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al yell
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10-03-2009, 11:35 AM
Post subject: Ahead Of The Rake
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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"Defeat is not the worst of failures. Not to have tried is the true failure." -- G.E. Woodberry
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CURRENT BLOG : When Push Comes To Shove
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Poker Goal
- Play sustainably profitable poker (NLHE).
Career Highlights
- Currently grinding cash games up to 100nl
- Highest earnings in any given month: $620
- Best tourney payout: $600 (5th place)
- Biggest game I've sat in: live $500nl
Poker Influences
- Andrew Seidman
- Cole South
- Jared Tendler
- Haseeb Qureshi
- Tommy Angelo
- My fellow poker mates (u know who u r)
- FTR community as a whole
updated April 2010
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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I recently had the urge to create a journal. Not only to chronicle my progress but also as an aid to dump the mental clutter I tend to carry forward. If you happen to peruse and draw anything from my navel gazing then all the better. Please reply freely.
I was going to kick things off with a summary of my poker misadventures over the last couple years but I'll focus instead on where I am and where I want to be.
I'm currently grinding 10nl and bonus whoring. Obv to build a roll but more so to practice improving my game. I could actually be playing a bit higher but I'm a huge BR nit and I really don't feel that confident in my game (for reasons I won't get into. Think: spewtard). Though I've been an active player for a couple years I've been lazy and passive in my approach to learning; something I plan to attack with vigor moving forward.
Here's September.

I was mostly 12 tabling slow, boring, ABC poker. Played roughly 2k hands/day, so 2 to 3 hours of play daily which I'd like to work up to 5 or 6. Other goals include following through with the learning techniques introduced by Jared Tendler which basically consists of keeping a written record of sessions for review in order to systematically weed out weaknesses and introduce new skills. (i.e. a method for building and strengthening your 'A' game).
I haven't played in two days because my sleep is all out of whack. I was going to bed at 4am but since I started working out to P90X it would appear my body is somehow trying to tune itself to a different cycle. Undoubtedly one more copacetic with nature's rhythm and not that of a degenerate poker player's. Not that I mind. Living on Vampire Time was beginning to take its toll.
-- -- --
been up all night, can't sleep but too out of it to play. So I'm reviewing hands...
#1 No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed)
SB ($9.29)
BB ($19.23)
UTG ($10.15)
MP ($5.51)
Hero (Button) ($14.76)
Preflop: Hero is Button with 6 , 6
UTG calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.50, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.40
Flop: ($1.15) 5 , J , Q (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.80, UTG calls $0.80
Turn: ($2.75) A (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $2, UTG calls $2
River: ($6.75) 10 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $11.46 (All-In)
I don't think Villain can profitably call against my shoving range which includes quite a few K's.
#2 No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (4 handed)
Hero (SB) ($10.85)
BB ($16.11)
UTG ($6.30)
Preflop: Hero is SB with A , K
UTG bets $0.20, Button raises $0.75, Hero raises $1.25, 1 fold, UTG calls $1.10, Button calls $0.55
Flop: ($4) 10 , 9 , K (3 players)
Hero bets $3.33, UTG calls $3.33, Button raises $13.78 (All-In), Hero calls $6.22 (All-In), UTG calls $1.67 (All-In)
Turn: ($28.10) 5 (3 players, 3 all-in)
River: ($28.10) 3 (3 players, 3 all-in)
Total pot: $28.10
Results:
Button had J , 5 (one pair, fives).
Hero had A , K (one pair, Kings).
UTG had 6 , K (one pair, Kings).
Outcome: Hero won $26.70
[x] Never folding TPTK ftw
Oh yeah, played a home SnG last night and got it in ahead uber deep on a Th8c9sKc Turn w/T8 vs AcJc after donking Flop for pot and getting called by PFR. River came 2c. gg. I was basically flipping against his range I think. Guy was a station.
A little later this guy's analysis blew my mind:
They're still like 8 handed.. UTG limps, EP min-raises, CO min-reraises, call, call.
Flop is KcJc5c. UTG checks, EP 3/4 pot, CO calls, UTG folds.
Turn is 7c. EP 3/4 pot, CO calls.
River blanks. EP again bets roughly 3/4 pot, CO calls pretty quickly. EP shows AT no club, CO flips over 33 with the 3 of clubs for a flush.
