Grind Time

What's up donks? I've decided to make wanna these yolks to track my progress, post HH's, and talk strat etc. I'm gonna be 4 tabling 5nl for at least two hours a day for the next few months and I plan on posting at least one hand a day as well to help develop my game.

There is no finish line as such with this thread, all I wanna do is improve my game and move up the stakes. I'd be over the moon if I could beat .10/.25 or .25/.50

Starting BR: $267.44

Moving up to 10nl as soon as I hit $300.

Graph:



Current stats:



Today's sessions:







Let's get this road on the show!

Good luck with the grind!

Post some hands.

Here's a hand I played earlier vs a total fish.

Poker Stars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (4 handed) - Poker Stars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com/

Button ($5.36)
SB ($7.20)
Hero (BB) ($19.95)
UTG ($5.45)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 10, K
2 folds, SB raises $0.18, Hero calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.40) Q, J, 8 (2 players)
SB bets $0.25, Hero raises $0.65, SB calls $0.40

Turn: ($1.70) 4 (2 players)
SB bets $0.95, Hero calls $0.95

River: ($3.60) Q (2 players)
SB bets $4.25, Hero calls $4.25


Villain's stats - 41/35/75/68/20.9/80/50 - 107 hands

Layout - vpip/pfr/steal%/Fsteal%/3bet/cbet/fold to cbet


I decided to raise the flop due to his 80% cbet stat, I'd seen him bet flops with pure air. Do you think it would be better to just call and raise when we hit? As played I think turn is an easy call, what about raising the river to get his last $1 and change? I was kind of unsettled by the overbet so I just decided to call. It's kind of tough to make a sensible range estimate for this dude on the river as he was playing a lot of hands. I don't think I can fold there though.

Cant see a full or a better flush. Guess youre good 90%. Raise AI river

I think you played the hand fine. River is close between call or raise. I'd probably call given he overbet. If he bet normally, I might be tempted to shove.

Given his overbet, I would expect to see nut flush, boat or random air.

Poker Stars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (4 handed) - Poker Stars Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

Hero (BB) ($5.53)
UTG ($5)
Button ($2.98)
SB ($5)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, A
2 folds, SB raises $0.10, Hero calls $0.07

Flop: ($0.24) J, 3, J (2 players)
SB bets $0.11, Hero raises $0.40, SB calls $0.29

Turn: ($1.04) 2 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($1.04) 10 (2 players)
SB bets $0.75, Hero folds

Villain's stats over 16 hands - 23/23/25/100/33.3/100/0

Layout - vpip/pfr/steal%/Fsteal%/3bet/cbet/fold to cbet

Embarrassing fold. AJ is literally the top of my range because I'm never checking a flush on the turn. I feel like checking the turn was a mistake as well. Probably shoulda bet turn and checked river.

Anyway it was a good day, +$21.08 over two 1 hour sessions. Might play another hour later, not sure though. Only need another $12 to move up and 20vpps for a $10 bonus.

Originally Posted by griffey24

I think you played the hand fine. River is close between call or raise. I'd probably call given he overbet. If he bet normally, I might be tempted to shove.

Given his overbet, I would expect to see nut flush, boat or random air.

Hero raised flop. You think villain b/c w/ AJhh+A9hh? Other nut flushes make no dense to get on river
May Be wrong but vast majority of 5nl will not just call that flop w/ 2pair+.

Poker Stars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (5 handed) - Poker Stars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com/

SB ($6.83)
BB ($6.46)
UTG ($10.31)
MP ($5.20)
Hero (Button) ($11.92)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 10, 10
UTG raises $0.10, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.10, SB raises $0.43, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.35

Flop: ($1.05) 5, 8, J (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.65, SB raises $1.50, Hero calls $0.85

Turn: ($4.05) Q (2 players)
SB bets $2.10, Hero folds


Villain's stats over 92 hands - 22/17/28/73/10.5/0/-

Layout - vpip/pfr/steal%/Fsteal%/3bet/cbet/fold to cbet

Reads - Villain has been squeezing a lot when there has been a raise and a call or two calls. Haven't seen a showdown in any of these pots though so I don't have any idea what types of hands he's squeezing with.

Obvious call preflop. I don't have any reason to believe he's going check top pair or better here on a wet flop. His c/r makes me think his range is draw heavy with other random air. Anybody folding the flop?

Poker Stars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Poker Stars Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

BB ($5.09)
UTG ($1.03)
MP ($5.05)
Hero (CO) ($12.84)
Button ($5.92)
SB ($8.42)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9, K
2 folds, Hero raises $0.20, 1 fold, SB calls $0.18, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.45) 8, 5, 8 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.20, SB raises $0.60, Hero raises $1.10, 1 fold

A little gem from yesterday.

