankroll - PROVIDED I think I'm playing well or can take a break and START playing well. You should ALWAYS quit, even if you're winning, if you're not playing well or tilting and don't think you can turn it around. So, how many tables do you play? How well do you table select? I don't want your thread to devolve into a stop loss discussion, unless you want it to, but I think it's an important concept to avoid the risk of ruin. If you consider yourself a developing player moving up the stakes, you may want to take a closer look at the number of tables you play if you massive multi-table. I think it can hinder the learning process because you just start clicking buttons and don't have time to think, reflect, or take notes. I consider adding more tables a privilege just like moving up the stakes because you've proven you can be proficient with that many tables for so long. At the very least, set aside days or sessions where you play less tables for the purpose of learning. Good luck. |
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- Jason
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| !Luck |
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Up until March 1, I played 6 tables sometimes 7. With the start of this blog, I forced myself to play 9. I suspect my table selecting is completely different than yours. Since I always play 50bb min tables, and I have no fear of picking a table that has a VP of 8%. I found that when i used to play std buy in tables i would make a solid profit, but I would not learn as much, since I would rarely get into those deep stack situations. So my table selections is not only poor but it is nearly on purpose "bad" I am trying to prepare myself to a be a winner at 50nl and above. And for what it is worth it takes me longer time to learn things so I need to see my mistakes a few time before it really sinks in, which is why I think I have been stuck at 25NL. Though it did take me 52k hands to beat 10nl. I suspect it may take me double that number to beat 25NL to my liking. As long as I keep learning, keep any tilt issues under control, I will keep advancing, I am just a little slow. How many hands a day do you play? Maybe I am not being hard on myself. I should try to play prefect poker every day. And I still make tons of mistakes. And other times i have hands like this which looks bad Poker hand played on PokerStars with a pot size of $48.05 - Pokerhand.org but considering he was very loose, very aggressive and I have seen him bet big on almost every river he has been in, I thought this was a snap call. Though I think about it, this is a prefect Bet fold situations, since in my mind this guy will call down light. So far that is my only stacking of the day. |
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| Jason |
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Now we're onto something. Yes, I filter 50bb OFF and wouldn't dream of getting on an 8% VIP table. You stopped playing easier tables on purpose to get better? I understand what you're trying to say but I just completely disagree with it. You should naturally find yourself in tough spots playing easy tables. You will find yourself trying to extract thin value from fish. You will find yourself tangling with tough regulars on easy tables heads-up or multi-way trying to get a fish's money. Poker is already hard. You don't have to go out of your way to make it harder, which is what it sounds like you're doing. Don't fool yourself, either, you're not going to show up to 8% VIP tables against a bunch of tight regs and start running them over. That's not a skill you're going to be able to develop or apply. You're either going to steal their blinds for a marginal profit, cooler them, get coolered, or occasionally out play them for a marginal profit. And, don't be apologetic about playing easy tables or winning. However you find a way to win @ $25NL WILL BE APPLICABLE @ $50NL - maybe not to the same degree for the same win-rate, but it's not going to magically dry up. In today's poker landscape, so far as I can tell, there are no MAJOR, climatic jumps across any one stake. If you are a reasonable winner at any one stake over a large sample size, you SHOULD at least be break-even to a small winner at the next level. If you want to challenge yourself, start your own tables when good ones aren't available. Now, you're table selecting while developing your HU and 6max game until the table fills up. If it fills up and the table still sucks, start over. On weekdays, I usually play 6 to 7 tables @ $200NL for a couple of hours or so for close to a thousands hands. On weekends or days off that number can double for time and hands played. I don't think I'd recommend any developing player @ micro-stakes to play on more than 6 tables and I'd highly recommend they BUILD to that number, not just start playing 6. When I was playing $25NL, I was only up to 4 tables and I remember that was a pretty big deal just like EVERY-TIME I add a table. You should be spending a lot of time observing, reflecting, and taking notes. With 9 tables, you're probably lucky to just keep up with the action and not time-out. |
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- Jason
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| Donachello |
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Jason really hit the nail on the head. Fish are the lifeblood of poker. That's why it's profitable to play poker. Fish. If you're purposely putting yourself in non-fishy situations then you're going about playing poker incorrectly. You play poker to exploit those weaker than you. End of story. Sure, at higher levels the definition of a fish may change to some extent as their skill set may change or improve to some extent but, if you look at it that way, why on earth are you trying to essentially lower your winrate by playing against people who will be BE or marginal winners at the next stake? That logic just doesn't make sense. Personally, I'd see you being way better off just beating your stake the way you most easily can, accruing as much money as possible in the most consistent, easiest way possible, and then moving up where you'll be tangling with better players who actually force you to play better to win instead of just trying to FPS every nit you come across. I don't mean to be a dick or anything and I'm sure you're probably a better player than I am considering the difference in our stakes. But your logic is just highly flawed in this respect. |
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[00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
[00:30] <DC> daven [00:30] <DC> on my hand? [00:30] <daven> yep [00:30] <DC> because I am drunk [00:30] <daven> nice reason [00:30] <daven> no further questions [00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol Problem officer...?
