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Operation: Beginner to Master

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spoonitnow

05-18-2010, 08:33 PM

#51 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: IRC Chat Room

Posts: 5,406

xpaand

05-18-2010, 08:47 PM

#52 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Vancouver

Posts: 289

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

What a fabulous post to start a new page with

OP: Beginner to Master

If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".

xpaand

05-18-2010, 09:17 PM

#53 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Vancouver

Posts: 289

After my first long intense session since my return, I’ve come across many questions that I should have known the answers to last year. Anyways, with my ego not being a factor anymore, here goes:

1) Set mining – I realize that it’s very wrong at higher levels to open limp low pp’s, but at low stakes where they don’t really pay attention to that, isn’t it ok? Isn’t it smart as long as I treat it as an adjustment to the players, so it’s not a bad habit I’m forming, but rather a profitable adjustment to $10NL play? Or am I completely wrong to assume that they don’t know I’d only limp low pp’s? (Of course this implies I wouldn't do it if my table at $10NL is adjusted to this play)

2) Blind stealing – This seems important to me for building awareness of bluff profitability and position, but at the lower levels, bluffing shouldn’t be much of a factor in play. Therefore, unless you have a high number of hands on your tracker and the stats justify a steal, you should avoid it in all cases?

3) Subquestion – Is it better to try to steal blinds with marginal hands or trash? Marginal hands can flop decent at times while still being easily foldable to a re-raise. Whereas a trash hand serves the same purpose, but with less flops helping. However, I understand how a trash hand with no value is getting a huge value boost as a mere blind stealer, where the marginal hand isn’t getting as much of a boost.

4) Shoving with AK – Found AK PF play to be a problem area. Not exactly sure when you should shove AKs. Poker Stoving, I found that the highest equity you can get is ~47.8% with the lowest being ~34.1% when heads up against pockets. Against a tight player who will shove 4.5% of his hands PF (AK, AQs, AA-99), my equity is 47.645% and against a looser player who will shove 9.8% of his hands PF (AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, ATs, A9s, KJs, AA-66), my equity is 57.740%. I found that my opponent has to have a PF shoving range of about 5.6% for it to be break even, therefore making it profitable to shove against an opponent who shoves 5.6% or more of his hands PF (even higher if it’s unsuited). However, when in play, how do I determine if he’s shoving 5.6% or more of his hands and is there a better way to think about it than to memorize the profitable range for AK? I mean I couldn’t possibly do that for all starting hands and be able to think of it in 10 seconds or less.

5) One thing that made me cringe really badly was how I sometimes played hands without looking at the villain’s stack size. It wasn’t often, just got caught up in the moment and my cards and clicked the button before analyzing implied odds. (Obviously this isn't a question, just a confession of the worst conscious mistake I made in my session)

6) When would you ever call, rather than raise a PFR? And when would you ever limp into a pot?

*Edit* Also, what's the exact thought process when putting someone on a range? Is it by elimination? How do you translate tracker stats into his range? I have trouble thinking of every hand that is in a villain's range.

JR9477

05-20-2010, 03:38 AM

#54 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2008

Location: Iowa

Posts: 426

JR9477 is an unknown quantity at this point

1)I don't like open limping PP's. You lose out on possibly winning the hand preflop, or getting raised at a later point anyways. If you're at a passive table that allows you to openlimp PP's for set value, are they likely to pay you off?
-I'm more careful about raising PP's preflop if I have known wide 3bettors yet to act

2)I tend to avoid blind stealing until I've determined that the players behind are somewhat tight and are willing to fold. Usually, I slowly widen my stealing range as I get a better idea of their playstyle.

3)Depends on the the players behind.
-Tight players I'll blind steal with marginal hands.
-Nits I'll steal with some trashier hands.

4)I'm not fond of shoving AK pf, unless it's a shortstacker.
If it's profitable to get it in pre with AK, Villain is going to have a pretty high VPIP/PFR/3BET and aggressive too.

5)I setup my HEM to color people's names by stack sizes, bringing my attention immediately to shortstackers
<25bb = Red
<55bb = Yellow
<125bb = Green
>125bb = Blue

6)I won't 3bet if their 3bet calling range crushes my hand. I'll limp in if someone else has in front of me and no one else is likely to raise behind.