Villain was running 22/19/33/50/18.8/33/0 over 69 hands.

Layout - vpip/pfr/steal%/Fsteal%/3bet/cbet/fold to cbet

Didn't think there were many 8's in this guy's range at all and I doubt he would raise them with 100% frequency on such a dry board. I thought he had a lotta missed broadways possibly some PP's as well. Seemed like a good spot to raise with a weak range here. Thoughts?

Do you have a 3b value range here? How would you have played villain's C/R here with 8x, 55, or 99+?

Honestly, I don't think I need one. I'm not trying to play balanced or anywhere near it, I'm trying to exploit this guy's weak-ass raising range. In my opinion villain isn't raising here to balance his value range, he has just whiffed the flop with overs and decided to semi-bluff the flop because he doesn't want to call. Why would I want to raise any of my value hands into such a weak range? It would be a lot more profitable to call and let him bet again, whilst 3betting a weak range on the flop to get value from his folds as well. His range is so unbalanced here it makes him super exploitable. At least that's the way I see it.

Big sizing for CO. Dies r/f enough to make IT profitable? Turn is K and he donks, your play? Turn K, he check, your line?

Defo profitable. I doubt he's ever calling here, especially since this is the first time I have raised him. If I made him fold a few more times in similar spots he might start calling me down. Imo, I'm never seeing a turn card here.

Too big assumption for such a small sample. This villain limes more to raise pots rather then calling them (22/19) and he bets where he has IT (33%cbet) making me think he aint c/r Air here. That for me means that your value range bere is losing money by 3betting flop w/ 8x/JJ+ and If stick w/Air 3b he'll soon eexploit IT. May Be wrong for 5, but jigher is a "?". I am not a fan of high freqvency of this line w/Air.

Originally Posted by seven-deuce

Honestly, I don't think I need one. I'm not trying to play balanced or anywhere near it, I'm trying to exploit this guy's weak-ass raising range. In my opinion villain isn't raising here to balance his value range, he has just whiffed the flop with overs and decided to semi-bluff the flop because he doesn't want to call. Why would I want to raise any of my value hands into such a weak range? It would be a lot more profitable to call and let him bet again, whilst 3betting a weak range on the flop to get value from his folds as well. His range is so unbalanced here it makes him super exploitable. At least that's the way I see it.

This is totally fine for the situation. And also, your exploitative thought process is good and you understand how ranges interact on this board. However, be careful not to use this as an excuse to ignore working out what a good solid range would look like here and what hands you would choose to bluff in accordance with those you are raising for value.

Eventually you'll have to work this out otherwise you'll get destroyed playing against good players, so those that can get a good feel for balanced ranges early will progress faster. Another benefit to working out balanced strategies is when you begin to get to know them, you start spotting people's leaks faster because you train yourself to recognize what solid play is.

FWIW in this spot, without using any software, I think range vs range each player is close in equity on 882 blind vs blind but I could be wrong. People open and defend such different ranges its hard to make too general of a statement here. In these games I'm guessing regs don't defend more than 50%? Reason I ask is at higher levels this used to be the case but now defending 65-85% of hands is the norm, so against that sort of defence the BB will have quite a few more total 8x combos, though proportionately, it may be the same since other 7x or Tx hands will be defended as well.

Cool, it's good to know I'm thinking along the right lines. I have no idea how often regs defend on average.

When am I going to start encountering the solid players 25NL 50NL? The only reason I do no work away from the table is because I dunno how to study the game. I understand balanced ranges and exploitative poker on a conceptual level, but being able to work out a perfectly balanced range on any street other than the river eludes me.

On a more positive note been getting in decent volume. The last two days I've played 5370 hands. Not much profit to show for it though.






Defo need to get a comfier chair, my ass is as flat as a pancake.

With regards to studying away from the table. A lot of GTO analysis comes down to studying hand combinations.

So as a very general example. Villain opens pre and you defend 10% of your range.
10% of 1326 total possible combos is ~130 (rounding from 132 for simple math purposes)
If villain bets pot on the flop, he's risking 1 for 1, so his bet needs to work 50% of the time. This means you need to defend (call or raise) with 50% of your range.
Flop defending range = 130*50% = 65 combos
Turn villain bets pot, you need to defend another 50% = 32 combos (approx)
River villain bets pot, you need to defend another 50% = 16 combos.