When I asked him what compelled him to call (thinking maybe he had a sick tell or something because these guys play together often) he explained how the board was all black cards, he had two black cards, so surely his opponent was holding red cards and couldn't have a flush. !! And he wasn't even leveling me.
Can I get a "+", can I get an "E", can I get a "V". What d'ya get!? Hooomme Donkaments! (rah rah).
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,371
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Advice: start playing less than 12 tables, focus on improving, put thought into every decision, and actively consider everyones ranges.
This should help fix that red line a bit, you have a leak of too often putting money into the pot then folding.
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Micro2Macro
Advice: start playing less than 12 tables, focus on improving, put thought into every decision, and actively consider everyones ranges.
This should help fix that red line a bit, you have a leak of too often putting money into the pot then folding.
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Thanks for the sound advice and insight. I suppose optimally I should find the right amount of tables that allows me to still actively pick up reads, have time to think, not get bored, flatten the variance, and still capitalize on RB. I'm guessing 4 to 6 for now. The potential increase in winrate/improvement will more than make up for the difference of hands I get to play/hr.
My problem, due to eagerness/impatience, was thinking that I should nit it up mass tabling until I jumped up a couple stakes and then cut down tables and open up my game. But I have the perfect opportunity to practice right now and nothing says that it might not lead to me actually climbing up the stakes a bit faster. It will certainly better prepare me for the higher ones.
Napped for an hour and a half and feel a bit better. Now hopefully I can get to bed at a decent time (i.e. no later than 1am) and condition myself to keep that schedule.
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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I finally had a good night's sleep last night and it was fucking GLORIOUS! I can finally get back to the grind. I'll 6-table with the focus on applying ranges (though this will go without saying from this point on) and not focusing on results as I play. Once I totally pwn that bad habit I'll move on to another until I systematically eliminate them all. This will clear the way for applying new skills. It's just a question of recognition and repetition.
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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today's sess: 4 hrs, 2.2k hands, up 4bi's. Started out rough losing AA to QQ but it was smooth sailing after that. I never once checked my results but left my email notification on and must have received half a dozen emails which I checked every time. I'll be turning it off while I play from now on as I evidently don't have the discipline to ignore the little "new email" msg that pops up.
criticism welcomed:
-Click Here for discussion -
#3 No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed)
BB ($9.75)
UTG ($10.43)
Hero (MP) ($10)
CO ($7.66)
Button ($27.85)
SB ($11.33)
Preflop: Hero is MP with 3 , 3
UTG bets $0.40, Hero calls $0.40, 4 folds
Flop: ($0.95) 10 , 9 , 8 (2 players)
UTG bets $0.40, Hero raises $1.28, UTG calls $0.88
Turn: ($3.51) 9 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $1.76, UTG calls $1.76
River: ($7.03) 8 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $6.56 (All-In)
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,371
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Spew.
The turn pairing also makes it harder to rep a set due to combinatorics, and your sizing is suspicious.
Assuming no reads: Fold flop>>>float flop>>>raise flop, imo. Don't run multi-street bluffs without appropriate reads.
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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In regards to hand #3 above, at the risk of appearing like a total donk I will disclose my honest and precise thought process so it can be picked apart and critiqued. I caught myself being reluctant to do this out of embarrassment and fear of being wrong. This is no doubt a big part of what has stunted my progress. Fortunately, being something of a step removed with this blog, I feel I can go into it and I'm ready to receive and consider all opinions and constructive criticism.
meta/gameflow: I'd just played a hand with him at another table. I flatted 99 from SB to his BTN raise then donked a AK9r flop. He raised, I shoved, he called and showed AQ.
pf: I'm flatting 33 initially for set value against his UTG range which I estimated was something like top 8% of hands: 88+,ATs+,KTs+,QJs,AJo+
My flatting range here is something close to JJ-22,AQs-AJs,KJs+,QTs+,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,AQo
flop: He bets less than half pot on a board that is pretty scary for a significant portion of his range. So I raise repping strength or a big draw and immediately plan to b/f the following Turn cards: 6-T, any non-broadway diamond if he calls.
turn: when the 9 comes and pairs the board and its checked to me I just thought, "That's way better for me than it is for him." When he checks I spontaneously decided to bet half pot because I decided this was the best way to repp the nuts by making it look like I'm hoping to get raised or don't want him folding to too large a bet. But it was also the perfect amount to leave him exactly a PSB left behind if he should call. If I bet bigger and he calls he might be more inclined to get stubborn with an over-pair if he feels pot committed (if only for psychological reason as oppose to actual mathematical ones). When he flats I remember thinking, "He has an over-pair and doesn't know what to do or is playing a draw passively."
river: 8. Now, being a double paired board and seeing him check again, I think slowplayed straights, overpairs, missed draws are all folding, and I think he raises me on the flop with a set so I don't put him on a boat. I've shown strength the whole way, he hasn't, there's nothing left to do but put him to a decision for all his chips.