(Josh)

HarleyGuy13

05-21-2010, 05:36 PM

#55 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2008

Location: Oregon

Posts: 1,226

xpaand I'll be following you as well my friend. Maybe we can help support each other through our journeys. I really like seeing that you stopped in my lame blug and took the time to post! GOGOGOGOGOGOG

"You start the game with a full pot o’ luck and an empty pot o’ experience...
The object is to fill the pot of experience before you empty the pot of luck."

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

Do you have testicles? If so, learn to bet like it

xpaand

05-22-2010, 04:17 AM

#56 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Vancouver

Posts: 289

LOL np Harley. I don't think your OP is lame, but put some more shit in it if you think it is!

So I decided I'm not going to post hand histories in here, as there's a lot more people who respond in the BC and IRC. I'm gonna treat this OP as more of a journal of my progress and my life with posts of general questions maybe and hands once in a while..

On that note. I've been trying to figure out what kind of laptop to buy and I've been torn between the Macbook Pro and Air. At first I wanted to get the Air, but then I realized how bad the specs were in comparison the Pro. I need performance because I wanna run Parallels Desktop + Windows 7 (it's running the whole Windows OS in a window basically [actually it runs it in a "Space" if you know macs]) to play poker with.

The 13.3" Macbook Pro was the one I decided on at first because I'm not rich enough to justify spending more than $1500 on a laptop. After asking a lot of people and doing some research, I realized that it wasn't worth it to get the higher end 13.3" cause there is no perceivable difference, so if I want one that's better performance wise, I had to move up to the 15". Decided to get the 15" cause I realized I probably won't buy another laptop for a few years and once I start multitabling like crazy, I wouldn't wanna regret not getting the 15".

I had to order it online cause of the higher resolution screen option. I feel like a kid; I haven't been this excited to get something since getting my first nice car back in 2006. Anyways purchase came to $1955 cause of my student discount of $120 or something. Here's what I got coming next week

:

- 15.4" Macbook Pro [2.4GHz Intel Core i5]
- High Resolution Glossy Screen Upgrade [1440x900 to 1680x1050]
- Apple Magic Mouse
- Case

Note: I've had two PC laptops and two Macbooks and I would NEVER consider buying a PC laptop. Some people consider Apple to be overpriced, but I don't at all. I consider it as paying a premium for peace of mind that your computing device isn't going to be a piece of shit.

xpaand

05-25-2010, 04:36 AM

#57 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Vancouver

Posts: 289

Had a very nice session today. Don't know what the results are (although I feel like they were VERY positive), but I was happy with most of my decision making. However, I realized that although I didn't make many conscious mistakes, I am unsure of many spots. After I read this article by ISF, it kinda made sense why I felt so lost at times: The Backwards learning theory of poker

Instead of learning full concepts and applying them, I was finding trouble spots and seeing what the right decisions were (reviewing hands). Obviously reviewing hands isn't bad and should be done anyways, but I think I should be spending a lot more time learning "advanced" concepts and then adjusting to the microstakes.

I feel good. I feel like I'm making a lot of progress in my game and my conscious learning of the game. Yay.

Note: LOL @ the "douche" comments underneath haha

xpaand

05-27-2010, 06:14 PM

#58 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Vancouver

Posts: 289

I got a new acronym to play by at the micro's: VSF. You may guess Very Shady F****** or Vagina Super Fun, but it stands for ValueBet, ShowdownValue and FoldEquity to me.

I just read a great post on 2+2 (Theory (looong): how to beat the micro's (2NL-50NL) - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit - Micro Stakes Poker Forum) on how to beat the micro's; it's kinda dumbed down, but that's how most of the people in the micro's like it I guess.

Point of the whole article is this decision tree:

Can you value bet?
Yes: Value bet
No: Proceed to next q

Do you have any showdown value?
Yes: Check/Fold
No: Proceed to next q

Do you have fold equity?
Yes: VERY RARELY bluff (very dependent on the line taken and the board)
No: Check/Fold

Bluffing should be rarely used as not many people in the micro's can fold many hands. For ex, they have TPTK and there's a straight draw on the board. Villain may not necessarily fold even if you represented a straight from the beginning of the line.

