No Pokah Here

Move down if you don't think you have the skill, but just make sure you remember to try and move up as soon as possible to keep increasing your skill.

Maybe a bit of time off would help you refocus as well, like 1 week off just doing things you enjoy such as playing sports or watching a TV series you enjoy could really help you get back into poker very refreshed and ready to kill the tables.

You sound a bit tilted and as everyone knows... playing on tilt is horrible. GL with whatever you choose to do.

Dude - I feel your pain. I'm one level behind u... moved from $10 to $25 a few months back. Took the roll up $1K over those two months and was feeling pretty good... Have dumped over $350 over the past two weeks by (in part) losing 17 out of the last 20 stack-offs with > than 75% equity when the $ went in. I def think looking at the HEM graph is worst. So I don't.

But reading your successful trip to $50NL helps keep it real. GL & looking forward to more....

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Looking at my roll, or my HEM graph is a little painful. I feel the "can you actually beat this level" mindset creeping back and I've only been here 6k hands.

Rofl, you're gonna crush 50nl man. First off, stop trying to convince yourself its different. People talk that shit for some reason, I dunno why, self-justification I guess. Very little difference. People will 3-bet slightly more instead of calling when you steal from LP. Thats about it.

Now just dont do my trick and get discouraged by a downswing .

You must of missed my post. That was totally me being discouraged by a downswing.

There is a difference. It's that there are a higher quantity of quality players, and there are players better than anyone I saw at 25NL. However, by continuing to practice good table selection (i.e. avoiding these players) I believe I agree that it's not really that different. Another difference is my current game won't be crushing 50NL, where I felt I was crushing 25NL. THAT is a difference that relates to variance that I may write one day, if after some more experience I feel it is worthwhile.

Originally Posted by xptboy

Maybe a bit of time off would help you refocus as well, like 1 week off just doing things you enjoy such as playing sports or watching a TV series you enjoy could really help you get back into poker very refreshed and ready to kill the tables.

Conveniently, xmas gave me a week off away from thinking about anything besides eating and drinking. Still getting shit on tonight, but have the right mindset about it, but that's

Originally Posted by sar
box68

But reading your successful trip to $50NL helps keep it real. GL & looking forward to more....

Thx & GL. Hoping to start adding something that resembles content here. I agree that thought is shocking...

I was looking at my database again this morning. I'm on a $800 downswing . That's even more amazing because my roll wasn't even $800 in early Nov. So yay that I can lose that much without going busto, but it does make me feel sick to think about. Not really because of what $800 would do IRL (not help much), but because the variance is sick.

This is the 3rd time I've had a 10 BI upswing, followed immediately by a 10 BI downswing. It happened for Omaha, when I restarted HE at 25NLFR, and again here when I moved up to 50NL 6max. I was subconsciously scared of this happening too, especially since I didn't really feel comfortable yet at 50NL.

What's the first thing people say? Small sample size. Ok fine, so I look at some hands. I flopped like god during the upswing, and got turn 2-3 outered at least 4 times during the downswing. lolcashaments. All I can take from this is that I'm currently a 1-2bb/100 winner AT BEST. This leaves no margin for error which is unacceptable with downswings affecting me so much mentally. (honestly thought about quitting again this morning).

I finally have an ok sample size for 25NL. I'm running about 6bb/100 over 40k hands which is pretty shitty for an "lol easy" game. I notice 3x 10 BI downswings in that sample.

What I'm taking from this, is that I need to be able to tolerate a 10 buy-in downswing like it's nothing. Thus, 20 BI isn't good enough for me mentally. I'm going back to 25NL, grinding up ~$400, then will take a 50NL shot again when I get to a $1500 BR.

Such a long hilly road...

Damn dude tough luck. Definitely keep at it (and maybe no more FTR cash games?). I think 50NL is very different than 25NL but you should be able to beat it pretty solidly from knowing your game somewhat. If you ever want to sweat or something over the next few weeks give me a hollaaaa.