The defense percent won't be 50% by street, it will probably be closer to 60% because most villains will bet around 2/3 pot. But the method is the same.

Once you know how many combos you need to defend by street, you need to look at your starting range (130 combos) and break that down by street into the appropriate number of hands that will be continuing/defending.

It's a process that takes a lot of time, but after doing this exercise on different board combinations (Axx, Kxx, QJ9, 722 rainbow/twotone etc) you'll start to develop patterns of types of hands that need to call down to defend appropriately. You'll notice boards where it's easy to defend appropriately and boards where it's hard, and you can exploit this fact in villains ranges.

Sorry for the long rant!

Thanks a million for the advice Griffey. I'm on it like a car bonnet.

I've got a question though. Assuming 100bb stacks so there isn't ridiculous depth to the strategy. On the turn in your example villain bets pot and we have to defend 32 combos, we can defend by calling or raising. So if we have a raise/fold range does that count as defending? Probably a stupid question.

Another thing, since there is another betting street to come do we need to be defending 50% to potsized bets, or does this not matter since we're looking at GTO strategies vs an unkown? Like obviously if we had a read that villain bets a weak range when he bets pot we can increase our EV by continuing less than 50% with a stronger range.

I think I'm overcomplicating things, since you're only going to be playing as close to GTO as possible vs unknowns, and then once you spot a leak you can deviate to exploit it.

Sorry for my disorganized rant!

You can pretty much look at it this way.

Any time villain puts money into the pot, he's risking some money to claim the pot. Based on the amount he's risking relative to the pot, his bet has to work a certain % of the time. This % is directly correlated to the % of time you need to continue/defend etc.

So villain pets Pot (P). His bet has to work P/(P+P) = 1/2 = 50%.
So hero must continue 1-50% of the time or 50%

Villain bets (2/3)P. His bet has to work (2/3)P/((2/3)P+P) = (2/3)P/(5/3)P = 2/5 = 40%
So hero must continue 1-40% of the time, or 60%.

The above are in the scenario where villain bets into the pot.

Now your example. 100 effective. Let's say pot is 30. Villain bets 20. Hero raises to 40. Villain goes all-in for 85 total.
In this case, after you raise the pot size is: 30+20+40 = 90. Villain goes all-in for 85 total (but he already bet 20, so he's putting in another 65). So villain is risking 65 for a pot of 90.
Villains bet needs to work = 65/(65+90) = 38.7%
Hero needs to continue 62.3% of the time.

So in this example, you need to continue with 62.3% of your turn raising range, to prevent villain from being able to profitably shove all-in any two cards.

With regards to your - another street to come. All that matters is that on this street, villain is risking P for P, so if we don't continue 50% of the time then he can bet any two cards profitably on the turn. If you have a read that villain bets pot weakly, and thus call more than 50%, that's fine. But at that point you're not playing GTO and you're exploiting villains tendency to bet pot with a weak range.

There's a good series of GTO articles here that helped me a lot when learning preflop GTO stuff.

http://en.donkr.com/Articles/optimal...x---part-1-329

What about if you're the aggressor, how do you know how to play GTO then?

As the aggressor, you know that based on your sizing you need villain to continue or fold X% of time. If you're bluffing pot size bet, then you're doing so because you think villain will fold more than 50% of his range now or he fold less than 50% now but will fold more than GTO on a later street.

On the river, based on your bet sizing villain will bet getting pot odds on a call. If you bet pot, villain will be getting 2:1 on a call, such that he has to be good 33%. So your range should be constructed such that the worst hand in villains calling range is indifferent to calling or folding (ie: has 33% vs your betting range).

If you read that article, it should clear stuff up too.

Originally Posted by seven-deuce

Here's a hand I played earlier vs a total fish.

Poker Stars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (4 handed) - Poker Stars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com/

Button ($5.36)
SB ($7.20)
Hero (BB) ($19.95)
UTG ($5.45)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 10, K
2 folds, SB raises $0.18, Hero calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.40) Q, J, 8 (2 players)
SB bets $0.25, Hero raises $0.65, SB calls $0.40

Turn: ($1.70) 4 (2 players)
SB bets $0.95, Hero calls $0.95

River: ($3.60) Q (2 players)
SB bets $4.25, Hero calls $4.25


Villain's stats - 41/35/75/68/20.9/80/50 - 107 hands

Layout - vpip/pfr/steal%/Fsteal%/3bet/cbet/fold to cbet

I think preflop is a wondrous spot to discuss how we play our range as a whole. Villain is likely opening almost ATC here, but luckily, given his sizing and the quirks of the 5nl blind structure, we only *need* to play 38.9% of the time, though we should obviously play as wide as we get away with.

