Luco's beginner to winner

I can handle variance, what really tilts me is when I know I could have played better.

I've been thinking about when a SnG goes HU. Often, there will be a 3:1 or more chip difference so I pokerstoved what calling ranges to use to finish off the short stack.

Assuming shortie is shoving 50% of hands preflop:
50% equity or better = QTs+,K9o+,K8s+,A3o+,Axs,33+
55% equity or better = KQo,KTs+,A8o+,A7s+,66+
60% equity or better = AJo+,ATs+,88+

I love pokerstove. My conclusions from this are if you're the short stack HU, shove pre and shove wide. If you're the biggie, the more of a chip lead you have, the more patient you can be.

I have a lot to learn.

Speaking of patience, I just played my longest STT so far, it took almost an hour and a half and 255 hands. Once it got 4 handed I was stuck with 3 of the tightest, weakest players I've ever faced.

Just stealing once per orbit (average), I was getting enough walks to steadily accumulate chips without ever seeing a flop. I was raising 2.5bb but minraise would prolly have been just as effective. What makes it worse is I wasn't truly stealing that much - I had the sickest run of cards to never see a flop ever, including AA 5 times (one of which made it to the river early in the SnG, the other 4 later just got the blinds).

Villains were great at surviving but horribad at winning, even so it was a real lesson in patience. There were a few spots where I could have called and flipped, but the steals were so super profitable I didn't feel the need to until I'd bullied their stacks down far enough.

Not sure how much time I'll have for poker over the next 8 weeks.

gogogogo

Moar poker and less guitar. Or vice versa.

Thanks guys, I'll try and play less guitar

Been thinking lots about the gap concept and how important it is in tournament poker. Hoping to get time to put my thoughts so far into this thread

Played 4 SnGs over the weekend. 2nd in one, ootm in the others. In all 4 I busted with AK or better aipf so w/e, it's all good.

Hopefully I'll do better tonight, in the interim I was wondering what stats ppl use for their tourney HUD? Mine is very light, just VPIP/PFR/AF/hands so there's probably more I should include.

Notes to self:

- Don't play while high
- Put the villain on a goddamn range
- Selective aggression does not mean unbridled aggression
- Pay attention to the villain's line on every street
- Slow down and think!

Played 3 SnGs last night:
1/ my AA got setmined, villain raised turn after two strong bets from me, I shoved over. Definitely could have gotten away from this one. 9th.
2/ all in on flop with set vs TPGK, villain catches a runner runner full house. Variance. 6th
3/ I came 2nd but not happy with my play. A shitty call down with mid pair was probably the worst hand.

If I can at least learn from this, last night won't have been a total waste of time.

Played 5, won the last 2. Was definitely tilting after the first 3 but noticed it and got my shit together.

A couple of hands from today I wasn't sure on, HUD stats are VPIP/PFR/AF:

PokerStars - $1.29+$0.21|25/50 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: 3,470.00
SB: 1,390.00
BB: 2,983.00
UTG: 1,305.00
UTG+1: 1,310.00
Hero (MP): 1,995.00
CO: 1,047.00

SB posts SB 25.00, BB posts BB 50.00

Pre Flop: (75.00) Hero has J J

fold, fold, Hero raises to 125.00, fold, fold, fold, BB raises to 350.00, hero???

Villain is 11/9/0.7 after 46 hands at this point, he'd 3balled pre twice and one of those was KK but I really wasn't sure here on shoving or folding.


Same guy, next orbit:

PokerStars - $1.29+$0.21|50/100 NL - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

CO: 3,545.00
BTN: 1,365.00
SB: 3,133.00
BB: 1,305.00
UTG: 1,310.00
Hero (UTG+1): 1,795.00
MP: 1,047.00

SB posts SB 50.00, BB posts BB 100.00

Pre Flop: (150.00) Hero has 9 9

fold, Hero raises to 250.00, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to 3,133.00 and is all-in, fold, hero???


And finally, fun with the very first hand at a table:

PokerStars - $1.29+$0.21|10/20 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: 1,500.00
SB: 1,500.00
BB: 1,500.00
UTG: 1,500.00
UTG+1: 1,500.00
MP: 1,500.00
Hero (MP+1): 1,500.00
LP: 1,500.00
CO: 1,500.00

SB posts SB 10.00, BB posts BB 20.00

Pre Flop: (30.00) Hero has A Q

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 80.00, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to 360.00, fold, hero???

What would you do here, readless?