Meh, maybe I was lucky with my opponents, or maybe my 25nl game was well suited to 50nl. I really noticed very little difference at all. Downswing sucks, do some serious analysis and work out if its something you're doing wrong, or just variance.

By 50NL being better I mean the regs are better for the most part. You'll probably find nearly the same amount of fish if you play at the right times and some regs are just god awful but there will be some that will finally start thinking about your range as opposed to just his. But I think it's kind of easy to stay one step ahead of them. You'll often find yourself wanting to get 2 levels ahead (at least I do) and end up pwning yourself.

Originally Posted by swiggidy

This is the 3rd time I've had a 10 BI upswing, followed immediately by a 10 BI downswing

Welcome to the club, swiggidy.

I ran away from cash because it was detrimental to my mental health, basically because of this shit. I could not handle it. My ego cannot handle playing bad or running bad and having to take a step down in stakes because of it. It, for lack of better wording, compounds on itself, shrinking your dick to never before seen levels.
So instead, I then went with an ultra-nitty approach, like 200BI or something.

This is also basically why I uninstalled poker tracker etc. It will fuck you up worse, like kicking you when you are already down. It basically serves for satisfying online pissing contests etc. (I MADE MOAR THAN U LAST MONTH) but serves little purpose other than when you watch the next valley, then another peak, then another valley. And remembering you that you got your money in 95% good, but still lost. And again. And again. And soon you will start asking yourself if its even possible to lose so many river 19:1.


You are, and will always be, your own worst enemy at the poker table. Its a cliche, but its goddamn true.

The only spot in my life that I see room for more than marginal improvement is poker. This is kind of depressing, and I think the reason that poker failures get me so down. This is bad because it adds another pressure to a situation that needs time to develop. And also sad because I'm obviously not trying hard enough.

I hope this mini-revelation motivates me some, although I have been doing a lot better with that recently (except for the necessary time off after swings and what not).

I'm kind of feeling down in general do to a couple different life things. One being money and debt, which poker could, should (will?) help with. I'm developing a plan for 2009, and will post details when I'm more awake/less drunk.

K, well I'm back now for 09. Played 2k hands today 4-6 tabling 25NL, so probably about 5 hours. I'm content with that. Finished up 2 buy-ins.

On a buzzed whim I 2 tabled 50NL and won a buy-in over 75 hands, so up $100 on the day. Weeeee.

I got $100 on the bonus, so currently I'm working towards 2k VPP which will be 16k hands. After that many hands I should be up $300ish + the bonus which would put me over $1500. After that I'm taking a serious shot at 50NL again. I've considered moving to FT because I have rakeback that I don't use, but everyone says move back to PS for 100NL, so not sure it's worth it.

After my bitching about the downswing I'd like to add that I'm pretty happy after today. It's nothing special, but I feel extremely confident at the 25NL tables now, so at least I've progressed since June.

Jeesh, it's been 3 weeks :-/

I "started" playing again yesterday. 500 hands the last 2 days, but + 3 buy-ins, lol. You'd think that would encourage me to play more. I was bored and wasn't sure what to do so I played about 200 hands of Omaha. It almost feels like I have no idea what I'm doing. Maybe that's just because I never got paid when I hit (small sample yo).

Should start cranking out hands again this weekend. Also need to download some videos and start watching so I can play with the big boys and make Tebow proud.

I'm getting shit on by the deck today (and make a couple iffy plays). So since I can't get drunk and ignore life for the rest of the evening I decide to look at my stats.

Ok, this is really depressing.

I have 40k hands of 25NL 6max (just considering 4-6 players). 4bb/100. (2ptbb/100). Fuck me.

So obviously there must be big leaks, right? Thing that gets me is my showdown graph goes straight up, and my non-showdown graph goes straight down. So seems like the place to start...