There it is, fwiw. This kind of shit is what happens when I'm playing too few tables. I get way way too deep in my own thoughts; too imaginative and not logical enough I suppose.
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,371
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Excellent summary of your thoughts. It's good to write them all out to get a better idea of how you were thinking in the hand and also bring out some history etc. that can help analyze the situation more effectively.
I think you should copy/paste this hand in the BC as well as your thoughts on it so some discussion can get started since some of the best contributors to the BC don't browse through the hands in the Operations forum as often.
I'm not quite sure what to think exactly but I'll say this for now:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by al yell
meta/gameflow: I'd just played a hand with him at another table. I flatted 99 from SB to his BTN raise then donked a AK9r flop. He raised, I shoved, he called and showed AQ.
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You have a read that he isn't folding top pair or an overpair - yet this is essentially what you are trying to do in this hand. Whether or not he believes you have it, he's going to call down anyway because he's a station. Even if this player KNOWS you are taking the line to represent a set/boat or whatever, he's not going to talk himself into folding. Especially after he lost a big pot - he's going to want to get that money back however he can, and if he has top pair as the preflop raiser, regardles of whether or not you stacked him before with a stronger hand, he's going to call down anyway most of the time.
If you think you have the best hand, raising only folds worse and gets calls from better in this case, so given that, theoretically, floating seems like it would be the best play.
Basically, just don't waste fancy plays on players who aren't thinking nor care what they stack off with.
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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Discussion of hand #3: link
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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fun game 
#4 No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed)
SB ($16.23)
BB ($12.57)
UTG ($2.75)
MP ($8.70)
Hero (CO) ($10)
Button ($10.26)
Preflop: Hero is CO with Q , A
1 fold, MP calls $0.10, Hero bets $0.45, 3 folds, MP calls $0.35
Flop: ($1.05) 4 , 2 , A (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $0.70, MP calls $0.70
Turn: ($2.45) 4 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $1.95, MP raises $7.55 (All-In), Hero calls $5.60
River: ($17.55) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $17.55
Results:
MP had 4 , 5 (four of a kind, fours).
Hero had Q , A (full house, fours over Aces).
Outcome: MP won $16.68
-- -- --
#5 No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed)
CO ($16.73)
Hero (Button) ($18.54)
SB ($2.44)
BB ($10.05)
UTG ($1.68)
MP ($5.84)
Preflop: Hero is Button with K , Q
3 folds, Hero bets $0.35, SB calls $0.30, 1 fold
Flop: ($0.80) J , J , Q (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks
Turn: ($0.80) J (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.40, SB raises $2.09 (All-In), Hero calls $1.69
River: ($4.98) 5 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $4.98
Results:
Hero had K , Q (full house, Jacks over Queens).
SB had 3 , J (four of a kind, Jacks).
Outcome: SB won $4.74
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,739
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hand 3: i think anything other than folding the flop is spew
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alexos
hand 3: i think anything other than folding the flop is spew
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It's certainly the consensus, and I do normally fold the flop. Maybe the real lesson to be taken from this is to recognize why I found myself getting out of line as to avoid its re occurrence.
I know it's completely result oriented, but had I lost the hand my mistake may have been immediately evident to me. Thanks for the feedback.
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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gah, it's noon and I'm just waking up. Why do the games have to be SO good at 3 in the fucking morning!?
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,739
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yeah its ridiculous.. im almost 100% sure, that if we were to play only between midnight and 5am, our winrate would at least triple
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, terrorising the micros
Posts: 5,502
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alexos
yeah its ridiculous.. im almost 100% sure, that if we were to play only between midnight and 5am, our winrate would at least triple
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move to nz for a while?