JJ- If you are really loose I think it's a pretty easy shove. If you're tight it might be close BUT I'm under the assumption you have a HUGE edge in these so probably makes it a pretty easy fold.
99-Stats update would be good. Almost definitely a fold although knowing if he was 3bshoving/sm3bing different hands would be nice to know. Has he been 3bing more stealing a lot etc.?
AQo-Easy fold.

edit: If you ever wanna talk sngs or w/e hit me up on skype.

Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet

JJ- If you are really loose I think it's a pretty easy shove. If you're tight it might be close BUT I'm under the assumption you have a HUGE edge in these so probably makes it a pretty easy fold.
99-Stats update would be good. Almost definitely a fold although knowing if he was 3bshoving/sm3bing different hands would be nice to know. Has he been 3bing more stealing a lot etc.?
AQo-Easy fold.

edit: If you ever wanna talk sngs or w/e hit me up on skype.

I can beat most anyone at these stakes when I'm playing my A game, but I'm still making careless mistakes all too often.

The JJ hand I'd been playing tight, I don't really loosen up till the blinds hit 100 or 150. The 99 hand neither of us had VPIP since the JJ hand. By this point I was thinking he was 3betting wider than QQ+ but villain snapshoved so I sighed and folded. Villain never 3bet again after this. I folded all 3 hands above and went on to win fwiw.

Skype sounds good, I'll pm you some time.

I'm also interested in seeing someone else play a SnG from start to finish, if there's some good ones on youtube if someone could point me at them that would be very much appreciated.

Notes to self:
- Plan your hand. What, why, when, how. Consider everything - stack sizes, your image, villain's image, plan for flop, all before you VPIP.
- Raise moar cbets when you think they are weak. Look at your hole cards a little less.
- Play more aggressively when in the blinds, can't pot control OOP.

Also sounds like you are playing slow sngs? You obviously will have a pretty big edge in these but turbos will give a better hourly. I understand that it's micros but even playing like a few sngs a week single tabling I believe it's possible to eventually get to decent stakes(and crush) because of your ability to play every spot almost perfectly as opposed to someone 10+ tabling. Also a lot the early blind levels is everyone folding a lot so your basically waiting to stack a fish or cooler someone.

Thanks for the tip, once I'm happy enough with my game to go for a grind I'll look up the turbos, I like the pace of the 10 minute blinds right now as I'm not super fast at hand reading and ranges yet, although yeah the first 30-40 minutes of them can be dull.

Recently added a second table without any trouble or panic, but not really in it for the money atm.

Been playing well but running bad this weekend. Just running into the top of people's calling ranges, AK not improving, and good old fashioned suckouts have kept me from cashing.

Originally Posted by supa

Moar poker and less guitar. Or vice versa.

vice versa imo

I have love enough for both

Originally Posted by Lucothefish

Notes to self:
- Plan your hand. What, why, when, how. Consider everything - stack sizes, your image, villain's image, plan for flop, all before you VPIP.
- Raise moar cbets when you think they are weak. Look at your hole cards a little less.
- Play more aggressively when in the blinds, can't pot control OOP.

The added emphasis is the Robb-related golden advice - where are my sticky notes?

Ty and gl with the regrind, find them notes

Last night AK wouldn't improve, tonight:

PokerStars - $1.29+$0.21|25/50 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: 1,800.00
SB: 1,495.00
Hero (BB): 1,365.00
UTG: 1,635.00
UTG+1: 1,440.00
MP: 1,980.00
MP+1: 2,155.00
CO: 1,630.00

SB posts SB 25.00, Hero posts BB 50.00

Pre Flop: (75.00) Hero has A K

fold, fold, fold, fold, CO raises to 200.00, fold, fold, Hero raises to 1,365.00 and is all-in, CO calls 1,165.00

Flop: (2755.00, 2 players) A K T

Turn: (2755.00, 2 players) J

River: (2755.00, 2 players) K

Hero shows A K (Full House, Kings full of Aces) (Pre 70%, Flop 99%, Turn 95%)
CO shows 7 A (Two Pair, Aces and Kings) (Pre 30%, Flop 1%, Turn 5%)
Hero wins 2,755.00

Played just two, got 1st and 2nd. Was 78% fave when the chips went in on the second one too. Glad to be cashing again.

Two more today, 3rd and 1st.

Was even in chips going HU vs a half decent but weak villain, started minraising 85% otb. By the time the guy adjusted his stack had dwindled to almost nothing.

Nice.

I've switched to MTTs for a bit.

Played in a $2.50 on friday with ~4.7k entrants, while drinking. Bombed out shortly after I could no longer see what suit my hole cards were - about 900th.