Saw Shodown = FALSE; VPIP = TRUE
7500 hands, 15bb/100

Saw Shodown = FALSE; VPIP = FALSE
30k hands, -20bb/100

Cliff notes: I'm winning in every measurable quantity except folding my blinds. Clearly I'm missing value/spewing on later streets, but this is stupid.

For now I'm going to play FR for awhile. I need 1400 VPP to clear the stars bonus, then I'm shipping my funds to FT and using my rakeback (which would currently double my win-rate) until my roll is well over $2k. Then we'll see.

Non-Showdown winnings is SUCH a hard thing to nail down. Mine tends to head southwards when I start calling PF with speculative hands.

So I was sitting around today, and I realized, ever since I moved to columbus, every single winter has been worse than the winter before it. So that means that every single winter that you see me, that's on the worst winter of my life.

Woah.. that's really messed up.

Damn swigg . Reminds me of Office Space though.

Good luck!!

Did you learn poker yet, fairy boy?

Originally Posted by bigred

Did you learn poker yet, fairy boy?

Tebow says: MY COCK IS WAY BIGGER THAN YOURS!!!

Originally Posted by kingnat

Woah.. that's really messed up.

Originally Posted by kmind

Damn swigg . Reminds me of Office Space though.
Good luck!!

This is a better dual response than I could ever have hoped for.

Originally Posted by bigred

Did you learn poker yet, fairy boy?

No and it's pathetic. I suck at massively multitabling other wise I'd follow in your footsteps.

My goal this year is to make $10k. I haven't broken down how it's going to happen yet, but I'm basically restricted to 10hrs a week average. So $20/hr average (for the year) should be doable (I hope).

Then if I can make $20k in 2010 I'll have reached financial freedom.

Biggest problem is this leaves a lot of time for a girl to fuck everything up.

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Biggest problem is this leaves a lot of time for a girl to fuck everything up.

You're Tim Tebow. The only thing you're fucking is Jesus.

Oh, my biggest advice for multitabling after playing 20 tables for a little under a week is fold. When in doubt, fold.

Hero calls rarely are.

I take off work friday. Have played 3k hands 4-6 tabling 6max over the last day and a half. Am 2 buy-ins after just dropping 3 to 2 awesome beats and 2 coolers. It's nice that I'm not down much seeing as how I have never run this bad before.

This is getting extremely frustrating. Can I please just one fucking time not run like complete shit? I have nothing to do for a whole weekend because my life sucks and I just get shit on over and over. Now I'm 6 buy-ins away from taking a shot at 50NL (started the weekend 2 buy-ins away), failing and re-grinding again. So after tomorrow I'll go back to work, still a continuing poker failure, just for another weekend of getting shit on. I'm so fucking excited about the future.

Here's my Dec/Jan 25NL graph


The worst part about this, is even if you take away the last 4BI downswing, I'm running at 4bb/100 which is my average "winnings". But every time microstake hand discussion comes up I usually play it at least close to optimal. If I had anything else going on in life I would probably quit poker. But I don't so I grind on.

i love swigg

Originally Posted by givememyleg

i love swigg

heh, only took 4 hours this time to calm down and start playing again. Much better IMO.

Went and played live today, here are some hands I was a little curious about:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...69.html#828648

Overall it's a nice mixture of nits and donks.

Started with 15k, and I was up to 45k. Chick sits down at the table, 3rd hand open pushes 77 w/ 6k and blinds at 600. I call with KJo from BTN. Probably meh call, 0eV if I saw the hand. Spike J on flop, she spikes 7 on the turn. This is where it starts to fall apart.

Move tables. I open AA for about 2.75x which is my standard (everyone else was doing 5-6x which I loled at alot). BB min-3bets me, I 2.5x 4bet, he shovels, KK. Spikes K on turn obv. From 40k -> 20k.

One orbit later, I ship 99 after a cronic limper and an M of 5. Dude to my right calls and I think I'm fucked. Flips 77. Flop 7h 5h 3h. I stand up shaking my head. Runner-runner hearts for the split.

