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Irisheyes
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02-26-2006, 01:04 PM
Post subject: You all know what to do, right?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Flushed boards, we see them every day. No big deal. I just wanna throw this out and get some different opinions on it. I'll alter different elements of the hand as we go along. If anyone replies that is.
100NL, Loosish kinda fishy table. Everyone has $100 stacks.
You're dealt A A UTG.
You raise to $5. Standard raise for this table.
2 callers in late position. Neither guy has done much out of line that you've noticed.
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Pot is $15
The flop comes 2 6 J
You bet $10. This is your standard flop line.
One fold and the other guy calls. The caller is a regular loose/passive. More calling station then anything else.
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Pot is $35
Turn is 4
What is the optimum move for me here?
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Either bet out again or maybe check/raise if you think it will force him to bet, fold if you get raised again and try and look for a really cheap showdown if he calls the check/raise. He probably doesnt have the flush but dont rule it out.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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poskid_1982
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Midwest
Posts: 392
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
Either bet out again or maybe check/raise if you think it will force him to bet, fold if you get raised again and try and look for a really cheap showdown if he calls the check/raise.
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I dont really like giving the possibility of a freecard without the A. I bet standard 2/3 value turn bet and fold to a raise. You're likely beaten if villian raises you here without much hope of catching back up.
PK
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Superb play sir...I always call 20% of my stack off with a gutshot draw. Excuse me while I race for my wallet.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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There is no optimal line against all opponents. Very opponent dependent spot.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by poskid_1982
I dont really like giving the possibility of a freecard without the A . I bet standard 2/3 value turn bet and fold to a raise. You're likely beaten if villian raises you here without much hope of catching back up. |
I would only check if i *know* he will bet at weakness.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
There is no optimal line against all opponents. Very opponent dependent spot.
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Ok then, lets roughly define an opponent.
Lets say this guy is your average loosa/passive fish. Kinda guy who calls you down with weaker kickers etc. One of the guys we make our money off.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Lets say this guy is your average loosa/passive fish. Kinda guy who calls you down with weaker kickers etc. One of the guys we make our money off.
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Inclined to go with bet/fold, but having 2 streets to go complicates things as we're paying off too much when he has it.
How big does he bet? In other words, is he aware of proper bet sizing. Does he tip hands with bet sizes? If either is true, I'm inclined to check and see what he does.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
How big does he bet? In other words, is he aware of proper bet sizing.
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Well he probably won't minbet anyway. He maybe heard of pot-odds on TV. If you check to hem he could bet $10 and it could mean anything.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Does he tip hands with bet sizes?
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Don't know.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
If you check to hem he could bet $10 and it could mean anything.
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Call.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
If you check to hem he could bet $10 and it could mean anything.
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Call. |
Why? How much of the reason for our passive play is because we're afraid he has the flush? What are the other reasons?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Your math on the turn is wrong. Pot is $35.
If I check and draw a bet of unknown strength I would call because folding the best hand is a bigger mistake than letting him see a river.
I also don't mind inducing bluffs from players who won't put me to a difficult decision often enough.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Your math on the turn is wrong. Pot is $35.
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ty, edited.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
If I check and draw a bet of unknown strength I would call because folding the best hand is a bigger mistake than letting him see a river.
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If you can call then why not raise? This guy isn't the type to raise you without a hand that beats you.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
If you can call then why not raise? This guy isn't the type to raise you without a hand that beats you.
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I probably would bet. But if I didn't it would be because I can get a read on his bet size and figure he'll charge me less for showdown than I would charge him given that we're 2 bets from showdown.
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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So if the river comes a blank , what do you estimate the chances you're ahead are? If, as I would believe they are, greater then 50%, surely you don't want a cheap showdown.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
If, as I would believe they are, greater then 50%, surely you don't want a cheap showdown.
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It depends on how big you think your edge is. 51% isn't the cut-off point because you're vulnerable to a raise and won't always get paid off by a worse hand on the river.
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dj newman
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 210
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With a calling station I check the turn and call a reasonable size bet on the turn/river...depending on the type of calling station (some calling stations will not bet without the nuts...I fold to this type), but with most calling stations, they won't bet a whole lot and it is easy to call down any bets they make.
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dj newman
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 210
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And after reading all the other replies...god am I passive.
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