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by daven
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alexos
yeah its ridiculous.. im almost 100% sure, that if we were to play only between midnight and 5am, our winrate would at least triple
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move to nz for a while?
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Tempting.. Maybe when my finances catch up with my goals, though in some ways that's prob the wrong approach.
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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What a day! If I may I'd like to invite you all to play a little game I call, "Spot The Stacks" at these 25nl tables:

I had a nearly 8 hour day that essentially went like this:

I'm so wired and fried at the same time. I'll go play some Assassin's Creed until I pass out. Here are the highlights of the sess...
This guy sat down with me HU and was literally shoving ATC pf. He hit and ran me after this beauty:
#6 No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (2 handed)
Hero (SB) ($42.55)
BB ($14.44)
Preflop: Hero is SB with A , K
Hero calls $0.15, BB bets $14.19 (All-In), Hero calls $14.19
Flop: ($28.88) 3 , 5 , 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Turn: ($28.88) 10 (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: ($28.88) 2 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $28.88
Results:
Hero had A , K (high card, Ace).
BB had 10 , K (one pair, tens).
Outcome: BB won $27.88
-- -- --
And prob the best hand was this one:
#7 No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed)
UTG ($21.90)
Hero (MP) ($47.40)
CO ($32.98)
Button ($14.96)
SB ($5.88)
BB ($4.73)
Preflop: Hero is MP with 10 , A
1 fold, Hero bets $0.85, CO calls $0.85, 3 folds
Flop: ($2.05) K , 6 , 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.40, CO calls $1.40
Turn: ($4.85) Q (2 players)
Hero bets $3, CO raises $6, Hero calls $3
River: ($16.85) J (2 players)
Hero bets $13, CO raises $24.73 (All-In), Hero calls $11.73
Total pot: $66.31
Results:
Hero had 10 , A (straight, Ace high).
CO had Q , K (two pair, Kings and Queens).
Outcome: Hero won $63.31
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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Put in a short sess this morning, and by morning i mean 2pm. Kept defaulting back to autopilot and wasn't able to sustain any kind of 'A' game so I decided to stop at 1k hands... but not before taking a quick stroll through Value Town. I was in the neighborhood after all and didn't want to be rude by not stopping in to say hi to the folks.
#8 No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed)
Hero (BB) ($32.25)
UTG ($29.36)
MP ($25.10)
Button ($27)
SB ($4.61)
Preflop: Hero is BB with K , A
1 fold, MP bets $2.25, 2 folds, Hero calls $2
I'd normally 3bet but I wanted to keep a monkey to my left in the pot
Flop: ($4.60) Q , 5 , K (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $2.30, Hero calls $2.30
Turn: ($9.20) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $4.30, Hero calls $4.30
River: ($17.80) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $23.40 (All-In), MP calls $16.25 (All-In)
Total pot: $50.30
Results:
Hero had K , A (one pair, Kings).
MP had 9 , A (one pair, nines).
Outcome: Hero won $55.45
-- -- --
#9 No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed)
Hero (BB) ($25)
UTG ($30.93)
MP ($25.31)
CO ($36.60)
Button ($24.35)
SB ($12.83)
I'd seen Villain get it in light and make real thin value bets
Preflop: Hero is BB with K , A
2 folds, CO calls $0.25, 2 folds, Hero bets $0.90, CO calls $0.90
Flop: ($2.40) A , 8 , 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.80, CO calls $1.80
Turn: ($6) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $4.90, CO calls $4.90
River: ($15.80) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $17.15 (All-In), CO calls $17.15
Total pot: $50.10
Results:
Hero had K , A (two pair, Aces and eights).
CO had A , 6 (two pair, Aces and eights).
Outcome: Hero won $47.60
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,739
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#8 Id like to hear your reasoning for shoving river. You should just c/c. He's gonna value bet all Kings anyway and the other part of his range is air or TJ.
#9 Std
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alexos
#8 Id like to hear your reasoning for shoving river.
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I was actually keeping a close eye on this guy 'cause it was just a matter of time before he donated his stack. He was a total maniac. From the time I sat down he'd open shoved 3 hands pf and over shoved nearly a half a dozen flops then showed a variety TPNK type hands. No one was playing back at him. When he wasn't doing that he was always checking the River in spots he was obviously beat/weak and made one call OOP with 3rd pair where a nit was value betting. I also figured shoving looked bluffy/suspicious even though he obv wasn't thinking.