Since this particular player is just so non-stop aggro in every way conceivable (I'm willing to bet he 4bs a lot more than he flats 3bs), we should play our range very linearly. That might sound ldo, but if villain had a cbet of 50%, let's say, it would change everything. Since villain probably cbets more than 50% of ATC in this spot we want to make it to the flop with a very strong range so that we can not only call often, but also raise plausibly with a good mix of overpairs, TPGK, elite draws along with the usual set and two-pair binks. *This* in turn, means we're going to be flatting preflop with a lot of hands that we would otherwise 3b for value. *This* in turn, means that we can't 3b a whole lot of uncallable garbage before we start to get ourselves in trouble. It also means that we can't flat preflop with hands that can't stand a lot of heat and rely on simply outplaying him, even though he has a massive range, we're deep, and we're IP.

We can probably still flat with 87o, A6o and any two cards 8 or higher, but 53s and Q2s won't flop well enough often enough to warrant a call, and our 3b range is too thin at the top to 3b more than just the very best of our uncallable hands/blockers.

Anyway, I say all that because if it weren't for the fact that we're trying to make our flop range as strong as possible so that we can raise a lot of flops and call down two+ streets a lot, then I would be inclined to 3b KTs against this type of player this deep.

As played, woohoo, we got the perfect hand to raise a flop with (or call flop and raise a turn with if he's as aggro on turns as he is everywhere else). I would raise flop quite a bit bigger, though. Not only does it set stacks up much better for when you hit (especially important since you don't have the NFD), but it makes villain much more likely to flat flop/check turn. We're also not super interested in firing multiple barrels at this player IP, so we might as well get our bullet's worth on the flop and not give him any reason to think he's priced in to peel one.

As played, shove river. Someone playing this aggro is going to think any trips is the nuts, especially bvb. This is not your type of player who's gonna get down on their luck because a 3rd heart came; this is the type of player who once he trips up, figures he finally got that hand that's gonna get him paid after everyone has thought he's so full of shit all the time.

So this happened.







Needa step my game up big style! Back at 5nl going to practice playing two tables at 5nl and working on my thought process, trying to improve at ranges etc. Also going to post some hand histories in this thread. I would like to hear what you think of my analyses and if there is a better way to do it. I'll post a HH or two tomorrow after a session.

Poker Stars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (4 handed) - Poker Stars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com/

Button ($5.87)
Hero (SB) ($8.18)
BB ($2.56)
UTG ($5.17)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, 3
UTG raises $0.15, 1 fold, Hero raises $0.43, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.30

Flop: ($0.95) A, Q, 3 (2 players)
Hero ??

Hand history from yesterday can't remember any specific reads. Villain's stats - 29/26/60/67/0/0/- over 36 hands.

HUD layout - vpip/pfr/steal%/Fsteal%/3bet/cbet/fold to cbet

So I've decided to give villains slightly stronger ranges than I think they actually had when I'm reviewing hands for two reasons. 1) It makes the ranges easier to work with. And, 2) if I have 50% equity vs a stronger range than villain actually has then I can be sure it's a +EV value bet if I add in a few of the weaker hands.

Back to the HH.

My preflop 3betting range is: QQ+,AKs,A5s-A2s,AKo

Villain's flop continuing range: QQ,ATs+,KJs,ATo+

So I worked out all of my +EV value bets. Here they are in order of strength according to their flop equity.

AA
QQ
AK
A3s

It's weird that vs villain's continuing range AKs has ~62% equity, AK has 59% and A3s only has 54%. One-pair has more equity than two-pair.

Anyway that leaves my checking range looking like this:

A5s
A4s
A2s
KK

If I check, I expect villain to bet a range of: QQ,AJs+,KJs-KTs,AJo+

A5s my strongest checking hand only has 35% equity vs that range, whereas A3s has 53%. I think betting A3s on the flop leaves my checking range too weak and villain can happily bet AJ AK unimproved for three streets. I don't have any reason to think this guy is going to be attacking my checking range here in a 3bet pot, so it's not really an exploitative adjustment, I just think A3s is going to win me more money in my checking range than in my betting range.


What do you guys think?

I don't love the 3-bet pre, vs what we can reasonably conclude is a strong range UTG. Your sample size is small, but even a 29/26 can be tight EP and looser LP.

As played, barrel ofcourse. You'll lose to AQ/QQ sometimes, but that's the risk you run into playing hands that can be dominated (and even dominated when flopping two pair).