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| kdawgy80 |
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Certainly got some interesting debate going here about buyins, strategy and I have to say I have enjoyed reading. Figured I'd chime in as well. I'd agree with the two posts above in that your strategy -- while I see where you're coming from in trying to prepare for higher levels -- is a bit backwards but well intentioned. While playing against regs could in theory be good practice, they're not the people that you want to be playing against to make money off of and move up. What you want to do is be better than those regs at beating fish. To put it in one sentence, it's basically this big war of regs vs. fish out there and we know who wins. How much money you give back to the fish is what separates each reg from another. Of course the regs do give money to each other, but it's minimal compared to the volume and value of the transactions regs do with fish. I think it's more valuable to talk to regs on the forum where the advice/banter is free where as learning on the table may cost you  And in regards to moving up, I've found that the best way to prepare for higher levels is beat the heck out of the current level and then, when moving up, ask others who have done it before how they have faired, what they found different, why they made certain adjustments, etc. After moving up a few times you may start to adjust after playing a few thousand hands on a level. My move from 10nl to 25 wasn't smooth at all at first but after a while all of us get a feel for how the level plays and should try to adjust accordingly. Sometimes we just need to focus harder or get some tips from ppl who have been there done that. One more point I wanted to touch on is multitabling. I really think for those looking to move up that fewer tables will allow you to think and learn a lot more at your level, learn how to beat it and allow yourself to move up. If you're happy with where you are and have a gameplan you like, imo 8+ tabling or whatever is fine and dandy if you're beating a level and just trying to accrue fpp or volume or whatever. Such as heck is nice if you have a sweet ass rakeback deal... But I've pretty much 2/3 tabled since I started getting serious with poker (I always feel like such a n00b when I say I only play 2/3 tables lol) and playing such few tables really allows me to think through decisions, adjust to the specific table I'm at and allows me to open up 4/5 tables and then pick and choose which ones are profitable and which ones aren't. At the beginning of February I picked up playing 4 tables since I felt very comfortable with 3 and wanted to pick up some volume. It was only one more table, but the challenge of the transition was apparent. I would catch myself sometimes after the first 45 mins of a session completely forgetting about a table. I would look up and all of a sudden I would be 30 hands into a table and my stats would be 0/0 or 8/0 and 0 ATS. Obviously I hadn't seen any premium hands, I would have noticed that, but I wasn't stealing or bluff catching or making any kind of plays that required thinking more than about my hole cards. I've corrected it and am able to follow the action on 4 tables well now but it took focusing in a bit harder (shutting off the TV while I was playing, is one example) to be able to make the transition. |
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| Micro2Macro |
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bad regs are fish. nits are fish. anyone you have an edge on is a fish. everyone at every table you sit down at is a fish. every single player sitting at a table labeled anything below $5000 is surely weak and exploitable to some degree. quit feeling like you aren't adequate enough or something to crush 25nl because you certainly are, and certainly should feel as though you have an edge on anyone you sit down with. obviously table selection is important to building a bankroll, but you shouldn't go out of your way to avoid playing against other 'regulars' who are going to have tons of weaknesses you can exploit quite effectively. if you're able to keep your head on straight and not tilt and get into pissing wars and just aim to make the most +EV decisions, most of them will just spew off their stack to you. you don't need to run fancy bluffs, just play solid and you're crushing 99% of the population up to 200nl or so. |
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| !Luck |