Played a $1.50 27 man on Sat, 1st
Played a $2.50 90 man at the same time, went home early.
Played a $1.50 18 man today, 1st
Played a $1.50 27 man at the same time, 2nd

BR is now $110, going to hit the $3.50 9-45s after a little more practice. Will definitely try the $2.50 90s whenever I have the time free too.

I didn't have time for anything bigger so I played two $3.50 9s and came 9th and 7th. Good start.

Later on I had another hour free so I loaded up two more $3.50 9s and got 1st and 2nd. I'm still looking to play 18-90 mans whenever I can, but will settle for the STTs if time is short.

Definitely staying with the $3.50s, there's a general uplift in skill that I'm enjoying. Having players who can push, challenge and exploit me can only be good for my game. After all, I still suck at poker and have tons to learn.

PS - Villains who flash me their cards are giving away information for free, I will always try to use that info against them. Never, ever show your cards.

Long overdue post on the gap concept:

So you've put the villain on a (goddamn) range, what next?

Picture the villain's range as a line:

Code:

Bottom                      Average                       Top
   |---------------------------|---------------------------|

At one end, we have the bottom of the villain's range. At the other, the top. Roughly speaking, if we want 50% equity or better against a villain's range our hand needs to be 'above average', so our calling range is half of the villain's perceived range. If they are shoving 50%, we call 25%. Simples.

If we are applying our ranges correctly, the actual hand they show up with is irrelevant. If we call with KK against a wide shoving range and they have AA this time, good for them. If you made that call 100 times you'd win far, far more than you lose. Always play a range, not a hand.

Now there are many, many situations where we are happy to call with less than 50% equity, thanks to our friends Mr Pot Odds and Miss Implied Odds, but more on those later (maybe). What I actually want to discuss is how the gap concept applies in tournaments.

Firstly, there is chip utility. Your ability to survive and win depends on you having a stack in front of you. No chips, no win. When a villain shoves into you and you are likely a 50/50 flip vs their range, are you willing to risk your tournament life on a coinflip?
Do they have your stack covered, or could you call and still be left with a playable stack if you lose?
are you ITM or on the bubble?
can you afford to wait for a better spot, or has the time come to double up or go home?
I'm still developing in this area.

Second, fold equity. You generally have approximately 1.2fucktons of FE when you raise or reraise in tournaments (ymmv), you have zero FE when you call. There is no chance of winning without showdown when deciding to call a shove or not, your only hope is to have the best hand by the river. Winning without showdown is huge, because it leaves nothing to chance.

I don't know if I explained myself very well, but basically if you're calling a raise (especially a shove), you need a much, much stronger hand than one you'd happily open yourself.

Comments & corrections welcome.

I love the $3.50s.

I stand by my earlier comment about a general uplift in skill, but at the same time I've still got loads of edge and players are still totally exploitable. The feeling you get when you play the shit out of someone postflop is just awesome.

Getting it in good, dollars will follow.

Originally Posted by Lucothefish

Getting it in good, dollars will follow.

Will be following along, wishing you well.

Originally Posted by Robb

Will be following along, wishing you well.

Thanks Robb

BR is currently $122, played a few 18 & 27s this weekend.

Two spots where I felt a little unsure tonight:

Villain here is 31/5/1.8 over 65 hands. 6 left, top 4 pay. This guy is often aggressive on the flop.

PokerStars - $3.11+$0.39|150/300 NL - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

MP: 3,029.00
CO: 3,920.00
BTN: 1,346.00
SB: 7,679.00
Hero (BB): 5,060.00
UTG: 5,966.00

MP posts ante 25.00, CO posts ante 25.00, BTN posts ante 25.00, SB posts ante 25.00, Hero posts ante 25.00, UTG posts ante 25.00, SB posts SB 150.00, Hero posts BB 300.00

Pre Flop: (600.00) Hero has 7 7

fold, MP raises to 900.00, fold, fold, fold, hero???

And this one, a few hands into the FT and I'm looking for a spot to get it all in. The SB was moved there 5 hands ago. He raised from utg and got the blinds, no other info at all.

PokerStars - $3.11+$0.39|50/100 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

MP: 3,633.00
MP+1: 1,910.00
CO: 7,821.00
BTN: 3,976.00
SB: 4,355.00
Hero (BB): 1,110.00
UTG: 2,615.00
UTG+1: 1,580.00

SB posts SB 50.00, Hero posts BB 100.00

Pre Flop: (150.00) Hero has A J

fold, fold, fold, fold, CO raises to 250.00, fold, SB raises to 1,000.00, Hero???