Justified or still spewy? Thanks for yr feedback.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,739
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i guess it cant be that bad vs a donk.. but then again theres so much air in his range then that i'd still let him bluff river prob
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alexos
i guess it cant be that bad vs a donk.. but then again theres so much air in his range then that i'd still let him bluff river prob
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k, ty. This is really educational - not only in regards to my play but also in bringing about awareness of my slightly flawed logic and deceptive self-certainty. Actually that's not accurate b/c I'm not certain about anything!
The deeper I delve the more I see things that need work, naturally. But the very recognition of that fact suggests improvement and with this I know I'm heading in the right direction, which is exciting.
I am grateful, also, to all who continue to be overwhelmingly generous with their time, guidance and knowledge. I can't imagine success would find itself easily without consistent support and encouragement.
sry for the sentimentality - i put my cat down today.
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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No poker today. It it my intention to continue to find new and better ways to utilize this journal. I updated first post above to include some editable content focusing on development and giving a summary of "where I'm at". For those following along please feel free to suggest modifications to the 'Skills Development' list (or anything else for that matter) if you feel there's anything I should be aware of. Always greatly appreciated.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,739
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You seem really focused and perfectionist/nit :P Nice list though.
What's left is to grind a lot of hours and post a lot of hands/discussions. Preferably in SHNL/beginners since it gets more traffic than here.
Gl.
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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Got in a really short session tonight. Games were dead. Up a bit.
- Click Here for discussion -
#9 No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed)
SB ($34.66)
BB ($53.83)
UTG ($22.58)
Hero (MP) ($37.24)
CO ($13)
Button ($24.49)
Preflop: Hero is MP with Q , A
1 fold, Hero bets $0.85, 1 fold, Button calls $0.85, 2 folds
Flop: ($2.05) K , A , 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.56, Button calls $1.56
Turn: ($5.17) K (2 players)
Hero bets $3.85, Button calls $3.85
River: ($12.87) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $6.77, Button calls $6.77
Total pot: $26.41
Results:
Button had A , 10 (two pair, Aces and Kings).
Hero had Q , A (two pair, Aces and Kings).
Outcome: Hero won $25.09
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,476
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I'll be watching this. You seem to know what you want from poker, and it looks like you have a good way of acheiving those goals. Stay focused, don't let a bad run of cards get you down, etc, etc. Hit me up any time you want to discuss poker and whatnot.
Also, do you always type in your bets? I rarely do that.
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dranger7070
....don't let a bad run of cards get you down....
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A little background:
I'm all too familiar with downswings. I've easily played at least 800k hands of poker in my "career" so far; but I suck(ed). Started out w/SnG's (standard), progressed to cash. I was playing mostly 50nl and taking several shots at 100nl. But it wasn't until I lost nearly 20 bi's at 200nl that I was awakened to the fact that I was making several fundamental mistakes. The hh's confirmed it. It wasn't just variance, though there was a fair share of beats/coolers/shitty spots, etc. This "from the ground up" approach I've embarked on is a solution to practicing while minimizing the risks and rebuilding my shaken confidence after having nosedived from the lower-mid stakes. Anyhow, what you say is very important to learn to do, and extremely difficult.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dranger7070
Also, do you always type in your bets? I rarely do that. 
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Fairly often, but not always. For instance I'll almost never type them pf if there are preset buttons. Mostly for Turn and River bets where I want to bet slightly more or less than what might be a standard bet depending on the situation. I also like throwing in odd bet sizes just to fk w/opp. $5.37 instead of $5.30, etc. But when I do I try to merge between doing it for value/semi-bluffs/air. I can't say with any certainty that it has actually ever helped in any way, but it's fun and keeps me focused.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dranger7070
Hit me up any time you want to discuss poker and whatnot.
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Much obliged. Same to you.
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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new resolution: no more dragging the computer with me to the washroom when I have to take a shit while playing.
-- -- --
- Click Here for discussion -
#10 Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed)
Hero (BB) ($25.57)
UTG ($21.46)
MP ($39.01)
Button ($20.83)
SB ($26.39)
Preflop: Hero is BB with 8 , 8
Hero bets $0.85, UTG calls $0.85, 3 folds
Flop: ($2.05) 10 , 8 , 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.65, UTG calls $1.65
Turn: ($5.35) 10 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.35, UTG raises $2.70, Hero calls $1.35
River: ($10.75) K (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $5.38, Hero raises $20.37 (All-In), 1 fold
Total pot: $21.51
Results:
Hero had 8 , 8 (full house, eights over tens).