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I am going to post some of my biggest hands some of these are wins some of these are losses. Your comments are appreciated. Hand #1: Villain is 25/18/9 (third numbers is %3bet) So when I called his 3 bet I said I will set hunt. Then I saw his tiny ass bet on flop and said Okay I am commiting and reraise. This is a mistake here. Cause i think my reraise can be defended. though calling his 4 bet shove is plan dumb. This is what happens sometimes to me with commitment decisions, i make them and then refuse to revulate as the nature of the game changes. PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com Hero (Button) ($26.80) SB ($24.75) BB ($34.40) UTG ($27.35) UTG+1 ($40.65) MP1 ($47) MP2 ($25) MP3 ($52.20) CO ($32.05) Preflop: Hero is Button with Q , Q4 folds, MP3 calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25, Hero bets $1.25, 1 fold, BB raises to $4, 2 folds, Hero calls $2.75 Flop: ($8.60) 3 , 8, 5 (2 players)BB bets $1.95, Hero raises to $7, BB raises to $30.40 (All-In), Hero calls $15.80 (All-In) =========================================== Hand #2 This was a fun hand. Villain here is 14/5 over 20 hands and he was a bronze star. Calling here makes more sense than 3 betting as it is likely he may not continue with a weaker range. Once the flop hits, i do a little dance. I choose to not reraise here because I didn't think that a flush draw was a big component of his range. Maybe KQs and that's it. By the turn he leads again and now I am trying to get all the money in. Again I am not worried about a raise here. He leads the River and I re raise for value. I wasn't happy with the J since AJ and JJ were in his range, but so was AQ. I cringe I call. Results will be posted later. PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com BB ($31.80) UTG ($10.20) UTG+1 ($30.15) Hero (MP1) ($25.35) MP2 ($12.85) CO ($14.05) Button ($15) SB ($19.75) Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K , A1 fold, UTG+1 bets $0.75, Hero calls $0.75, 1 fold, CO calls $0.75, 3 folds Flop: ($2.60) A , 6, 5 (3 players)UTG+1 bets $2, Hero calls $2, 1 fold Turn: ($6.60) 5 (2 players)UTG+1 bets $5, Hero raises to $11.50, UTG+1 calls $6.50 River: ($29.60) J (2 players)UTG+1 bets $10, Hero raises to $11.10 (All-In), UTG+1 calls $1.10 ======= Total pot: $51.80 | Rake: $2.50 ========= Hand #3 Button was 24/10/6 over 50 hands. Again my plan was to set hunt on the flop, since his price was just too damn good. the check and small bet reinforces that he is weak, my move here has to be to raise to 7 and fold to a shove. I suspect that would be better, cause at this point my river play is very difficult. Since AK, AA, and maybe JJ are in his range maybe even TT, but that is not relevant since it is only one combo. PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com MP1 ($29.70) MP2 ($30.70) MP3 ($25.70) CO ($20.75) Button ($30.70) SB ($36.20) Hero (BB) ($52.25) UTG ($32.65) UTG+1 ($28.70) Preflop: Hero is BB with Q , Q6 folds, Button bets $0.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $2.25, Button raises to $4, Hero calls $1.75 Flop: ($8.10) 6 , 3, K (2 players)Hero checks, Button checks Turn: ($8.10) 10 (2 players)Hero checks, Button bets $2, Hero calls $2 River: ($12.10) 10 (2 players)Hero bets $3, Button raises to $10, Hero folds Total pot: $18.10 | Rake: $0.85 ================ Intial raiser was 54/39/6 over 59 hands. I think my play here was to 3 bet preflop. because by calling a situation that is very diificult to play. I think calling flop was very dumb. calling the Button's raise was even dumber since he was 10/6, then intial aggesor bets, I am so beat here that I need to run and fold. PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com UTG ($21.10) UTG+1 ($35.20) MP1 ($32.90) MP2 ($25) Hero (MP3) ($26.25) CO ($15) Button ($37.05) SB ($27.60) BB ($82.75) Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A , QUTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 bets $1, 2 folds, Hero calls $1, CO calls $1, Button calls $1, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.75 Flop: ($5.35) A , J, 10 (5 players)UTG bets $2, UTG+1 calls $2, Hero calls $2, CO raises to $14 (All-In), 1 fold, UTG calls $12, 1 fold, Hero raises to $25.25 (All-In), UTG calls $6.10 (All-In) |
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| kdawgy80 |
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#1) How many hands do we have on him to say he's 25/18/9? If it's a lot, I'd say his range is pretty darn wide and he may be three betting us with 88+, AK, AQ something in that neighborhood. Maybe only TT+. When he donks the flop in front of us I think he's trying to get it in with a set/overpair but I'd imagine that with a high 3bet (assuming this isn't a tiny sample) he's shoving 99,TT,JJ a lot as well as of course AA, KK in this spot so we're not as far behind as it looks. I'd also like to know our ATS as that may help tell us how light he's 3betting and thinking we're just robbin blinds. #2) I think we're looking at someone with an A here since I don't feel he's likely to be opening with 55 or 66 from such and early position and the second five only helps that feeling. He does bet out three times, but if he turned a boat I can't believe he doesn't shove after we raise behind him. I'm thinking he's got AK, AQ or AJ and hoping it's not AJ. #3) I'm not sure what to think of this one. The check behind on the flop and