I was ready to snapshove till the 3bet.

Note: I never actually snapshove, it's an awful timing tell that far too many people give away. No matter how sure you are, always pause for a second or two before you act.

Played 4, won 2. BR is now $136

No hands to report, I'll only post where either I was unsure of the best play, or to illustrate something I've learned. I'll post neither epic wins nor sigh fails.

My SnG edge in 10 points:
- how huge the gap concept is
- exploiting villain tendencies (a.k.a. PAY ATTENTION)
- ranges
- playing in position
- how stack sizes affect your play
- switching gears
- stealing
- short handed, bubble and HU play
- defending your blinds
- playing super tight in early game

Some of these I'm ok at, others not so much. But at least some understanding of every one is necessary I think.

I'm still a beginner - less than 100 tourneys on stars so far this year, so I'm no expert. Just my own observations so far.

I think hand 1 is likely a shove. In my own personal experience big raises with a stack of this size is generally something they don't want to raise/fold like KJo or some shit. You'll almost never see a bigger pair here and we're obviously happy to flip with all the dead money. Although he could be just a fish who 3x's all the time no matter what and we may be crushed but I don't know if we have that read so I'd rather go with my general read here.

On second thought we probably a have a huge edge in one of these things and are never doing better then flipping. There is a lot of dead money though because of the antes etc. Also we can comfortably make the money without gambling here although I don't think ICM tax is as big of a deal in 18 mans as 9ms so it might be a gamble anyway.

So now your probably thinking what the fuck do I do and my short answer is I don't know.

Hand 2 is a fold definitely without a further read. I assume 3.50s are super passive in general so that is the read we have to go with. That on the top of the fact CO could still have a hand himself makes this an easy fold.

Originally Posted by Icanhastreebet

So now your probably thinking what the fuck do I do and my short answer is I don't know.

^^^ + 1, and discount my opinion as I'm not MTT/SnG specialist, but I would lean towards shoveling. But, yeah, glad other folks have trouble with this spot, too.

Originally Posted by Robb

^^^ + 1, and discount my opinion as I'm not MTT/SnG specialist, but I would lean towards shoveling. But, yeah, glad other folks have trouble with this spot, too.

I'd base my decision off of how bad the other players are. If there's 2-3 really bad players or we have a nit or two on our direct left. This becomes a fold pretty quickly IMO. If the players on your left won't let you steal(even if they are like just slightly loosish passive fish) and the field is "tough" in general that leans it more towards a shove too. If this were a 15$+ donkament(people sort of have a clue) I think it's for a sure a shove but since it's a 3.50 the value we gain from future hands makes me lean slightly towards fold.

I should have mentioned these things in my previous posts as it's SUPER SUPER important to consider the rest of the field. The easiest example I can think of is when I grind in the day time my results are a lot more 1st place heavy because the competition is generally nittier then me so I pick up a tonne of pots early on then run the table over or w/e on the bubble to cement my chip lead.

When I grind early in the morning or late or night though I get a lot more 2nds because I have to let everyone bust each other since there's so many more loose players/and even some good aggro 100s regs who you can't chip up well versus as opposed to the weaker 30s regs.

So basically even though I'm playing the same stake/game it's really a COMPLETELY different game and you should go into EVERY sng(spot also) with the attitude that you may have to change your normal strategy completely to maximize your ROI.

Thanks tree (can I call you tree?), as always your contributions are welcome.

Hand 1: the two things that made me slow down were the low PFR stat (he preferred limping in then betting flops) and being so close to the money. IIRC this was a standard raise for him, but he didn't make them often and it came out semi fast.

Shovel: The fact that I still have some play left if I lose is a plus, I take it down preflop a fair % and I have decent equity if called.
Fold: I have edge, can make money without showdown, could fold itm from here, it was his first raise in a while.

I was thinking for so long on it that I timed out, hence the mark for review. Perhaps I'll put it to the tourney forum...


Hand 2: only the lagfish 3bet light and it's usually super obvious that they are doing it, but it still takes an orbit or two to figure out. They are a minority at the $3.50s. Unfortunately CO folded too so I never saw what SB had.

P.S. Robb, I welcome all comments itt

I'm also far more likely to fold if I'm stealing / raising profitably, if there's aggressive players to my left I just have to pick a spot and cross my fingers. In the hand in question, the two to my left were giving up the blinds a decent amount (the villain from the hand is BB when I'm OTB). From reading your last post I see we have very similar adaptive play and thoughts, so hopefully that means I'm on the right track

Played 4, 4th, 3rd, 4th, 3rd. My first losing session in a while.

