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Your favourite"any 2 cards" move against nits?

  
 
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Vrax
Old 12-12-2005, 05:37 PM     Post subject: Your favourite"any 2 cards" move against nits? #1 (permalink)  
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Everybody knows cbetting, semibluffing.

My favourite is in BB. Pot-raise the table full of limpers then pot it on flop against single caller. Then show down 72 offsuit and enjoy the next ride while having AA/KK...

Or:
Check-raise re-bluff on scary flop. Flop is for example drawless JJ3, table full of limpers, checks around, button donkbets it (pussy 1/4 pot bet), then I slam a raise 3x his bet or 3/4-full pot and get folds around.

Fnord made recently an interesting topic about "any two cards on any flop" move...

What are your favourite aggro "any two cards" situational moves that can add some flavour to simple straight up poker? Cash game.
"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
 
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bigred
Old 12-12-2005, 05:42 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 Rilla told me about this one. When a standard tagg, vpip 8-18, raises 3x from early or mid, reraise him to 10x. He will either fold preflop or call and have to hit the flop pretty damn strongly to stay in the hand. This is a great move for "floating above the blinds" (as I like to call it) while you're patiently waiting for good hands. Added benefits include player's annoyance if you continue to do this every now and then and hopefully when a player decideds to call your bluff and reraise all in you have aces this time.
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Rondavu
Old 12-12-2005, 07:11 PM #3 (permalink)  
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I definately like bluffing the king turn. Actually it could be a K Q A, or potentially any card higher than the flop board. Act like you just hit it, and throw a deep bet out there depending on how weak you perceive the opponent to be. I do this way more in tournament than cash game. There's a lot of hidden fold equity to be had in this spot against tight players. I especially like this move OOP leading out the turn big.

This thread has great potential
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Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
 
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Rondavu
Old 12-12-2005, 07:16 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Here's another one. Find a player who never semi bluffs draws. If they bet a coordinated board that you completely missed, then hang around for a reasonable price and see if the turn completes a flush or obvious straight. Take it down for a large bet.
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
 
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Lukie
Old 12-12-2005, 09:00 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 Preflop reraise in position.. there aren't many starting hands on any given flop that can handle the pressure, assuming you have the image to be able to represent KK/AA and your opponents are at least somewhat-aware. You are more likely to take it down preflop though.
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Vrax
Old 12-13-2005, 11:55 PM #6 (permalink)  
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This is maybe not any2 card move, but I did it successfully an guy probably got pushed off better hand after my hand lost strength on flop.

I have pocket nines on BB, 3 limpers. I raise standard 4BB (mostly for value) but it narrowed down competition to 1 opponent. My table image is usual (if it matters on $25NL) - supertight player, probably that's why people shy away from showdowns with me.

Flop is 10 rag rag, quite a decent flop but no set. I pot it. Opponent relucantly calls. He could have some pocket pair here or couple of high cards, but It's more likely he's got pocket pair.

Turn is K, then I check. He bets 1/5 of the pot. My guess is, he called me preflop with pocket pair, so this king can be overcard for his PP. I raise with gusto 3x his bet representing that king and he thinks and mucks.
Overs to PP can be our friends

Standard?
"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
 
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pgil
Old 12-14-2005, 04:30 AM #7 (permalink)  
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definitely like the CR bluff. let them bet, they tell you more about their hand that way than if you force a decision out of them by betting.
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Vrax
Old 12-14-2005, 12:23 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Punishing the nits from SB?

karciciel is yet another booksmart setfarmer, 2nd guy was only calling miniraise, so he just wanted see flop for cheap. If I get reraised I'd ofcourse get out.

Basically, entire table was tight (which was rare, but lots of regulars) but I decided to stick around in order to grow some cajones


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hand #152551967 at table: Table TH Mini
Started: Wed Dec 14 14:09:54 2005

_Vrax_ is at seat 1 with 39.55
Partisan is at seat 2 with 21.32
mumusod is at seat 3 with 23.75
coffeecup is at seat 4 with 29.41
TexasGhost is at seat 5 with 16.88
karciciel is at seat 6 with 74.90
Balage2 is at seat 7 with 25.05
czaka102 is at seat 9 with 29.40
petermedt is at seat 10 with 23.38

_Vrax_ posts the large blind 0.25
petermedt posts the small blind 0.12

petermedt: --, --
_Vrax_: [any two]
Partisan: --, --
mumusod: --, --
coffeecup: --, --
TexasGhost: --, --
karciciel: --, --
Balage2: --, --
czaka102: --, --

Pre-flop:

Partisan: Fold
mumusod: Fold
coffeecup: Fold
TexasGhost: Fold
karciciel: Raise 0.50
Balage2: Call 0.50
czaka102: Fold
petermedt: Fold
_Vrax_: Raise 4.00
karciciel: Call 4.00
Balage2: Fold

Flop (Board: 4s, 7s, Ah):

_Vrax_: Bet 4.25
karciciel: "ok I believe you"
karciciel: Fold

Showdown:
_Vrax_ shows: Ks, 8c (high card, Ace)

_Vrax_ wins the pot of 8.22 by default

(0.40 rake were taken for this hand)

_Vrax_: "small pair?"
karciciel: "um yeah"
"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
 
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r8ed
Old 12-14-2005, 04:05 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Against a tight player who raised preflop and c-bets. Call his cbet and then lead out the turn with 3/4 to full pot regardless of what card hits. This works 75% of the time. I usually do this when I have a low PP and miss. Sometimes I actually hit my set on the turn which is nice. I don't do this more than twice to the same player.
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Fnord
Old 12-14-2005, 04:17 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r8ed
Against a tight player who raised preflop and c-bets. Call his cbet and then lead out the turn with 3/4 to full pot regardless of what card hits. This works 75% of the time. I usually do this when I have a low PP and miss. Sometimes I actually hit my set on the turn which is nice. I don't do this more than twice to the same player.
Inquiring minds want to know what studs like ILikeAces and Michael1123 do in these spots. I HATE it when people do this to me...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Vrax
Old 12-14-2005, 05:04 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Inquiring minds want to know what studs like ILikeAces and Michael1123 do in these spots. I HATE it when people do this to me...
umm...me too, I HATE it.

BTW, today It was tough situation for me, I have UTG kings, raise and button and BB calls. Flop is rags with hearts flushdraw, I pot it, BB calls. Turn is Ace of clubs and BB leads at me about 2/3 of pot, 18BB amount...your line?
"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
 
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Fnord
Old 12-14-2005, 05:34 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrax
BTW, today It was tough situation for me, I have UTG kings, raise and button and BB calls. Flop is rags with hearts flushdraw, I pot it, BB calls. Turn is Ace of clubs and BB leads at me about 2/3 of pot, 18BB amount...your line?
This one is easy because you have showdown value.

What was the size of your opener? How much money is behind?

You could test him for his stack, planning to check behind on the river. Another reasonable line is to just call.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Vrax
Old 12-14-2005, 06:00 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrax
BTW, today It was tough situation for me, I have UTG kings, raise and button and BB calls. Flop is rags with hearts flushdraw, I pot it, BB calls. Turn is Ace of clubs and BB leads at me about 2/3 of pot, 18BB amount...your line?
This one is easy because you have showdown value.

What was the size of your opener? How much money is behind?

You could test him for his stack, planning to check behind on the river. Another reasonable line is to just call.
PFR was 4xBB. Standard 100BB stack and he has me covered.

Yeah, that's what I did. That "rep the ace" thing done by him was quite suspicious (I interpreted his betting as "I think you have QQ-JJ and you will fold like yet another weak tight wimp"), because he check/called my flop pot sized bet. Does AK calls PSB on ragged board? On flop with draw? I raised him hard (45BB) and he thought a bit and called. River non heart check check and he shows down his busted heart draw...entire table goes WTF...probably they expected AA from me because that was basically my message "I hit miracle ace and now I'm set-happy"

But those players are more tricky those days...
"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
 
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Miffed22001
Old 12-14-2005, 06:31 PM #14 (permalink)  
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 I have two
In ring game, as Rondavu noted i wait for the draws to hit when im playing an opp who doesnt bet his draws, i then bang in a big bet as i do when i actually have it and in tournament play i hammer out big turn bets when i know opp is weak on a pp and 'thinks' hes good, but thats just standard i guess.
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BankItDrew
Old 12-14-2005, 10:30 PM #15 (permalink)  
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 My favorite is when I'm in EP with one villain after flop. Flop comes. I check. Villain bets. I min-raise. I bet pot on turn. He folds.


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harmisajedi
Old 12-15-2005, 03:40 AM     Post subject: Re: Your favourite"any 2 cards" move against nits? #16 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrax
My favourite is in BB. Pot-raise the table full of limpers then pot it on flop against single caller. Then show down 72 offsuit and enjoy the next ride while having AA/KK.
treat 72 like bullets in the bb--the value implicit in advertising the bluff = cash money as soon as soon as you catch a quality hand. people will come over the top of your raises w/ middle pairs/marginal high suited connectors, & you can crush them w/ high pps.
i bet 2 dolla on my flush draw
 
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Vrax
Old 04-28-2006, 05:46 AM #17 (permalink)  
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Betting 4 flushboards...?

