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AvatarKava
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08-29-2004, 12:52 AM
Post subject: Your take?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 464
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I'm on button w/ KK, 3 limpers before me, I raise to 5x BB. One caller.
Flop comes AAQ .. no flush draw. I bet 8x BB, other player raises all-in, then shows me QTo when I lay down.
How would you have played this one? Bigger preflop raise with that many limpers around? Can I do anything but fold with that kind of call preflop? I'm figuring I'm up against at LEAST an ace.
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Humphrind
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 1,887
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Similar to how you did.
He had the right bluff at the right time. He was pretty crazy to be so agressive, hopefully you put him in his place later on.
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I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
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DaNutsInYoEye
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,921
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I'd say you made the right play.... What can you do... sometimes you just get nasty flops like that.
That scenario reminds me of one of the eariler WSOP events they televised. Some big guy called "Thunder" raised with QQ and had one caller. The flop was K,K,rag and the other guy went all-in. Of course he couldn't call so he mucked the queens and the other guy flips over something like 5,6o. I think Thunder went on to win the tourney too. Just shows that you push when you think you have the best of it and pull out when you don't. It comes back around eventually.
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TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
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AvatarKava
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 464
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Haha I wish it came around.
About one orbit later I get :Ah: :Ac:, raise to 5x BB and get one caller (same guy).
Flop comes    ... he checks, I bet big. He calls. Next card is a blank. I push with what I've got left, giving just enough for bad odds if he doesn't have the straight already.
He calls with :Qh: :Th: -  hits and I'm busted.
Naturally he promptly left the table.
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michael1123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 1,720
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Second hand sucks. In the first hand, it sounds like he had a great read on you. That 5x BB bet seems to have made him think you have a high pocket pair. When AA hits on the flop, you obviously are very unlikely to have pocket aces, and he has a Q, so he's betting that you don't have QQ. Also, you even over bet the flop. Would AK bet that much? Surely AA, QQ, or AQ wouldn't. So, he could put you on KK, JJ, TT, or maybe KQ that was strangely played preflop, and he figures he can bully you out.
Very nice play by him, if that's the case.
One more thing to consider, on your side of it. If he has trip aces without a flush draw on the board, or a boat, why would he put you all in? He's overbetting. I'd really strongly consider calling there, unless you think he's a fish who would shove all in with a monster.
On the second hand, he may have thought you were on tilt, as it was probably the reason he showed off his bluff. He had two overs, a flush draw, and the nut straight draw.
It may surprise you, but I don't think this guy is a fish. I think he played very well in these hands, besides maybe being a bit loose preflop.
He's a loose aggressive skilled player, from the looks of it.
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DrNoChance
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 411
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by michael1123
It may surprise you, but I don't think this guy is a fish. I think he played very well in these hands, besides maybe being a bit loose preflop.
He's a loose aggressive skilled player, from the looks of it.
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His post-flop play seems decent, though like you said his overbet in the first example is just begging to be called. Calling big pre-flop raises with QT is not my idea of smart though regardless of his post-flop skills.
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twosevoff
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 526
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by michael1123
On the second hand, he may have thought you were on tilt, as it was probably the reason he showed off his bluff. He had two overs, a flush draw, and the nut straight draw.
It may surprise you, but I don't think this guy is a fish. I think he played very well in these hands, besides maybe being a bit loose preflop.
He's a loose aggressive skilled player, from the looks of it.
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On the second hand, that flop is an absolute monster for QTs, but I think he made a mistake by just calling, especially if he plans on calling the turn when he gets no help. He should have came over the top of you all-in while he still is the favorite to win the hand, with the additional incentive of giving you a chance to lay your hand down to his Q-high and not having to worry about getting paid off if either one of his draws connects.
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AvatarKava
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 464
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nah, I never actually proposed that he was a fish. He was definitely loose, but was excellent post-flop (Hansen-esque?). He lost a LOT of small pots but made up for it with a couple huge wins.
I actually found him on another table with a couple REAL fish. I got on his left and generally stayed out of the way when he wanted to make a move on a pot unless I was very confident in my holdings. Otherwise, we both had a great time busting the fish that kept showing up (actually had KTo and 88 go all-in preflop against my AA) ... I was puzzled when I got reraised twice (both huge), and was all too happy to move in myself.
After I hit and the fish left, I got the hell out of Dodge because I knew he was reading me much better than I was reading him.
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michael1123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 1,720
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He's very loose preflop, for sure. But Fnord, you should know that you can get away with that in NL if you're a very good post flop player. Gus Hansen, Daniel Negreanu, and other guys like that would call that raise on 75s, just based on implied odds. Loose does not equal bad.
The implied odds he has on these QTs hands are pretty good if Avatar has a higher pocket pair, particularly if he can read him enough to know when to bluff and when not to. And if he's playing at stakes that are pretty low for him, the 5x BB is nothing. He's looking to cash in like he did against the aces.
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DrNoChance
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 411
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by michael1123
He's very loose preflop, for sure. But Fnord, you should know that you can get away with that in NL if you're a very good post flop player.
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How many times must I be confused with Fnord? I guess that monkey avatar of mine has got to go 
Point well taken about Negreanu and company. I think I'll stick to mucking QTo to 5xBB raises though 
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michael1123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 1,720
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Haha, sorry. Fnord had an avatar nearly identical to that for a long time.
And yeah, I didn't notice the first hand was offsuit, which makes it looser, since there's less chance of hitting a flop hard enough to take down a monster hand, or at least have a draw to do so.
Still though, I'm impressed with his post flop play.
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allLiving
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 799
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I would've called that bet pretty easily I think. Most players generally are smart enough to call the bet instead of push it with trips. If he had the ace he most likely would have called or checked, not raised all in. Call this maniac
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