small turn bet make it look like he missed with some midpair and is afraid of the K. But I feel like I see AK a lot with this line here. The flop is really dry and if he's got AK he's almost got to check to see if you'll take a stab at it on the turn or maybe you pick up a card and he's still way ahead. I do have to say I admire your ability to walk away on the river there. Given your deep stack you can walk away and not have to think twice. I think we're beat here. #4) Pretty much agree with your assessment. I don't mind the call pf, but once we do that and see all the calls behind we need to realize that unless this flop nails us we're going to have to be ready to let it go. Another option is to raise it up ($4-5?) and try and iso on UTG+1. We're way ahead of him here, I think and am confident we can outplay post flop. Once this flop comes, we're way behind AK, AJ, AT, KQ all of which are well within everyone's range. The call of $2 is neither here nor there but once CO comes over the top we've got to get out. |
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| !Luck |
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| Going back to topic. I really like to think that everyone is a fish. I do believe that table selection is important. But, for what its worth I have an edge on nearly ever single reg at 25nl. Now I may only have that edge when I play my A game, but I know the edge is there. I will continue to play my style for march and if I haven't made progress I will consider switching, but to be fair, I am only 6 days in and I have 17k hands. It feels great to put in volume. I am making better lay downs, better calls. If I can remove hands like #4 from my play, I will be much better off. I am trying to take note of every time I have a tough situation on a street is almost ALWAYS the result of some miss play. Either improper bet size or I called when i should have raised. The more I look at it the more I think that hand #3 is stupid to continue, even for the tiny bet on turn, unless I am ready to commit on the river, which I can't. Next time i can just 4-bet this preflop and fold to shove. | ||
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| !Luck |
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20.6k hands so far this month so ahead of pace. I still make retarded plays. But I think im pulling out of my rot. I played well for 2k hands today. where everything seemed to work. And my reads where spot on, even if I had a little problem with variance. So far this has been a fun month. I found a little leak this month My C bet flop stats is 58%... that's a tad low considering how tight I am |
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| Dex |
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I play 6max but I hope you don't mind me offering some thoughts regardless. Hand 1 QdQs - Just flat his flop bet. Villain is making one of two mistakes. He's either giving you too easy a time with his bluffs or missing value with too cheap of a route to showdown. Just call flop and don't do anything to narrow his range. Hand 2 KdAc - As played it's not bad, but I'd prefer to call down because raising the turn, however small, is providing villain information that could lead him to fold hands worse than yours. If you flat turn there's about a psb behind on the river, as played it's a little awkward getting to the river with so little behind in comparison to the pot. Definitely think about bet/raise sizing and what kind of pot sizes you are trying to manipulate and why. Hand 3 QcQs - This quote stood out to me. Quote:
Your pf flat was fine, your turn c/c was fine, why not c/c a reasonable river bet? Again, by betting small villain is making two mistakes. Firstly, he's giving you way too easy a time to call down vs bluffs/worse hands. Secondly, he's failing to extract value from you by giving you a cheap route to showdown. This isn't a "I can only call turn if I will call river" spot because he's betting so small on the turn you simply aren't making a mistake by calling. You river block bet is absolutely the wrong size but primarily the wrong idea. It makes you look confused and if I were villain I'd genuinely expect a raise to get you off your hand, you'd lead a king on the turn and a ten bigger on the river. You just look too weak to call. But yeah, river c/c is fine and unless he bets huge turn/river calls just aren't a big mistake, if one at all. Hand 4 AhQc - PF vs a tard is fine. Flatting flop is fine because our hand is too good to fold but not good enough to build the pot more than it will be. You already know about the shove. --- If there's one thing I'd suggest to you based on these four hands, without knowing anything else about your game, is definitely consider c/c as a valid choice. It's not always a race to get the stacks in, and shoving as an answer to being unsure about a villain's range or their actions is going to be a mistake the majority of the time. Sometimes it's best to call, let them make mistakes by failing to extract value or continuing with bluffs or value towning themselves. |