Outcome: Hero won $35.43
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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Was like pulling teeth but I managed to get 5 hours in today. I chose to take a shot at 50nl during my evening session. Ran slightly below EV but finished up a bit. It's nice to have things like this happen when taking a shot:
#11 No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (4 handed)
Hero (Button) ($102.95)
SB ($10.95)
BB ($50)
UTG ($72.18)
Preflop: Hero is Button with A , J
UTG bets $1.75, Hero calls $1.75, 2 folds
Flop: ($4.25) 2 , J , A (2 players)
UTG bets $3, Hero raises $12.35, UTG calls $9.35
Turn: ($28.95) 5 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $22.94, UTG raises $58.08 (All-In), Hero calls $35.14
River: ($145.11) 9 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $145.11
Results:
Hero had A , J (two pair, Aces and Jacks).
UTG had 10 , A (one pair, Aces).
Outcome: Hero won $143.11
Energy level was looowww today. I might be fighting something. It's a good thing today's P90X workout was Yoga. I'm in my third week and so far I've really enjoyed it. It's a nice supplement to my occasional martial arts training. Family gathering/dinner tmr so don't know how much time I'll have to play.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,460
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looking good my man, looking good.
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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lol, it appears I've made an impression. One of the 25nl grinders wrote this the minute I sat at the table today (my screename is 'flip4souls'):
v*******> get lost please
v*******> flip
v*******> haha
That being said I am totally doomswitched today. Heading out in a minute for turkey dinner. We'll see if the late night weekend crowd is feeling particularly generous later.
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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Hmm. Have had a couple break even sessions as I think I may have gotten off track in a few situations like these:
#12 No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed)
SB ($10.76)
BB ($28.53)
UTG ($26.83)
MP ($17.77)
Hero (CO) ($31.65)
Button ($25)
Preflop: Hero is CO with K , A
2 folds, Hero bets $0.85, 1 fold, SB calls $0.75, 1 fold
Flop: ($1.95) 7 , A , 5 (2 players)
SB bets $1.95, Hero calls $1.95
Turn: ($5.85) 4 (2 players)
SB bets $5.85, Hero raises $28.85 (All-In), SB calls $2.11 (All-In)
River: ($21.77) A (2 players, 2 all-in)
Total pot: $21.77
Results:
SB had A , 5 (full house, Aces over fives).
Hero had K , A (three of a kind, Aces).
Outcome: SB won $20.69
Wow, as crazy as this is going to sound I just realized something while posting this. It has to do with comparative psychology or something but on the Turn I looked at my stack size compared to his and thought, "I'm beat but screw it" which, irrationally, I don't think I would have done if I had started with 100bb or less. I'll have to watch out for this in the future.
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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Re-reading the previous post I was reminded of this video on life EV by Dan Gilbert.
On another note I've come up with a way to check items off my "Skills" list above. I'll work on two things at once (sometimes more but never so many as to have things potentially bottleneck); one from the Weakness category and the other from Pseudo Skills. This way I'm eliminating counter-productive things which paves the way for new skills. This balance I believe will be the most efficient approach.
Presently I am focused on looking at stack sizes before acting. For the time being I don't actually care what they are or how I should act in relation to what I see, I just want to condition myself to look at them. The moment its ingrained I'll have cleared the way for another item. The weakness I wish to eliminate next is tracking results while I play. According to Jarred Tendler from whom I'm borrowing this approach, it's important to state the reason behind these habits because reasons are more easily turned into recognition. And thru recognition we can begin to initiate change.
On tracking results while I play: This is obviously not constructive in any way and has only ever led to tilt so the decision to stop doing this is easy. To truly do this I have to know the reason I do it and here's what I've come up with. Tracking results during play is nothing short of the combination of having unrealistic expectations, impatience and overestimating my skill. I know this for the simple fact that when I have tracked them in real-time in the past I've been 'happy' when I'm up and 'angry' when I'm down. This is completely irrational because, intellectually, I understand the inherent variance of the game. So it's clear that that I was denying the occurance of variance, wanting to make money quickly, and believing somehow that I should be good enough to make it happen (like I have witnessed/read about in others). So I've made a point when playing to keep results hidden from sight and should I catch myself wanting to sneak a peek I'll simply recognize the desire to do so, take a deep breath, and be rational about it. When I've repeated this enough times to know with certainty that the inclination is no longer there, I'll check it off my list.
