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dalecooper
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03-23-2005, 05:50 PM
Post subject: Would you call in this situation?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Details deliberately kept kind of vague; I want a more general analysis than a specific answer (i.e. "well that guy was playing kind of tight, therefore his bet means..." etc.)
NL full ring game. You limp in with connectors; this time let's say QJ suited. The big blind min-raises, everyone who limped in calls this. Four see the flop.
The flop is 89x rainbow.
Big blind (first to act) bets half the pot. Next player folds. It comes to me, with one yet to act.
Call? or fold? (or even raise?)
My logic tells me to call. I have a gutshot draw and two overcards. The queens and jacks may or may not be clean outs, but the tens definitely are; ballpark estimate, I have 7 or so good outs. (Subtract a few for the possibility that making top pair won't give me the winning hand, and the possibility that a jack or queen would complete someone else's straight.) 7 outs won't justify calling a 1/2 pot bet by themselves, but the implied odds on the straight seem pretty good. I don't like the implied odds on the overcards though; even though I might win with those hands, they aren't strong enough to put someone all in and hope for a call.
Absent a specific read on the player who min-raised... what do you think?
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JeffreyGB
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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Any of your suit in that rainbow?
I'd probably call here, for just the reasons you mention. The extra 1/2 an out from a runner runner flush possilbility would make me smile too, even if it's not really affecting anything here.
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michael1123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 1,720
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In a ring game, probably. In a tournament, only if the blinds are rather small, or I have a big enough stack. I'm not looking to likely waste a large percentage of my stack on that call. Raising would be silly in most cases, I think.
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Jeffrey - yes, there is one, so I've got three to the flush.
michael - definitely a ring game. I doubt I'd make that call in a tourney either, unless it was the first round and blinds were miniscule.
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michael1123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 1,720
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Then yeah, certainly call, and hope that if you hit, someone is playing J7, 76, or has two pair or a set. If so, you're probably getting their stack, or at the very least a very nice pot.
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Aceofone
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 497
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It may be read dependent, if you catch your Ten the board will look like 89Tx, any fish can see a possible straight if you re-raise his turn bet hard. So it comes to whether or not you think he'll call your re-raise should you hit.
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Aceofone
It may be read dependent, if you catch your Ten the board will look like 89Tx, any fish can see a possible straight if you re-raise his turn bet hard. So it comes to whether or not you think he'll call your re-raise should you hit.
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True. In a way I think this plays better against good players, who won't put you on the gutshot (if they respect you as a player) and will probably have a few choice words for you after the hand.
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michael1123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 1,720
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They could easily put you on 76 for the open ended straight draw though, so that really doesn't work all that well.
But like I said, if the better or another caller behind you has 76 and you guys catch the T, you get his stack.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Gimme a ballpark on your chances of taking their stack if a 10 falls.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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michael1123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 1,720
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He said its a general situation, 'Rilla. Just give your damn answer.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by michael1123
He said its a general situation, 'Rilla. Just give your damn answer.
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Why don't you give me my gaht dahm ballpark!
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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BB smells like missed overcards. Calling with all them outs is the right move.
Can't worry about the guy behind you until he acts. Hope for him to call behind.
Problem here is, if the guy behind you has a hand to pay you off, he's almost certainly raising. BB probably doesn't have the hand to pay you off here.
More I think about it, the more I wonder "why bother?"
But that might just be sleepy old me. I'll touch upon it tomorrow, I'm sure.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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