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| !Luck |
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Dex, Thanks for the feedback. I do not consider c/c line often in enough in 3 bet pots. My blocking bet of 3 bucks in hand 3 looks extremely weak. About my #2 hand, I see the point that min raising here I narrow his range quite a bit. As hey may be dumb enough to pay off with a 99 here if I didn't. And he has a lot more Non-AX hands than anything else. So I see your point. But I will have to think about it. Thanks for stopping by. !luck |
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| !Luck |
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| I am frustrated with poker at this moment. Not sure if I can even play 1k hands I need before the end of the day. If i feel like this I will have to take a little break. Why am I frustrated? Cause I am too results oriented. | ||
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| Gobbatino |
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| Hey !Luck. I'm currently playing 25NL - I used to play 6max and made the move to FR at the start of this month. Shoot me a message if you'd be up for some sweat sessions. Good luck, hope you run better. Also, if you have problems with being results oriented, I recommend "The Poker Mindset" - awesome book. | ||
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| !Luck |
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Week 1 Update: Barf. The sad part, I am running 4 buyins ABOVE AIEV. HOLY CRAP RED LINE. Now I know one shouldn't care too much. But obv im doing something wrong here. This has been a very hard week for me. It was so maddening to have such a great start only now to see that I might suck. Or I lost something. Granted part of this maybe that I am exclusively playing 9 tables. But meh. I am going to play 9 tables this week again. Do some studying and try to increase my aggression. Oddly last month my red line was about even. So my game is suffering. only positive is my weight is down to 160.4, but I missed 2 days of working out. Which sucks. So next week I will NOT play any poker until I work out. I am also considering removing all milk and dairy products because despite my old age (26) i refuse to admit that it is fairly likely that I am lactose and intolerant and it well sucks. Considering I drink 2-3 cups of milk a day. Currently my W$WSF is 43% and W$SD is 54.6%. I still don't know how to interupt those numbers. Thanks for keeping up. 
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| !Luck |
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Pooh-Bah: Drift - Micro Stakes Full Ring Games - Micro Stakes Poker Strategy Forum This post on drift really makes sense. I am decent at spotting blatant tilt, I suck at spotting drift. I drifted so much this week. My natural tendency is to be passive aggressive, with in my life I can become sick aggressive. Like the quite guy who only fights when he is drunk. Obv. this happens because I play 9 tables. Have to real give this some thought. I think my goal for this month might be counter productive. |
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| gosam |
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Dropping by to say hi, and I'll be definitely following this since I'm pretty much the same boat as you. I'm currently playing 25NL and hoping to make te transition to 50 by the end of March if all goes well. I also just started working out, got quite a few pounds to drop. So GL, and go exploit those fish! |
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my blog
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| daven |
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-> op, drink yoghurt cos the lactose is gone Quote:
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you know i can't read your ghost sig bro, i've been internalising a really complicated situation in my head
allin, reload, repeat please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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| !Luck |
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Good news. Red line is now positive. Bad news green line is very negative...
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| !Luck |
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-138 2k hands Negative trend. I am giving up on 9 tabling. Will post update later. |
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| Donachello |
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Quote:
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[00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
[00:30] <DC> daven [00:30] <DC> on my hand? [00:30] <daven> yep [00:30] <DC> because I am drunk [00:30] <daven> nice reason [00:30] <daven> no further questions [00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol Problem officer...?