Another problem for a lot of beginners is that they think everyone is bluffing. This is a terrible mentality to have at the micro's (as you will find out if you keep calling these "bluffs"). There is no need really to be trying to win every pot. Just fold if villain reraises on a scary board and you don't have a hand very close to the nuts. Fold and proceed to next hand. Vbet/Vbet/Vshove. Collect. Move on up.

*Edit: I realized this post sounds commanding. This was cause it was kind of me telling myself to stop trying to extract value out of every hand I go into that has any potential. This has been very -EV for me.

xpaand

06-06-2010, 06:58 PM

#59 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Vancouver

Posts: 289

Some of these hands are blatantly obvious, but I wanted to exercise my analysis on cbet/double barrel hands.

Note: ftc = fold to cbet

Everest No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (10 handed) - Everest Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($7.84)
UTG ($9.50)
UTG+1 ($5.79)
UTG+2 ($9.95)
Hero (MP1) ($11.64)
MP2 ($6.05)
MP3 ($10.62) [Stats: 11/7/inf (0/0 ftc) over 46 hands]
CO ($12.48)
Button ($14.36)
SB ($9.90)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 6

, 6

3 folds, Hero bets $0.40, 1 fold, MP3 calls $0.40, 4 folds

Flop: ($0.95) 10

, 9

, 2

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.60, MP3 calls $0.60

Turn: ($2.15) A

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.25, 1 fold

Total pot: $2.15 | Rake: $0.14

Analysis: Villain's calling range from his position is probably [22+,A9s+,KJs+,QJs,JTs,AJo+,KQo]. The only way to be ahead of his range is if we hit a 6. However, at 10NL, I feel that cbetting as a bluff works well so I felt justified to lead out on the flop as the preflop aggressor. After villain calls, the Ad comes which raises our fold equity (as a double barrel here will force most rational villains to fold unless they have TPSK+) and our pot equity is static and remains low. The increase in fold equity though made me feel like I could double barrel this dude and take the pot, which is what happened.

Everest No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (10 handed) - Everest Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+2 ($7.84)
MP1 ($8.80)
MP2 ($5.79)
MP3 ($9.15)
Hero (CO) ($10.74)
Button ($6.65) [21/5/2 (2/3 ftc) over 235 hands]
SB ($9.90)
BB ($12.93)
UTG ($15.01)
UTG+1 ($9.85)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A

, 2

6 folds, Hero bets $0.40, Button calls $0.40, 1 fold, BB calls $0.30

Flop: ($1.25) K

, K

, A

(3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.70, 2 folds

Total pot: $1.25 | Rake: $0.08

Analysis: Here I bet A2o from CO to take advantage of some of the tight PF play going on, but then BU and BB called me. The flop drastically increased flop equity, but not so much pot equity as I had 2 pair but with bottom kicker. A cbet here would surely fold everyone out if they didn't have an A or K, which were only a small part of their range at BU and BB.

Everest No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (10 handed) - Everest Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+2 ($2)
MP1 ($9.45)
MP2 ($8.32)
MP3 ($5.17)
CO ($4.20)
Button ($11.52) [17/7/5 (0/1 ftc) over 104 hands]
Hero (SB) ($9.90)
BB ($11.62)
UTG ($9.54)
UTG+1 ($11.91)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A

, K

7 folds, Button calls $0.10, Hero bets $0.55, 1 fold, Button calls $0.45

Flop: ($1.20) 9

, 2

, 10

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.60, Button calls $0.60

Turn: ($2.40) 8

(2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $2.20, Hero folds

Total pot: $2.40 | Rake: $0.16

Everest No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (10 handed) - Everest Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 ($2.35)
UTG+2 ($9.29)
MP1 ($5.13) [17/11/11 (1/4 ftc) over 157 hands]
MP2 ($10.77)
MP3 ($10.59)
Hero (CO) ($18.20)
Button ($12.95)
SB ($2)
BB ($9.68)
UTG ($2.30)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7

, A

3 folds, MP1 calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero bets $0.40, 3 folds, MP1 calls $0.30