My table image: NIT, in my last pot I busted flushdraw pusher with my set and showed down a couple overpairs and tptk's (nice streak of cards). My stack is 250BB.

I limp/call weaktight nit's raise with red pocket pair, board K high 3 spades. I check for info, he bets wimpy 4BB, I call. Turn another spade, I bet 1/2 pot and he folds. If he called I'd put him on As (because he is nit thats why) and shut down but I noticed that even the loosest calling stations muck everything that is worse than set if they see 4suits that are not theirs.

I guess it's standard tagg move...but it's nice to know situations for making cheap stabs.
"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
 
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piratepeaty
Old 04-28-2006, 03:34 PM     Post subject: Re: Your favourite"any 2 cards" move against nits? #18 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrax

Or:
Check-raise re-bluff on scary flop. Flop is for example drawless JJ3, table full of limpers, checks around, button donkbets it (pussy 1/4 pot bet), then I slam a raise 3x his bet or 3/4-full pot and get folds around.
My favorite is re-potting guys that do this. There are some guys who will always lead these boards strong (or raise when someone bets weak) when they miss, and check when they hit. You can win some nice pots with garbage if you have the balls.
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ekillian
Old 04-28-2006, 03:49 PM     Post subject: Re: Your favourite"any 2 cards" move against nits? #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piratepeaty
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrax

Or:
Check-raise re-bluff on scary flop. Flop is for example drawless JJ3, table full of limpers, checks around, button donkbets it (pussy 1/4 pot bet), then I slam a raise 3x his bet or 3/4-full pot and get folds around.
My favorite is re-potting guys that do this. There are some guys who will always lead these boards strong (or raise when someone bets weak) when they miss, and check when they hit. You can win some nice pots with garbage if you have the balls.
You had better be right pretty often. You're not gonna find a situation where this play is right often. I mean if you know a guy's tendancies well enough than by all means go for it. But this isn't something for an inexperienced player to go try against unkown players. Do it often enough you'll end up being wrong or they'll start making good calls on you and you'll quickly become the fish that people snicker at.
(Guys who reraise a check raise with nada are fun to play against in general.)
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piratepeaty
Old 04-28-2006, 04:22 PM     Post subject: Re: Your favourite"any 2 cards" move against nits? #20 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekillian
Quote:
Originally Posted by piratepeaty
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrax

Or:
Check-raise re-bluff on scary flop. Flop is for example drawless JJ3, table full of limpers, checks around, button donkbets it (pussy 1/4 pot bet), then I slam a raise 3x his bet or 3/4-full pot and get folds around.
My favorite is re-potting guys that do this. There are some guys who will always lead these boards strong (or raise when someone bets weak) when they miss, and check when they hit. You can win some nice pots with garbage if you have the balls.
You had better be right pretty often. You're not gonna find a situation where this play is right often. I mean if you know a guy's tendancies well enough than by all means go for it. But this isn't something for an inexperienced player to go try against unkown players. Do it often enough you'll end up being wrong or they'll start making good calls on you and you'll quickly become the fish that people snicker at.
(Guys who reraise a check raise with nada are fun to play against in general.)
Obviously, you need to know the player. Re-raising a check raiser isn't a standard play of mine but it is standard against certain opponents. It also really suits my style and it's one of my favorite plays (although I don't use it often).

When I do use it, it usually works. It's like you are 3 levels ahead of the competition and that is the most enjoyable type of poker to play.
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GatorJH
Old 04-28-2006, 05:26 PM #21 (permalink)  
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GatorJH
Old 04-28-2006, 05:28 PM     Post subject: Re: Your favourite"any 2 cards" move against nits? #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harmisajedi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrax
My favourite is in BB. Pot-raise the table full of limpers then pot it on flop against single caller. Then show down 72 offsuit and enjoy the next ride while having AA/KK.
treat 72 like bullets in the bb--the value implicit in advertising the bluff = cash money as soon as soon as you catch a quality hand. people will come over the top of your raises w/ middle pairs/marginal high suited connectors, & you can crush them w/ high pps.
I can see this working as I make a note when someone puts in a hefty raise from the BB against a bunch of limpers. Of Course, with my luck, I will see this for the first time and push against A's because I got to the table after he had already made the move and now has a hand.
Poker is easy, it's winning at poker that's hard.
 
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BankItDrew
Old 04-28-2006, 05:32 PM #23 (permalink)  
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 In BB. See flop after check. checks around to button who donk bets it small, we pot it here then again on the turn.


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BankItDrew
Old 04-28-2006, 05:39 PM #24 (permalink)  
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 sorry, thought this was a new thread. funny how i posted the exact same move. it works!