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| !Luck |
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Real update: In some ways I was a total spew monkey last session. My aggression was through the rough. I was double and tripling barreling, which had great affects, but I am still pretty bad at picking spots. After looking at some of my hands I realized that 2-3 of my big losing hands where were I tried to barrel some calling station, instead of giving up early. I suspect today, I will do a better job of picking my spots. |
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| !Luck |
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I will put my opponents on ranges. I will put my opponents on ranges. I will put my opponents on ranges. I will put my opponents on ranges. I will put my opponents on ranges. I will put my opponents on ranges. I will put my opponents on ranges. |
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| Gobbatino |
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| Did you copy paste the last five lines? Because that's cheating. | ||
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| !Luck |
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Do you want me to convert each char to its value then to binary... and type that in.... And yes I did cheat. But funny enough I did write out an entire page by hand of the same thing, there is no copy paste there. 01001001001000000111011101101001011011000110110000 10000001110000011101010111010000100000011011010111 10010010000001101111011100000111000001101111011011 10011001010110111001110100011100110010000001101111 01101110001000000111001001100001011011100110011101 1001010111001100101110 |
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| !Luck |
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| 573 Hand with a multiple table ratio of 4.5. I feel better. Will continue to play few tables until im am out of my funk. | ||
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| eragotte |
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I havent read all of this but just a couple notes on red-line: 1) My natural tendency is to play red-line positive by a long shot, but I win at a much high rate when I let it go negative. I think it is hard to play with a super high red-line at lower limits where you don't see the same people as often and thus do not have as good reads. 2) red-line-aments with like 9 tables is going to be death, if you feel like your aggression is too low try a session of 25nl with like 2 tables and just try to pick only +EV spots for your aggression. I would say you should be trying to fix your red-line a bit, but making it positive is going to be way too big a change in style. |
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| Jason |
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If you want to look at your all-in EV or red line for trivia sake because it's easily accessible, that's fine. If you're interested in improving your game, I strongly advise you don't look @ all-in EV or red lines or at least don't let them affect how you play. Instead, review your sessions and play while you're playing and after you've played. A good poker player should understand why he wins when he wins and why he loses when he loses. If you don't understand, you need to be asking these questions WHILE you play and AFTER you play. This is why excessive multi-tabling is bad. The money is just jumping around. You can barely keep up with the action in front of you let alone take notes, reflect, and get reads. The answers for getting better won't be found in all-in EV or red lines. After you get the money in, it was either done as a good play or a bad play despite whatever flop, turn, or river gets dealt. Whether you win your money @ showdown or not is also not important so as you're maximizing what you earn. |
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- Jason
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| !Luck |
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Jason, I agree with a large part of what you said (multiple tables, AIEV). However, when it comes to red line, I feel like it has been a great tool to judge my game. As I tend to only review hands where I win or lose 50BB or more. Many things that can help me win more money lies in winning tons of 25-35BB pots. Specifically, very controlled aggression, I wouldn't realize my problem if i just looked at where money goes in. I personally find little value in AIEV, as I review those hands anyways and just because you suck out on someone where it was Bottom set vs top set, doesn't make your all in action on the flop bad. Yet sadly, whenever i ran "hot" I would question my decisions. I also know that what is hard for people to keep up with action is different from person to person. When I was teaching my gf to play Play money tables she couldn't keep up with one table. I am not 24 tabling, though I know that when I had "it" in feb, i was fairly good at taking notes and picking up on reads. Then after my shot at 50nl, my game broke down a bit, i refused to drop the tables and the money loss continued. Further, I fully plan on playing 9 tables again once I get the basics down. My point is that you have found things that work for you and many of your thoughts are applicable to me, which is why I appreciate your input here, and likely to the wider poker playing population. But, telling others to ignore red line and just focus on reviewing hands, may not be the most efficient way to improve one's game. The reason I vocally disagree here is because, there might be some 2NL person reading this and thinking that since Jason the 200NL says so it must be true, where I suspect there a many different styles that can lead to success in this game. !luck |
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| speedcake |
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Red line shmedline . if you are playing well and profiting, especially at micros where people are calling stations which prevents your red line from being too awesome, then don't worry. Great idea to just not look at it, take it off your garf for a while. Review it weekly maybe. But if you are focusing too much on it then it is distracting you from improving overall. GLGL! |