Flop: ($0.95) 9

, K

, J

(2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $0.60, MP1 calls $0.60

Turn: ($2.15) 9

(2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $1, MP1 raises to $4.13 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $4.15 | Rake: $0.26

Analysis: I usually raise PF 4bb + 1bb/limper, which means my raise here should have been 5bb (it wasn't because I either mistyped the amount or because I was an idiot and didn't realize there was a limper). With A7s, I feel like I was slightly behind his range going into the flop. I cbet the flop (despite his 25% fold to cbet since it was such a low sample size) and got called. With the second 9 coming on the turn, I felt that my fold equity increased with my pot equity going down. However, I don't think my fold equity goes down here because the 2nd 9 also makes it unlikely that I have a combo of 9's in my hand (in villain's perspective). The only two hands that I could have with a 9 in them in relation to my stats were A9s, 99 or maybe T9s at the most. Before the turn, the combo's that gives me are 3x4 + 3 + 3x4 = 27, whereas after the turn it's 2x4 + 1 + 2x4 = 17 which cuts it down to almost 2/3. I think it was a bad idea here to double barrel and a check would have been the better play. I just feel like I should cbet when the board gets paired but I don't think that is correct.

Everest No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Everest Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 ($9.72)
MP1 ($21.74)
MP2 ($9.55)
MP3 ($10.90) [57/19/3 (3/5 ftc) over 37 hands]
CO ($14.27)
Button ($9.11)
Hero (SB) ($25.23)
BB ($4.88)
UTG ($1.85)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A

, J

2 folds, MP1 calls $0.10, 1 fold, MP3 calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero bets $0.65, 2 folds, MP3 calls $0.55

Flop: ($1.50) 10

, 6

, 2

(2 players)
Hero bets $1, MP3 calls $1

Turn: ($3.50) 10

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $1.15, Hero folds

Total pot: $3.50 | Rake: $0.22

Analysis: Here I feel the same way about the previous hand (paired board on the turn) although I didn't double barrel this flop because the villain's stats made me think he wasn't able to fold to a double barrel. On the turn, my fold/pot equity both go down I believe.

spoonitnow

06-06-2010, 08:08 PM

#60 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: IRC Chat Room

Posts: 5,406

Hand 1: Seems a little on the marginal side but ok.
Hand 2: Hard to get better hands to call or worse hands to fold here. I think I like checking and trying to get thin value or bluff catch on a later street.
Hand 3: Looks good. What if you had A

instead?
Hand 4: It's hard to think of much he calls with on the flop that he folds on the turn, and your pot equity isn't so good, so seems like a turn check.
Hand 5: Looks good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.

xpaand

06-07-2010, 05:10 AM

#61 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2009

Location: Vancouver

Posts: 289

Everest No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (10 handed) - Everest Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($11.42)
BB ($11.69)
UTG ($5.57)
UTG+1 ($9.95)
UTG+2 ($10.30)
MP1 ($10.36)
Hero (MP2) ($12.65)
MP3 ($5.53)
CO ($11.49)
Button ($10.84)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q

, Q

2 folds, UTG+2 bets $0.35, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.20, 1 fold, CO calls $1.20, 4 folds

Flop: ($2.90) 7

, 6

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.50, CO calls $1.50

Turn: ($5.90) 6

(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $2.95, Hero calls $2.95

River: ($11.80) K

(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $5.84 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $11.80 | Rake: $0.78

Analysis: Not much of a read on this villain 57/17/inf over 6 hands. I cbet the flop cause I thought the fold equity was high due to the paired board and I had decent pot equity with my QQ since a 6 was not in his range calling a 3bet (although that's hard to say at 10NL with no reads on villain). When he called my cbet, his range was still fairly wide with 77, 6x, KK+ being the only hands that beat me. I felt I had enough showdown value on his turn bet to call, but the K on the river felt to me like I was beat as I put him on AK or KK+. I didn't see myself beating enough of his range with the river to call profitably.