Uber stack opens UTG, I ship AKo, he snap calls AKo. Split antes and blinds, which isn't terrible for me. (+1k)

After several ship/folds later (I'm pretty sure most won't fight back without JJ+, AJ+). Dude who owned me with KK calls, flips JJ vs my AK. Obv I brick, gg.

Will def be going back. I should have been 2nd stack overall and they're stupid nitty so I would have raped and pillaged my way to top 3 payout, IMO.

Also realized something today. The reason I tilt at the online games is because I don't have time to process what's going on. I can take one or two buy-in beats and kind of just store them in my head to mull over later. But a third, oh shit. That just overloads my system and I freak out. I'm pretty sure I would be super calm live since I have time to process what's going on.

Took the time to run through your op this morning. There are shades of me in this, particularly in the psychology of your downswings, so it was oddly reassuring. That's probably no consolation to you, of course, but thanks.

^^ glad it helped

Weeeee

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (MP) ($18.30)
CO ($28.50)
Button ($12.20)
SB ($19.30)
BB ($27.50)
UTG ($24.55)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K, A
1 fold, Hero raises $1, 1 fold, Button calls $1, SB calls $0.90, BB raises $5.50, Hero raises $17.30 (All-In), Button calls $11.20 (All-In), SB raises $18.30 (All-In), BB calls $13.55

Flop: ($69.10) K, 6, 5 (4 players, 3 all-in)

Turn: ($69.10) A (4 players, 3 all-in)

River: ($69.10) J (4 players, 3 all-in)

Total pot: $69.10

Results:
Button didn't show
SB had 9, 9 (one pair, nines).
BB had 5, 6 (two pair, sixes and fives).
Hero had K, A (two pair, Aces and Kings).
Outcome: BB won $2, Hero won $64.10

BB is my hero.

Wow, looks like we all wanna be Gus Hansen. Do you usually cap off your stack when you're below a full buy in?

Originally Posted by dev

Wow, looks like we all wanna be Gus Hansen. Do you usually cap off your stack when you're below a full buy in?

Yes. Not religiously, but if it gets below 90bb for sure. I wasn't paying close attention today which probably means I donked away those $6.

stars auto rebuy yo, automatically refill stack when it drops below 100bb

I just cleared that last deposit at PS and moved my monies to FT.

Spent an hour re configuring FT because it hurts my eyes.

Played about 1k hands. Fuck everyone is nitty on that site. Not very impressed (especially for a Sat night). But I made $5 in rakeback, woot!!!

Technically I'm rolled to move up to 50NL, but I'm a nit so I'm going to probably bounce back and forth somewhat. Hopefully keeping the roll moving up while I'm learning.

I was going to also bump my drinking thread, but it's going nowhere so future updates are merged here. I feel this adds to the excitement. "OMG, I'm clicking on Swig's thread. Is it about poker, or alcohol!?!?!? I have no idea."

I would say the time has gone by very fast. (3 weeks, lol)

I've been working out 4+ days a week and played teh pokerz so that's awesome. Think I lost about 4 lbs which is good. I would like to keep this going because I'll be in amazing shape if I keep cutting 5k+ calories/week out of my diet.

Most importantly, I got out of the habit of drinking.

Honestly, I don't really miss it. Which is a little weird because I still love alcohol. Even when I go out and everyone else is drinking I'm not even that sad, so maybe I'll mix in some sober nights even when I do go out. We'll see.

If we hang out and I don't totally represent I take no responsibility. It's every friends fault who got old before I did and stopped supporting my habits. None of them are reading this, but I hope they are all happy with themselves for what they have done.

Until I get good enough at 50NL to offer some continent thoughts I'll just post WTF hands here.

No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($34.45)
SB ($12.10)
BB ($55.45)
MP ($50)
Hero (CO) ($50)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 3, 3
1 fold, Hero raises $2, Button calls $2, SB raises $4.75, BB calls $4.50, Hero raises $13, 1 fold, SB calls $7.10 (All-In), BB calls $10

Flop: ($44.10) 6, 10, 4 (3 players, 1 all-in)
BB checks, Hero bets $35 (All-In) ...