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your banner burned here
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| !Luck |
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6 tabled today for another 570 hands. did well. made a few mistakes. Just because i put someone on a range doesn't give me the ri ght to be an idiot. For example, squeezing with 88 is retarded. Thank you !luck |
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| Gobbatino |
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Quote:
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| !Luck |
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Gobbation, Wouldn't it be better to see a cheap flop and then stack them both. Why "waste" the value of your hand? !luck |
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| Gobbatino |
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It might be. With the example I set up, the original raiser who steals would probably fold a huge part of his stealing range while the whale might come along, against whom you have position and are ahead of his range. Definitely a good situation and worth squeezing there. Or they both fold and you scoop up free money. You do definitely have odds to just call here, assuming relative stack size is at least near 80bbs or more vs both villains. But you loose out on a lot of advantages. First of all, the aggro stealer now has the position advantage. Secondly, you have no initiative on the flop unless you donk out, which is definitely an option (that's another topic though). And lastly you are going up against two villains, both with a wide range and on 90% of the flops you will have no idea where you stand. I'm not actually saying squeezing here is better, but it is an option. And actually, my point is much simpler than that: I think any absolute statement like yours is simply not applicable to poker. There are too many variables to consider. It's like saying I'd never raise AJs UTG in FR. My default play is not to raise it but there are situations when I would. Or saying never to limp AA. Also not a default play but depending on the circumstances it might be a much higher EV play than the default. Which all comes down to a few words: adjust to the situation. Food for thought. |
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| !Luck |
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Not to argue semantics, but I would say that I never raise 72o UTG. It is true that you may find a contrived example disapproving that, however, over the long run that is a small leak, just as in this case it is very likely that calling vs squeezing in unique situations is also a leak. But with poker and with most things in life we have to allow some imperfection for efficiency. This, I believe is one of those statements that is about as valid as saying that you never fold KK pre in the micro. Sure there are situation where UTG nit raises, UTG +1 Nit 3-bets MP1 Super nit goes all in. Where I might consider it, but is that really a useful way to spend time an analyzing poker situations? Either way, I appreciate your input. Thanks, !luck |
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| !Luck |
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| Barely playing. Though had some good days, but I am still not happy with the quality of my play. | ||
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| !Luck |
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 W$WSF 48% W$SD 45%... So red line better green line meh. So the question is going on. I am doing a better job of putting people on ranges in small pots, but I completely mess shit up when I have nuts or very strong hand. At this moment. I have nothing left to learn about the game. What I mean by that, is the knowledge within my head is enough to beat this limit. But I am not consistently applying that knowledge. So what will I do next week. I will continue to play a reduced number of tables. I will post more hands to try to ingrain in myself that I am retarded. I need to learn to fold. I need to learn to 3 bet then c/f. I need to stop trying to win every pot. I need to ONLY barrel when I have fold equity and pot equity. I need to tighten up, my VP was 16.75 and my PFR was 13.11 this week, this is mega high compared to my normal. I am running 34/28 out of Bu, 27/23 out of CO, and 15/13 out of HJ. I think I can significantly lower my CO range. also I am way too loose from SB. I have been completing SB with 22-77, I think I will start raising them. Can't quite decide cause a pair is pair. but playing 22 on 79j board sucks. You can't barrel this board at all. Since they are almost never calling with worse and are rarely folding better. Maybe 33-55 and even that requires to barrels vs most opponent but by that time more overs come and you are fighting a battle that shouldn't be fought. I cleared my stellar bonus of 50, but im not cashing it yet. Cause well. I don't feel like it and you can't force me. My Top 5 losers are KK,TT,75s,22,A5o I am trying too hard. I have to realize that against most opponents betting 22 every time they check to me on the flop where the board is 59A, is a bad idea. Especially if there are any flush draws. Now, I don't do it every time but I am just picking bad spots. I also need to stop FPSing, and trying to open Limp AQo in SB, because I am afraid that if I raise the BB will 3 bet me and then I have to fold. So i take the line of limp 3 bet, then 5 bet shove. !luck |
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| Micro2Macro |
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Oh snap, I posted a graph in my blog of my unsexy red line and did not realize you posted this. Filter out hands where you went all in at some point and villain folded and show me for some review. i.e villain bets river you shove he folds |
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