www.flopturnriver.com

Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

Already Registered? Username: Password: Remember Forgot Password
Tweet

Would you have shown your Hole Cards in this situation?

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display Modes

ArcticKnight

12-22-2004, 06:48 AM Post subject: Would you have shown your Hole Cards in this situation?

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: golf course

Posts: 416

I realize that it makes sense to show your hole cards from time to time, and I assume the prevailing logic is that when you do so it is with the intention that the information will help "you" in the future, and not other players.

With that in mind, I was watching the final table in a $100 tourney on UB.
The player with the lowest stack (20K) went in for 10K pre-flop from an early position, and got 3K in blinds. The very next hand, he went 10K again (still in an early position), and once again, everyone folded and he (or she) caught 3K in blinds.

On the second hand he showed his cards-pocket rockets (AA). My question to the others here, is would you do the same?

If he doesnt show, he might leave the others thinking that because he was short-stacked and stealing blinds with a bet that was to big to shake him down on. This might cause the players to call his future 10K bet (especially pre-flop) with something less than they normally would.

However, by showing his hole cards he is saying, "my 10K bet is for real, so think twice." My thinking is that I would rather have the players thinking I was stealing or making a loose bet. I'm not sure what advantage the player gained by showing, other than to perhaps show he was "legitimate."

Did pride get in the way of logic for him?

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!

Corey

12-22-2004, 06:55 AM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Oklahoma City, OK

Posts: 1,349

well Blind steals happen more and more at final tables online.

got (AA) and bet 10k for the 2nd time. Sure show them if no one called. IT proves that hes got a hand not just stealing them. Only thing he might have gained was telling the other players I will raise "only" with a hand so watch out. Then he can do it later down the road on a bluff.

Corey

12-22-2004, 10:47 AM

#3 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

I never show my hole cards ever. Period.

I just don't see the point in giving free information, whatever that info may be, to your opponent.

zilch

12-22-2004, 10:57 AM

#4 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 156

I'm the same as dwarfman on this. I don't show and have never felt the need too.
In this case it doesn't make any sense at all to show. As you say the only time people do show is for future plays. Who's going to believe that the short stack on a MTT final table is only going to steal with top cards?

Corey

12-22-2004, 01:54 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Oklahoma City, OK

Posts: 1,349

you both have a good point as I dont show either.

But of course he could be setting up a blind still with a 83o

Corey

elanto

12-22-2004, 02:31 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 1,117

I sahow my cards when im in the same position as the small stack you wwqere discussin earlier. By showing his AA hes saying to the other guys that he wont go all in with sucky hands. By showing people are going to start resecting his raises a lot more, he set himself up with future raises with 74o :P or other waffles similar to that.

-anto

<dwarfman> No I had sex for the first time on 23rd March 2005 at 11.56pm.

Humphrind

12-22-2004, 02:56 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2004

Location: Kansas City

Posts: 1,887

I've gotten to the point that the only time I show my cards is when I am in the big blind, and the entire table folds to me. I will show particularly bad cards and particularly good cards. But it can't give away any information, cause I never had a chance to act.

The only other time is in live games when I hope to get someone else to show. It rarely happens. But I try.

I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.

a500lbgorilla

12-22-2004, 03:12 PM

#8 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: This room is a good place to be

Posts: 8,379

I show hole cards to loosen up those damn tables on stars. It takes so much work priming them for a little action (Don't play stars cash games, they're boring). I'll also show hole cards in a tourny to demonstrate a read on someone. Hands that you're in with them in the future, you have a phsychological edge (most of the time). I don't do this often, just when they play a decent number of hands and have a nice stack to take. Basically beyond these rare instances, I'm mucking every time.