Everest No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) - Everest Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($11.87)
BB ($2.26)
UTG ($2.89)
Hero (UTG+1) ($10.54)
MP1 ($12.74)
MP2 ($2.40)
CO ($8.34)
Button ($2.38)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A

, Q

1 fold, Hero bets $0.40, MP1 calls $0.40, 5 folds

Flop: ($0.95) J

, 7

, 3

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.60, MP1 calls $0.60

Turn: ($2.15) 9

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.25, MP1 calls $1.25

River: ($4.65) 9

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $10.49 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $4.65 | Rake: $0.30

Analysis: Villain was 88/38/1 over 8 hands with no other reads. I cbet the dry flop with two overcards; standard. With a 9 on the turn, the board became somewhat straight drawed and so I presumed that the flop equity increased a bit and my pot equity was still decent so I went forward with a double barrel. His call confused me so I checked the river to avoid inflating this oversized pot and he proceeds to shove with the second 9 hitting. With no reads and with an unpaired hand, I saw very little showdown value.

Everest No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (10 handed) - Everest Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP2 ($1.85)
MP3 ($8.88)
CO ($3.80)
Button ($4.95)
SB ($2.60)
BB ($15.53)
UTG ($3.08)
Hero (UTG+1) ($11.62)
UTG+2 ($7)
MP1 ($1.75)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A

, J

1 fold, Hero bets $0.40, UTG+2 calls $0.40, 7 folds

Flop: ($0.95) 10

, 3

, 6

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.60, UTG+2 calls $0.60

Turn: ($2.15) 8

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.20, UTG+2 calls $1.20

River: ($4.55) 5

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 bets $4.80 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $4.55 | Rake: $0.30

Analysis: Villain was 93/26/0 over 27 hands, but his fold to cbet was 4/4. I cbet the dry flop. I double barreled, but I don't think that was the right play given the villain's stats. I felt like he was possibly floating and then I checked the river as I was scared that he might have something. His shove was an instafold for me as his aggression was so little before this hand. After I folded however, he proceeded to show me AKo lol.

Everest No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Everest Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($10.40)
BB ($2.37)
UTG ($5.43)
Hero (UTG+1) ($11.61)
MP1 ($7.24)
MP2 ($25.70)
MP3 ($4.90)
CO ($3.70)
Button ($10.08)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 6

, 6

1 fold, Hero bets $0.40, 2 folds, MP3 calls $0.40, 4 folds

Flop: ($0.95) 10

, 10

, 4

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.60, MP3 calls $0.60

Turn: ($2.15) A

(2 players)
Hero bets $1, MP3 calls $1

River: ($4.15) J

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $2.90 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $4.15 | Rake: $0.26

Analysis: Villain was 27/3/2 over 234 hands. FTC (9/17=53%) and FTDB (1/2). I cbet the flop due to the high fold equity with the paired board and I felt like my hand at that point had decent pot equity. With the A coming on the turn, I felt like it be a good spot to double barrel due to the increase in fold equity being greater than the drop in my pot equity. With his call, I was nervous he had Ax or Tx and his shove on the flop sealed my fate of folding this hand.

Everest No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (10 handed) - Everest Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($3.90)
MP2 ($3.21)
MP3 ($16.56)
CO ($10.71)
Hero (Button) ($10.65)
SB ($8.15)
BB ($14.62)
UTG ($10.79)
UTG+1 ($3.85)
UTG+2 ($7.87)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A

, J

7 folds, Hero bets $0.40, 1 fold, BB calls $0.30

Flop: ($0.85) 9

, A

, 8

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.50, BB calls $0.50

Turn: ($1.85) Q

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1, BB calls $1

River: ($3.85) 8

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2, BB raises to $9.85, Hero calls $6.75 (All-In)

Total pot: $21.35 | Rake: $1.42

Analysis: Villain was 50/14/3 over 28 hands. FTC 1/1 and FTDB 1/1. I played this a lot lighter than usual due to the villain's stats and him calling down light to showdown in a hand before this vs a different player. I basically value bet 3 streets down with TPSK and two pair on the river. The flush and the paired 8 worried me on the river re-raise, but I felt like it could be a bluff or him overvaluing a different hand (AT for ex). I'm not gonna say what he had because I really want people's opinion on this. Am I okay to call down this light even on a river shove just because villain called down light in a couple hands before?

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