I had AQ < KK on two tables within seconds of each other, which would have been hilarious if I hadn't bubbled on one of them. Even so I definitely played less than optimally and paid for it.

I have non-poker stuff that needs my attention, so I'm taking a break till the weekend and will return with my A game on Friday.

Originally Posted by Lucothefish

I ... will return with my A game on Friday.

^^^ this + enjoy life

Bit of a meh weekend. BR is about $125 right now, haven't had a 1st in a while. But I feel like I'm getting to know the $3.50s a little more every time I play, improving little by little.

I have over 100 pt3 tracked tournaments in 2012. Ran at 33.5% ROI in the first hundred, hope I can maintain that for the next 100...

Originally Posted by Lucothefish

Bit of a meh weekend. BR is about $125 right now, haven't had a 1st in a while.

Stay strong, you'll get there. GL!

Thanks Robb, I wish you some much deserved rungood

I recently ran deep and made the FT of a $3 MTT for a cool $50, my biggest single tournament cash to date.

nh amigo

ty sir

The 3bet is underused at these stakes. People don't defend their blinds enough, and fold to 3bet % is usually huge.

In the MTT mentioned I had a BvB hand where the SB flashed and folded AQo to my 3bet. I had 75o.

Well it's been a crazy few weeks but I'm finally back at the tables, yay!

Played 2, got 3rd and 1st. Hoping to get some srs volume in July.

Still haven't got masses of table time, but it's definitely good to be back.

One or two hands aside I'm happy with my play, I'll move up to the $7s when my roll hits $210, currently ~$188.

As I get more games in I'll add more hands + thoughts.

Played 4 since my last post, up a BI.


Here's a hand:

PokerStars - $3.11+$0.39|50/100 NL - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (CO): 1,655.00
BTN: 2,401.00
SB: 3,257.00
BB: 1,902.00
UTG: 1,690.00
MP: 2,595.00

SB posts SB 50.00, BB posts BB 100.00

Pre Flop: (150.00) Hero has 8 8

fold, fold, Hero raises to 250.00, fold, fold, BB calls 150.00

Flop: (550.00, 2 players) T 4 5
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (550.00, 2 players) K
BB checks, Hero checks

River: (550.00, 2 players) 8
BB bets 500.00, Hero calls 500.00

Villain was 39/4/0.8 over 51 hands. I had the general impression he was fit-or-fold post flop. He spent more time chatting than playing. I'd been tight up to this point, running at 12/12.

Line check?

I really want to raise that river, but I don't think you can. NH.

Thanks bjs

My personal life is totally getting in the way of poker at the moment with no relief in sight. Expect this blog to slow even more, if that's possible. Sorry.

Bump.

Well after several years of educational grind I now have my life back for good. Looking forward to playing moar poker again, gotta drag myself away from Batman: Arkham City though.

My BR was about $190 when I last posted, I think it's about $270 now thanks to an mtt cash in Nov. Going to have a look at the £7 stt's and get grinding

I've played 5 games at the $7 level now, no monies so far. Not a huge difference between stakes, just shaking off the rust at the moment

Why you don't play knockout tournaments or knockout sit&go, you can win bounty for every player you knockout, or also you can try on tournaments with one rebuy and one add-on.
In wich poker room you play?

You are telling that you made a good money last months, I play on PokerStars and FullTilt, but it's not easy to make some good money. Do you read some poker books or poker strategy, or you play only of your expirience?

Luco's made 1572 posts in 3 years 9 months in a poker strategy based forum (50% in the commune which don't count lol) in half that time you have managed 10 posts including 2 in this thread. You ask if he has read any strategy. He's got involved in strat discussion and benefitted as a result.

Quick caveat - I've only played about 200 tournaments in 2012 so the sample size is meaningless, I could easily just be lucky. Having said that I'm pleased with my progress this year (watch for my graph next week) so draw from that what you will. I play on pokerstars.

I’ve dabbled in knockouts, rebuys etc and will do so again. But not yet.

I owe a lot to FTR and Keith is spot on, get stuck in and you'll learn fast. I've also read just about every tournament article in the strategy section here. The only book I've read cover to cover is Sklansky's Theory of Poker. I'm currently reading it again and plan to read a lot more books in 2013.

Dedicate yourself to improving, the money should follow. Study hard, review all sessions, post hands and listen to the answers. You get out what you put in.