As for your question about table image and showing AA, I would definatly muck there. If I'm pushing with AA and other top teir hands, I want loose calls. I've got to put my stack together.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

dalecooper

12-22-2004, 09:26 PM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 3,107

I tend to show hole cards to set people up. I'm a gear-switching type of player... if the cards are cold or I just feel like it, I'll play more tight-passive and let the game roll by for a while. Then I'll move into a tight-aggressive or even loose-aggressive style just to shake things up and make people nervous. Immediately prior to switching gears, I like to show a couple of setup hands. Example: I've been playing somewhat loose with bad cards (but winning a lot of pots) and now want to go tight-aggressive. I'll pull off one or two big bluffs with horrible hands, show the hands, and then switch to a tighter (but still very aggressive) style. Example 2: I've been playing tight-aggressive (my normal mode) all night and I want to start bluffing for whatever reason. I'll make a point of showing several very strong hands in a row when I take a pot uncontested... then I'll start my bluffs on subsequent hands.

And sometimes you show just to mess with people and put them on tilt. It's not nice, but it can be an effective means of taking their money. Couple days ago I had T8o in position and called a pre-flop raise, 2X BB. The flop was something like 589 rainbow. He bet, I called with my middle pair (but an eye on some mischief). Turn was another 5, giving me a pretty useless 2 pair. He bet, I called. River was a 6. This of course didn't help me at all, but it had to look terrible to a guy without a 7. He bet again, weakly; I raised all-in and he let it go after thinking about it for a while.

After it was over I showed my hideous two pair and he said he had folded pocket kings. His quote: "Gimme a break." My response: "Not today." (I try not to be an ass in poker games, but some opportunities just force themselves on me.)

After that type of incident I'd usually switch to a tight-aggressive style to take the rest of his money, but unfortunately he left. I think he smelled the tilt coming and wanted to avoid it.

Yeldud

12-22-2004, 10:45 PM

#10 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 149

I will show my hole cards on occasion, depending on the situation. In your example, I think it made sense to show the hole cards.

The othe night I was in a $10.00 UB 6 way tourney. Early in the tourney pre-flop there was an early raiser to 80. I'm sitting on QQ and re-raise to 160. The original raiser goes all-in and I am left with a tough decision. After the buzzer goes off I lay it down and show them. Opponents come across with "GF" "good lay down", etc (turns out I laid down to KK). Anyway, my point, later on when we were down to 4, On occasion I was raising pre-flop on semi-bluffs and some stone bluffs and the opponents were laying down respecting my raises. I was able to drive some stacks down by steeling blinds and calls from limpers. Later I found out from one player that he was specifically laying down because he saw my QQ and figured I was raising with big guns.

In certain situations, it can help you in the long run. However, I will note, I only show my hole cards in tourneys and never in ring games.

Brodie

12-23-2004, 05:30 AM

#11 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 95

I'm a never show guy. Cloutier talks about never showing his cards a lot, but interestingly, he seems to show his cards relatively frequently when he's on TV.

And I love it when I make a big laydown and someone shows me the nuts. My internal response is "thank you for reinforcing my good play."

Brodie

"The present success is the hundred failures of the past."

steelwheel

12-23-2004, 05:45 AM

#12 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 162

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yeldud

Later I found out from one player that he was specifically laying down because he saw my QQ and figured I was raising with big guns.

hehe beautiful.
Im a never show kind of guy. I just dont like to show my cards as I dont like the people I play against to know how I play my hands.
Though I do see benefits of showning.

steel wheels

There is more to poker than life

scottyses

12-23-2004, 09:59 AM

#13 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 39

Normally showing that AA would probably be detrimental to him in the future. But this is final table and he is short stacked. He needs to steal those blinds as often as possible and therefore the more respect he gets, the better. Even if he has a good hand like A-Q the next time he goes in, would he really want a hand like J-K calling him? I for one would still much rather take the pot down uncontested at the final table than play near coinflip situations.

The only losing session is the one you learned nothing from.

TDM100

12-23-2004, 10:31 AM Post subject: Re: Would you have shown your Hole Cards in this situation?

