Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

Beginners Circle

  > 

Your overpair vs their flopped set

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
bearing
Old 02-19-2006, 02:32 PM     Post subject: Your overpair vs their flopped set #1 (permalink)  

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Uk
Posts: 33
bearing
At a full table if you have AA and you raise you'll probably be called by a couple of pocket pairs who will often hit sets when you hold the highest pair and the board is not scary. Then
Its pretty annoying, because i like to be the one getting the sets rather than the opposite.
I've had a look around for some posts on a decent strategy to counter the set problem and came up short. (i just dont have the time to look through all the archives, especially since i think im using it wrong)

If there's anybody out there who has formulated some way of coping with the damned set-getters other than just using reads and all that useless nonsense (j/k (although because of large pools of players reads can be hard to obtain as everyone knows) )

If there have been any posts that i've missed can someone please point me to them (and sorry if you get hundreds of posts like this every month)
unless im mistaken this is not a very well touched subject around here, maybe because theres nothing you can do...

So other than using standard reads of a player is there any way to get rid of them, or any optimum strategy to use when raising with your big pp's when you know a lot of them want to hit sets
you cant handle the truth!
 
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
Lukie
Old 02-19-2006, 04:45 PM     Post subject: Re: Your overpair vs their flopped set #2 (permalink)  
Lukie's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
Lukie is on a distinguished road
Quote:
At a full table if you have AA and you raise you'll probably be called by a couple of pocket pairs who will often hit sets
I think you vastly overestimate:
a) the likelihood of any PP being dealt
b) how likely hitting a set is

Remember, post-flop, a pair of aces unimproved is just one pair. The deeper you are, the less likely you should go broke with it. Also, for some players, it just becomes so blatantly obvious that they have a set, ie they are normally very passive, conservative players, then one hand they play passively preflop, and all of a sudden 'wake up' and start calling big bets/betting big out of nowhere.
Reply With Quote
Muxy
Old 02-19-2006, 04:57 PM     Post subject: Re: Your overpair vs their flopped set #3 (permalink)  
Muxy's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canadian LOLUH'S AND AMERICAN LOLUHS
Posts: 1,529
Muxy
Send a message via MSN to Muxy Send a message via Yahoo to Muxy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukie
Quote:
At a full table if you have AA and you raise you'll probably be called by a couple of pocket pairs who will often hit sets
I think you vastly overestimate:
a) the likelihood of any PP being dealt
b) how likely hitting a set is

Remember, post-flop, a pair of aces unimproved is just one pair. The deeper you are, the less likely you should go broke with it. Also, for some players, it just becomes so blatantly obvious that they have a set, ie they are normally very passive, conservative players, then one hand they play passively preflop, and all of a sudden 'wake up' and start calling big bets/betting big out of nowhere.
I don't know the odds of other PP's being dealt to the table but I know you flop a set 11.8 % of the time.
Reply With Quote
Blinky
Old 02-19-2006, 06:40 PM #4 (permalink)  
Blinky's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: nutpeddlers anonymous
Posts: 459
Blinky
What lukie said.

A set can be tricky to detect. Check out this thread by MIdas06:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=29053

In general, stuff to look for:

1) the nutpeddling/setfarming rock
2) early position limp/callers (who DO NOT frequently limp/call in EP) that start playing back at you

You will probably pay the set off in part(see Midas06's first example). Make it your goal to avoid paying with your entire stack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondavu
We will not support your pocket pair aggression.
 
Reply With Quote
bigred
Old 02-19-2006, 08:49 PM #5 (permalink)  
bigred's Avatar
PROFESSIONAL TROLL

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
bigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to all
 Besides reads on players, the biggest betting pattern of sets is a call on flop and a minraise on turn (assuming you're throwing out bets on flop and turn). It's like all the fish took "how to play a hit set 101".

If you see a guy who limped and called your raise, and you see something like this, you're probably in trouble.
LOL OPERATIONS
 
Reply With Quote
Chicago_Kid
Old 02-20-2006, 12:51 AM #6 (permalink)  
Chicago_Kid's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: People let me tell you about my best friends...
Posts: 1,132
Chicago_Kid
Send a message via AIM to Chicago_Kid
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
If you see a guy who limped and called your raise, and you see something like this, you're probably in trouble.
Completely agree...this is so common at 100NL and below it's almost funny to watch. You need to exercise discipline and lay down AA/KK/QQ in these spots. For me, I get burned against big-time LAGs who I don't believe when they play back...ooooops.