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naturaltan
Old 04-28-2006, 06:41 PM #25 (permalink)  
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I tell them what I have ... call the flop ... call the turn ... and make a big raise on the river. It's funny to see their reaction when I show my cards and it's indeed crap
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Vrax
Old 04-28-2006, 07:52 PM #26 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BankItPayette
sorry, thought this was a new thread. funny how i posted the exact same move. it works!
Yes BankitPayette, I decided to do some grave digging, as we have plenty of new posts "omg wtf I cant win shit on NL$25/NL$50 and I just moved up". Also there was a huge sticking point for me in the past - dealing with tightasses that rarely paid off the nuts.

Learning to fold overpairs is quite a good move too, but those are good action boosters when we play tight poker and want to be seen in pot once in a while...

Rilla also said something like this:
"Draw to straights and use flush cards as scarecards."
"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
 
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GatorJH
Old 04-28-2006, 10:44 PM #27 (permalink)  
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Is this the point in the thread where we show the moves that work. When the second Q hit I was praying MP3 would put out a weak bet on this and the SB would call so I could check/raise both of them out of the hand.

I love it when a plan comes together!!!!!


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($24.50)
UTG ($54.35)
UTG+1 ($43.70)
MP1 ($40.25)
MP2 ($54.45)
MP3 ($38)
CO ($53.25)
Button ($49.75)
SB ($50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3, J.
4 folds, MP3 calls $0.50, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($1.50) 5, T, Q (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: ($1.50) Q (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets $1, SB calls $1, Hero raises to $4, MP3 folds, SB folds.

Final Pot: $7.50
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givememyleg
Old 08-02-2006, 08:09 AM #28 (permalink)  
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 bump because this is the first time i've come across this thread and it contains a lot of great information

cmon you LAGs, add more to it

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Vrax
Old 08-02-2006, 04:04 PM #29 (permalink)  
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Float, float...and yet another flush representation. I probably had best hand anyway but lots of better hands fold here. If he calls turn and checks, I PSB push any non-diamond river.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hand #384679814 at table: Table TH Mini
Started: Wed Aug 02 00:04:23 2006

CopyKat is at seat 1 with 52.34
DOGBALLS88 is at seat 2 with 5.73
_Vrax_ is at seat 3 with 26.57
Vic Lustig is at seat 4 with 19.63
MScStap is at seat 5 with 20.63
- ty - is at seat 6 with 24.39
*dakota* is at seat 7 with 31.86
yeahh is at seat 8 with 26.04
suli777 is at seat 9 with 22.87
J O N A S is at seat 10 with 26.04

- ty - posts the large blind 0.25
MScStap posts the small blind 0.12

MScStap: --, --
- ty -: --, --
*dakota*: --, --
yeahh: --, --
suli777: --, --
J O N A S: --, --
CopyKat: --, --
DOGBALLS88: --, --
_Vrax_: 4h, 4s
Vic Lustig: --, --

Pre-flop:

*dakota*: Fold
yeahh: Raise 1.00
suli777: Fold
J O N A S: Fold
CopyKat: Fold
DOGBALLS88: Fold
_Vrax_: Call 1.00
Vic Lustig: Call 1.00
MScStap: Fold
- ty -: Fold

Flop (Board: Jd, 3c, 8d):

yeahh: Bet 0.75
_Vrax_: Call 0.75
Vic Lustig: Fold

Turn (Board: Jd, 3c, 8d, 5d):

yeahh: Bet 1.25
_Vrax_: Raise 6.00
yeahh: Fold
"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
 
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LeFou
Old 08-02-2006, 05:00 PM #30 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrax
I have UTG kings.. . Turn is Ace of clubs and BB leads at me about 2/3 of pot

I raised him hard (45BB)
...entire table goes WTF...
Sidenote: is this what "showdown value" means? I hear that a lot esp. from Fnord and am not totally sure I grasp it or how to get it or how to cash in on it.
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Genitruc
Old 08-02-2006, 05:26 PM #31 (permalink)  
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Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,463
Genitruc is an unknown quantity at this point
 3 little ones that seem to work pretty frequently but only against very aware opponents :

- inposition vs aggro opponent (not afraid of 2 bullets), rep the set : low cards on board - call flop, min-raise turn

-oop vs anyone who you suspect might be weak, or have seen laydown a hand before, rep monster on drawy board when draws seemingly haven't hit by calling flop then checkraising turn big (ex : flop k-j-x two-tone... turn rag).

-on 4 flush boards : river bet of 1/3 pot or less. good players WANT to let this go when they don t have it... I've had good players laydown 3rd nut flushes to this bet it looks so obv...
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