On looking at stack sizes: Poker is a game of information so it's obv why I'd want to make a habit of gathering as much of it as I can. The reason I think I don't do this enough is that at times I believe a particular situation to be static. (ex. it's folded around to me and I have AA in the CO and I make my standard 3.5x open and then notice the BB and I are nearly 200bb deep.) Poker is dynamic/fluid, every situation different. Any time I act in opposition to that idea I deny myself the opportunity to make the best possible decision. So when I notice that, before acting, I've been looking at relevant stack sizes each and every time without having to remind myself I'll check it off my list.
As obsessive or "nitty" (to quote Alexos ) as this may appear its what I realize will work best for me. And that in itself was a difficult and important lesson for me to learn. I have more confidence moving forward now then I ever have. I urge anyone who is struggling with anything in their game (or life for that matter) to experiment and adapt a similar exercise.
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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I decided recently to start using HUD again, which I hadn't been using for a few months. I'd realized that I had all this data up on the screen that I had very little idea how to interpret. So I stopped using it to concentrate more on table dynamics, game flow, and fundamental play - which really helped.
For now I'll just be using it to avoid really evident mistakes (like getting into a 4betting war w/QQ vs a 9/7, 0 3bet%). And rather than overwhelm myself with a bunch of stats I won't look at or won't know what to do with, I'll start with vpip/pfr/3bet/hands and just build on that over time. And as oppose to before where I was using HUD as a major crutch, this time it'll be a supplement only, one which in its absence I could still play profitably.
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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Recognized that I needed to take a break right after this hand, which I did. It's a huge victory.
- Click Here for discussion -
#13 No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed)
CO ($42.44)
Button ($33.71)
SB ($26.77)
BB ($24.90)
Hero (UTG) ($36.42)
MP ($14.58)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with K , K
Hero bets $0.85, 1 fold, CO calls $0.85, Button calls $0.85, 2 folds
Flop: ($2.90) 3 , 6 , 4 (3 players)
Hero bets $2.17, 1 fold, Button raises $8, Hero ?
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,476
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Raise more PF, unless 3.5x is your standard then thats fine.
This is either the nuts (set) or like 77+ trying to take it down so it doesnt have to see an ugly turn, i call and c/eval on turn.
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,371
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If you've never seen him raise a flop before (especially a dry one) I think I might just muck...we're like 130bb deep facing a big raise here OOP and there aren't many villains capable of actually doing this as a pure bluff at this level - especially with these stack sizes. You're probably way behind alot here.
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,476
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m, u dont think he does this with like 99/TT/JJ?
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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Board: 3c 6s 4h
65.565% { KcKs }
34.435% { TT-66, 44-33 }
I have good equity, however, things to consider:
- I'm UTG cbetting into the field (i.e. strong range)
- Villain is likely a bit frustrated with me
- He should not expect me to fold an overpair
- His bet size indicates he's willing to stack off, imo
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dranger7070
Raise more PF
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I've actually been meaning to get into the habit of opening for 4x UTG and varying the rest of my positional opens from 2.5x to 4x in relation to the BB's stack size. Any of you guys do this?
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,476
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I change up my bet sizing. 4x+1 per limper from pretty much everywhere. CO and BTN I usually do 3x, 2.5 if SB or BB is short.
And on your hand, him raising so huge makes it more weighted towards sets and like 99/88 imo. There are a lot of turn cards that are bad for his hand so I call this just to piss him off and if a "scare card J, Q, K, A comes I c/eval. If he bets big again ez to let it go. If he goes like 1/2 pot hes probz FOS. (this is a blanket statement and i hate making it, but meh.)
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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I think these are all standard except the #16. It wasn't as clear to me what I should do in that hand, especially on the Flop.