Exhibit A...just tired and been getting played back at all night, so I decided to "over-power" him. Honestly though...what else could he have???

Game #1550111484: Hold'em NL ($0.50/$1) - 2006/01/28 - 12:27:21 (ET)
Table "Cannonade" Seat 3 is the button.
Seat 1: ACUrness ($95.25 in chips)
Seat 2: Chi-Kid ($108 in chips)
Seat 3: familyguy ($220.17 in chips)
Seat 4: aronsson ($87.50 in chips)
Seat 5: egger ($82.42 in chips)
Seat 6: EA.. ($96.75 in chips)
Seat 7: R@zor ($94.54 in chips)
Seat 8: OPerez48 ($108.25 in chips)
Seat 9: Postie73 ($51.25 in chips)
Seat 10: PlazaPlay ($84.50 in chips)
aronsson: posts small blind $0.50
egger: posts big blind $1
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Chi-Kid [Ah Ad]
EA..: folds
R@zor: calls $1
OPerez48: raises to $5.25
Postie73: folds
PlazaPlay: folds
ACUrness: folds
Chi-Kid: raises to $9.50
familyguy: folds
aronsson: folds
egger: folds
R@zor: calls $8.50
OPerez48: calls $4.25
----- FLOP ----- [6c Jd 3d]
R@zor: checks
OPerez48: bets $5.75
Chi-Kid: calls $5.75
R@zor: raises to $17
OPerez48: raises to $40
Chi-Kid: raises to $98.50 and is all-in
R@zor: folds
OPerez48: calls $58.50
----- TURN ----- [6c Jd 3d][Td]
----- RIVER ----- [6c Jd 3d Td][5h]
----- SHOW DOWN -----
Chi-Kid: shows [Ah Ad] (A Pair of Aces, Jack high)
OPerez48: shows [Jh Js] (Three of a kind, Jacks, Ten high)
OPerez48 collects $241 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot $244 Main pot $241 Rake $3
Board [6c Jd 3d Td 5h]
Seat 1: ACUrness folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Chi-Kid lost
Seat 3: familyguy (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: aronsson (small blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: egger (big blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: EA.. folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: R@zor folded on the Flop
Seat 8: OPerez48 showed [Jh Js] and won ($241) with Three of a kind, Jacks, Ten high
Seat 9: Postie73 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 10: PlazaPlay folded before Flop (didn't bet)
****HAND ENDS****
"Been gone so long, forgot how to poker"
 
Reply With Quote
bigred
Old 02-20-2006, 01:04 AM #7 (permalink)  
bigred's Avatar
PROFESSIONAL TROLL

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
bigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to all
 Minraising a previous raise with AA is asking to get your rockets cracked.
LOL OPERATIONS
 
Reply With Quote
Vrax
Old 02-20-2006, 11:22 AM #8 (permalink)  
Vrax's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Poland
Posts: 632
Vrax
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
Minraising a previous raise with AA is asking to get your rockets cracked.
I 2nd that, pop it to $15-$25 or even more. Easier to put all chips in the middle on most flops against likely lower overpair.
"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
 
Reply With Quote
sejje
Old 02-20-2006, 12:51 PM #9 (permalink)  
sejje's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 883
sejje
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
Minraising a previous raise with AA is asking to get your rockets cracked.
Bingo. It also screams AA...I never see a standard raise get minraised except by AA.
Reply With Quote
johnny_fish
Old 02-20-2006, 03:41 PM #10 (permalink)  
johnny_fish's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
johnny_fish
Never minraise with AA, only with better starting hands:

** Game ID 675311879 starting - 2006-02-06 00:49:19
** Casino Boogie [Hold 'em] (1.50|3.00 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money