Value -> Isolation -> WTF!?!?!?!
Was about $5 in side pot.

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Fuck everyone is nitty on that site. Not very impressed (especially for a Sat night). But I made $5 in rakeback, woot!!!

Technically I'm rolled to move up to 50NL, but I'm a nit so I'm going to probably bounce back and forth somewhat. Hopefully keeping the roll moving up while I'm learning.

Hey, swig, you ain't kiddin' about nitty. But it's pretty low variance medium profit at 50nl, imo. Hope to see you at my tables soon. Nitty I am not!!

GLGLGLGL

Originally Posted by givememyleg

stars auto rebuy yo, automatically refill stack when it drops below 100bb

WTF when did they add this? My God I am such a donk to have been manually reloading all this time...

Thanks for the heads up GMML!

Swigg, Do you remember anything from when you switched from 10NL to 25NL? (assuming you started that low or w/e). I'm starting to take my shots and looking for all the tips I can get!

Originally Posted by Illfavor

Swigg, Do you remember anything from when you switched from 10NL to 25NL? (assuming you started that low or w/e). I'm starting to take my shots and looking for all the tips I can get!

I never really moved up from 10NL to 25NL. I was playing SnGs forever ago and started playing 25NL when an acceptable BR was $250 (Aug 06 I believe).

I would grind 10NL on Boss sites to clear their bonuses, but the play was LOL bad then.

Basically everything I would help you with is in the most recent (only?) BC thread I made. If you want to IM me it's swiggidy, and I'm in IRC almost always when I am online, there are other people who are happy to help there too.

Dropped 2 buy-ins at 50NL losing flips. Took a break, made dinner. Dropped 2.5 buy-ins at 25NL getting completely coolered on every hand.

400 hands => Done for the night

Shitty night, good quit!

Ouch man. What kind of stats do you have and what stacks do you usually play with?

Originally Posted by Outlaw

Originally Posted by givememyleg

stars auto rebuy yo, automatically refill stack when it drops below 100bb

WTF when did they add this? My God I am such a donk to have been manually reloading all this time...

Thanks for the heads up GMML!

long time ago yo!

Originally Posted by kmind

Ouch man. What kind of stats do you have and what stacks do you usually play with?

At 25NL I was running 21/16.5 (large sample). Tightening up a shade, so running 20/15.8.

3bet 4.5% :-/

AF 3, A% 34

Buy-in for 100BB.

I thought you bought in for like 80bb or something. But alright cool. I wouldn't fret your small 3bet% because you can definitely still be profitable. Yeah maybe adjusting it can make it more profitable but it seems fine. And tightening up is so awesome. Feel good.

Originally Posted by kmind

I thought you bought in for like 80bb or something. But alright cool. I wouldn't fret your small 3bet% because you can definitely still be profitable. Yeah maybe adjusting it can make it more profitable but it seems fine. And tightening up is so awesome. Feel good.

I was until I started gaining confidence in my turn/river game. I started noticing spots where I was losing value by being less than 100bb (where as, at first I was not losing much value).

For some reason you saying tightening up is fun reminded me that I can get rid of my Teboner in a couple days. Weeee!!!!

BUMP!

UPDATES IMO!

Thanks for the bb.

Last weekend I ran like crap at 50NL over another small sample. So I dropped back down to 25NL and grinded some hands.

I was kind of lazy last week, didn't play a lot. Lazy this weekend. Busy this week. Lame I know.

Down 7 BI @ 25NL over 2k hands so far this month (bulk of that the last 2 days). Interestingly, all of the losses are in showdown hands.

The best part is I'm going to Vegas on Wed so it's good that the confidence is high.

Since I accepted 10BI swings happen this is more annoying than super tilting.

This hand explains exactly what's happening:
http://weaktight.com/868242