#14 No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed)
BB ($24.75)
UTG ($10.85)
MP ($23.92)
CO ($27.34)
Button ($14.51)
Hero (SB) ($26.78)
Preflop: Hero is SB with A , 10
1 fold, MP bets $0.85, 1 fold, Button calls $0.85, Hero calls $0.75, 1 fold
Flop: ($2.80) 4 , 3 , 9 (3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $2.80, 1 fold, Hero raises $7.94, MP raises $20.27 (All-In), Hero calls $15.13
#15 No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed)
SB ($13.98)
BB ($11.98)
Hero (UTG) ($47.91)
MP ($25)
CO ($15.06)
Button ($26.97)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with A , 6
Hero bets $0.85, 2 folds, Button calls $0.85, SB calls $0.75, 1 fold
Flop: ($2.80) 9 , A , J (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.12, Button raises $6, 1 fold, Hero raises $13.78, Button raises $20.12 (All-In), Hero calls $10.22
- Click Here for discussion -
#16 No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed)
Villain is 53/17 - 7%3bet over 70 hands
SB ($6.61)
Hero (BB) ($26.55)
UTG ($14.38)
MP ($15.22)
Button ($14.53)
Preflop: Hero is BB with 10 , A
UTG calls $0.25, 2 folds, SB calls $0.15, Hero checks
Flop: ($0.75) 8 , J , 10 (3 players)
SB bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, UTG raises $3, 1 fold, Hero calls $2.50
Turn: ($7.25) 10 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $11.13 (All-In), Hero ?
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,739
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last hand: pretty damn close... his 3bet% here is irrelevant, id rather want to see his AF. Anyways, you pretty much have the odds to call if he has a flush.
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,476
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Yea I shippity ship it on this turn, you have the NFD, trips + TK, so even if he DOES have the flush, you have 7 outs to the flush, 3 A's, 3 J's, 3 8's, and 1 T. So you have like 17 outs if you ARE behind. 17*2= ~34% equity to suckout if behind. Pot odds = 37%. So like, you're only making a -EV call when he has the flush, or a FH, but its still a fist pump call imo.
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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Great, thx guys. fwiw I closed my eyes, clicked call, & spiked a 'A'. Next time however I'd rather not just be clicking buttons but understand why I'm doing what I'm doing. This was helpful.
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Alexos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,739
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Just use pokerstove more often though. You're 38% vs 56cc (i think?), and its very unlikely he overbets with a FH or SF here. Also possible he has some 9cX here. Depending on reads you just plug in some ranges in there and voila!
Gj on binking the A though.
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Nine to five is how to survive - I ain't trying to survive / I'm trying to live it to the limit and love it a lot //
Can offer RB deals on most sites, PM me.
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alexos
...its very unlikely he overbets with a FH or SF here...
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This was the precise thought I had that led me to call actually. The fact that I came up with a good 'reason' before acting is already miles ahead of where I was not long ago. Pokerstove is opening my eyes to a lot of things too. I'll keep on it for sure.
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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laaaaammmme. been attempting to remove malware from my pc most of the day which was preventing HM from launching. During the down time I've been having fun with a bit of poker math and intermittently strummed my guitar. I got a few hundred hands in at 50nl before the fiasco so the day wasn't a complete waste. Hopefully everything will be operational again soon.
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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Since I couldn't play much yesterday I really picked apart a few hands I played recently. Doing so eventually led me to needing to do some math, which in turn led me to creating this > Poker Math Spreadsheet.
Try it out and let me know what you think. I tried to make it as intuitive as possible and because I suck at math I essentially wanted to find a fast, no-brainer way to calculate break-even semi- bluff shoves. I also threw in a 'facing all in' ev calculation. If some of you feel like testing it out and everything appears to work correctly maybe I can post it in the 'Tools' forum. Feel free to tweak, adapt, etc. and/or let me know what I've missed. Thx.
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Genitruc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,460
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btw if anybody didn t know this, i figured i d out Al and let you know he was a pretty balling music producer before giving the poker grind a shot.
if this was confidential info, oh well, fk me. just in case you guys doubted that he was awesome or something.
in the KK hand where you get raised, I d fold and pretty much expect to be owning him. no I don t think he s raising 99-JJ all that much. ppl who flat pre don t usually raise for value post...
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when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
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Latest Poker News
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eugmac
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02-10-2012, 10:26 AM WPT Lucky Hearts Poker Open Starts Today in Florida
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The World Poker Tour makes its return to the Sunshine State with the WPT Lucky Hearts Poker Open, a non-televised Season X Main Event to take place at the Seminole Hard Rock Hotel and Casino in Hollyw ...
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