- Given sitting in seat 1 with $282.74
- UlaseeS sitting in seat 2 with $37.00
- LOTSACASH sitting in seat 3 with $279.55
- mi1elda sitting in seat 4 with $556.05
- dastra sitting in seat 5 with $59.76
- JoePlague sitting in seat 6 with $228.35
- frankmagnet sitting in seat 7 with $295.50 [Dealer]
- pbags87 sitting in seat 8 with $147.75
- johnny291281 sitting in seat 9 with $322.42
- TripGOD sitting in seat 10 with $300.00 [Sitting out]

pbags87 posted the small blind - $1.50
johnny291281 posted the big blind - $3.00
** Dealing card to johnny291281: 8 of Hearts, 2 of Hearts
Given folded
UlaseeS called - $3.00
LOTSACASH folded
mi1elda folded
dastra called - $3.00
JoePlague folded
frankmagnet raised - $9.00
pbags87 folded
johnny291281 raised - $15.00
UlaseeS folded
dastra folded
frankmagnet called - $15.00

** Dealing the flop: King of Hearts, 8 of Diamonds, 8 of Clubs
johnny291281 bet - $30.00
frankmagnet called - $30.00

** Dealing the turn: 10 of Hearts
johnny291281 bet - $80.00
frankmagnet called - $80.00

** Dealing the river: Jack of Clubs
johnny291281 went all-in - $200.42
frankmagnet went all-in - $170.50
frankmagnet shows: Ace of Clubs, King of Spades
johnny291281 wins $595.50 from the main pot

End of game 675311879
Reply With Quote
BankItDrew
Old 02-20-2006, 05:27 PM #11 (permalink)  
BankItDrew's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
BankItDrew will become famous soon enough
 If on streets 2 or 3 and your bet gets min raised or more, your opponent may have more than one pair.


Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!

Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?

Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
 
Reply With Quote
Iconoclastic
Old 02-20-2006, 09:50 PM #12 (permalink)  
Iconoclastic's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 324
Iconoclastic
You can't combat it, but you can raise more hands preflop other than high PP so that your continuation bets improve their EV.
What's the difference between a large cheese pizza and a poker player?

A large cheese pizza can feed a family of four.
 
Reply With Quote
bigred
Old 02-20-2006, 09:56 PM #13 (permalink)  
bigred's Avatar
PROFESSIONAL TROLL

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
bigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to all
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iconoclastic
You can't combat it.
On this note, I think it simply comes down to what you want to be showing down against an op. Don't think of it as protecting against sets. Think of it in the general poker view of what am I wlling to showdown with this op and is an overpair in that category.
LOL OPERATIONS
 
Reply With Quote
WhooFleuryScores
Old 02-21-2006, 01:56 AM #14 (permalink)  
WhooFleuryScores's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 918
WhooFleuryScores
Send a message via AIM to WhooFleuryScores
What I'll do is if I'm on a bit of a downswing I'll just go all in preflop.Also I will push any raise or reraise before/after me.Less stressful.
Reply With Quote
Fnord
Old 02-21-2006, 02:04 AM #15 (permalink)  
Fnord's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via MSN to Fnord
Just jack it up a bunch and price them out of a call. Then take your hand to the felt.

I would play Aces the same way as this...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG+1 ($147.50)
MP1 ($99.50)
MP2 ($30.50)
MP3 ($98.50)
CO ($165.05)
Button ($13.50)
SB ($44.25)
Fnord ($116.10)
UTG ($141.80)

Preflop: Fnord is BB with A, K.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $4, 1 fold, MP2 calls $4, 3 folds, SB calls $3.50, Fnord raises to $20, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, SB calls $16.

Flop: ($48) T, 4, 6 (2 players)
SB checks, Fnord bets $25, SB folds....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
Reply With Quote
bigred
Old 02-21-2006, 02:08 AM #16 (permalink)  
bigred's Avatar
PROFESSIONAL TROLL

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
bigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to all
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhooFleuryScores
What I'll do is if I'm on a bit of a downswing I'll just go all in preflop.Also I will push any raise or reraise before/after me.Less stressful.
So your play will be result oriented on whether or not you're having a bad day? Doesn't make much sense. You shouldn't be playing if you're tilted in anyway by results.
LOL OPERATIONS
 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
KoRnholio Old 05-26-2012, 03:08 PM    Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:17 PM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.