#14 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2004

Posts: 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticKnight

Did pride get in the way of logic for him?

How about Integrity?
I am not advocating to do this or not,
for I am a MUCKER,
but
many will show in this situation to display respect towards the table.
Don’t want to piss off the bigger stacks after stealing consecutive blinds.
I got to do what I got to do from the short stack, here’s proof.
In a sense asking, “Tell me you wouldn’t do the same”.
Obviously when you get a hand like AA its hard not to argue to bet high!
You show that to the chip leaders, they aint gonna argue with ya either.
Many chip leaders will agree with ya, “I would have done the same”.
Therefore there is no doubt, no reason for them to get pissed off at you.
I personally don’t like players intentionally stealing blinds and certainly puts them on my radar screen.
I want to penalize them for it with the first opportunity I have.
Show me respect I’ll grant you some too.
I’m still gonna kick your ass, just going to do it with respect.

I have seen a couple of professionals advocate doing this.
First time I heard of it was from Annie Duke.

DavSimon

12-23-2004, 03:30 PM

#15 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Mount Holly, NC

Posts: 813

DavSimon is an unknown quantity at this point

I rarely show unless I am heads up with someone. If I am running all over someone I will show them all the crap I am raising with and getting them to fold to me - The purpose is to tilt them a little, but more importantly to get them to show down a less then optimal hand - or play back at me with a marginal hand so I can come back over the top. If they know you are capable of raising with ANYTHING it puts fear into them - you can almost hear them thinking; "is this the time he really has a hand or is it junk again." I am always a little surprised when someone lets me steal from them 5-6 or more times in a row. The key is to keep them off balance, fold a small blind to them check/fold a big blind to them after a string of steals...let them catch thier breath - then hammer away again, they really have no idea what is happening to them (very fun)
I will also occasionally show during the Gauntlet for various reasons...but for the most part I keep my cards to myself - particularly in a ring game.

Darby

12-24-2004, 06:45 PM

#16 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 209

Im too young to play in B&M Cardrooms or Casinos, so for me it breaks down like this:

Online-Auto-muck, Never show unless I have too.
Friendly Home Game- Show alot, No one cares or pays attention, and I show alot of big bluffs/big hands
Competitive Home Games-Usually dont show, but sometimes

No one is really good enough to do anything with the info

AvatarKava

12-24-2004, 06:47 PM

#17 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2004

Location: Houston, TX

Posts: 464

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I show hole cards to loosen guys up. It takes so much work priming up Humph for a little action.

-'rilla

TylerK

12-24-2004, 06:59 PM

#18 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME

Posts: 1,791

Quote:

Originally Posted by AvatarKava

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I show hole cards to loosen guys up. It takes so much work priming up Humph for a little action.

-'rilla

TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol

RD Olivaw

12-24-2004, 07:35 PM

#19 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Dallas,TX

Posts: 228

sometimes I will show once after I've had a nice rush of cards. For instance I win 4 pots in a row and really have had hands. The last one I'll show just to keep people from thinking I'm stealing. It'll keep your steal potential higher in the future. I rarely show bluffs unless it was an exceptional hand.

<Ripptyde> I either steal.....have the nuts...or fold

12-24-2004, 07:46 PM

#20 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

{This post has been removed}

a500lbgorilla

12-26-2004, 05:23 PM

#21 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: This room is a good place to be

Posts: 8,379

Quote:

Originally Posted by TylerK

Quote:

Originally Posted by AvatarKava

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

I show hole cards to loosen guys up. It takes so much work priming up Humph for a little action.

-'rilla

It's true. You just gotta know how to work it in there.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

Latest Poker News
KoRnholio	05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ... more at Poker Blogs »

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Trackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:13 PM.

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum

This is not a gambling website.

Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

Poker Forum

Beginners Circle

Would you have shown your Hole Cards in this situation?

Play for FREE and practice your game at...