Poker Stars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - Poker Stars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com/

Hero (CO) ($5.79)
Button ($5.20)
SB ($5.53)
BB ($5.26)
UTG ($14.33)
MP ($4.80)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A, 5
2 folds, Hero raises $0.15, 2 folds, BB calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.32) 4, 2, 10 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero ??

Villain's stats - 22/16/31/74/5.2/50/- over 325 hands.

HUD layout - vpip/pfr/steal%/Fsteal%/3bet/cbet/fold to cbet

Villain's preflop range: JJ-66,AQs-ATs,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s,65s,AQo-ATo,KTo+,QTo+,JTo - 200 combos

My preflop range: 22+,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s,65s,54s,43s ,32s,ATo+,KTo+,QTo+,JTo - 302 combos

Villain's flop continuing range 1: JJ-66,ATs,KTs,QTs,JTs,T9s,ATo,KTo,QTo,JTo = folding 52%

Villain's flop continuing range 2: JJ-66,AQs,ATs,KTs,QTs,JTs,T9s,AQo,ATo,KTo,QTo,JTo = folding 45%

Villain's flop continuing range 3: JJ-66,AQs-ATs,KTs,QTs,JTs,T9s,AQo-ATo,KTo,QTo,JTo = folding 38.5%

Unless villain's calling 100% of the time with Ahigh I can bet 2/3 pot profitably on this flop with atc. So I pretty much have to bet A5s suited here.

Anyway now I want to look at my range.

My +EV value bets are: TT, 44, 22, AA-JJ, AT-QT

My strongest to weakest semi-bluffs are: 65s, A5s, A3s, then probably my two pair draws? Actually they might have reverse implied odds well the A4s A2s at least.

If villain is folding in the region of 40-50% is it a good idea to check my TT 44 22 sometimes or just go for three streets since I'm going to be attacking those flops a lot?

Here's how I think I should play my range in this spot.

Value bet: TT 75%, 44 75%. 22 75%, AA-JJ, AT-QT
Check: TT 25%, 44 25%, 22 25%, JT, 99-55, 22, A4s, A2s
Semi-bluff: All gutshots, overcards, backdoor straightdraws/fds, 54s 43s, 32s

Thoughts?

Post some 10nl hands
Hand 1 i donț llike the 3bet
Hand 2 i'd barrel any overcards+ when checked to me at this stage.

How are you constructing your flop check back range?

One consideration if villain is the type to fire light facing a flop check, and bets about 2/3 pot, that means you need to be able to continue with around 60% of your flop check back range on this board.

Originally Posted by griffey24

So as a very general example. Villain opens pre and you defend 10% of your range.
10% of 1326 total possible combos is ~130 (rounding from 132 for simple math purposes)
If villain bets pot on the flop, he's risking 1 for 1, so his bet needs to work 50% of the time. This means you need to defend (call or raise) with 50% of your range.
Flop defending range = 130*50% = 65 combos
Turn villain bets pot, you need to defend another 50% = 32 combos (approx)
River villain bets pot, you need to defend another 50% = 16 combos.

Just wanted to drop by and say that working through some of these examples is invaluable in my brief experience of doing so. It's amazing how few combos you actually need to get to showdown with and how powerful those combos will be on most board textures. I've only recently begun to think in this way at the table and it's definitely helping me become less "call-y" on all streets and also cut out some of the airball bluff raises and floats I'm prone to make (now I'm doing both with a bit more sense).

Can we crudely use this approach though for when villains aren't betting 100%? Say hypothetically, if villain pots it on the flop and we assume he pots this particular flop with 60% frequency, can we then assume we need to defend 65 combos * 60%?

Originally Posted by The Bean Counter

Just wanted to drop by and say that working through some of these examples is invaluable in my brief experience of doing so. It's amazing how few combos you actually need to get to showdown with and how powerful those combos will be on most board textures. I've only recently begun to think in this way at the table and it's definitely helping me become less "call-y" on all streets and also cut out some of the airball bluff raises and floats I'm prone to make (now I'm doing both with a bit more sense).

Can we crudely use this approach though for when villains aren't betting 100%? Say hypothetically, if villain pots it on the flop and we assume he pots this particular flop with 60% frequency, can we then assume we need to defend 65 combos * 60%?

Generally playing GTO is with the purpose of ensuring that villain isn't profitable wit his air hands.

If villain is known to know be playing GTO himself, and playing a range that is either too heavily weighted towards value or bluffs, then we could adjust our frequencies accordingly. But by adjusting we would then be exploiting our knowledge of villain.