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philly and the phanatics

03-01-2010, 12:10 AM Post subject: shitty wall

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2006

Posts: 1,109

philly and the phanatics is a jewel in the rough

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($5.02)
Hero (BB) ($4.59)
UTG ($4.76)
UTG+1 ($5.05)
MP1 ($4.57)
MP2 ($8.30)
CO ($5)
Button ($5.86)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 10

, 6

UTG calls $0.05, 6 folds, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.12) 10

, 5

, Q

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.12, UTG calls $0.12

Turn: ($0.36) 10

(2 players)
Hero bets $0.36, UTG raises to $0.72, Hero calls $0.36

River: ($1.80) 7

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1.50, Hero calls $1.50

Total pot: $4.80 | Rake: $0.32

villain is 24/5/20 through 40 hands

check flop?

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Roller

03-01-2010, 04:24 AM

#2 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: May 2009

Posts: 168

Roller has a little shameless behaviour in the past

Philly

Check Flop ?

Why not Check Raise on the River?

philly and the phanatics

03-01-2010, 04:43 AM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2006

Posts: 1,109

pretty positive im facing higher trips here his line isnt really that queeny but even then idk its whack i know thats why i posted it i guess

spoonitnow

03-01-2010, 04:55 AM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: IRC Chat Room

Posts: 5,406

If you were a dog I would beat you with a rolled up newspaper while yelling PUT YOUR OPPONENT ON A GODDAMN RANGE!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.

rpm

03-01-2010, 06:36 AM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: learnin'

Posts: 2,039

i prefer checking the flop because we only really get value from the straight draws in villain's range on that board. potting the turn i like, as any two clubs now call, and he may still call with any 66-99, as well as any queen or straight/flush draw. when he minraises you on the turn i doubt he has draws often, perhaps something like 55, AT, KT, QT, JT, T9, T8s (if he vpip's 25% he would probably be limping these because theyre suited), and QJ+ (raising it up to "see where he's at" in the hand) against which your equity is:

Board: Ts 5c Qd Tc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 63.906% 60.09% 03.81% 1560 99.00 { Td6d }
Hand 1: 36.094% 32.28% 03.81% 838 99.00 { 55, AQs, ATs, KQs, KTs, QTs+, JTs, T8s+, AQo, ATo, KQo, KTo, QTo+, JTo, T9o }

so obviously you can call his shitty minraise. as played i'm thinking his river betting range is pretty much only very strong hands - 55 or any ten (all of which have you beat, assuming he doesnt limp T2s-T5s). given that he bet 1.5 into 1.8, you are getting pot odds of roughly 2.2:1, meaning you have to have the best hand roughly 31% of the time. which i honestly dont believe you do. that said, your hand still has value against villain's range on the river, so i'd maybe prefer betting about $1.40 for value (i doubt he folds any of the range i assigned him on the turn to a river bet) and folding to a substantial raise.

jaytoi

03-01-2010, 06:55 AM

#6 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Nov 2009

Posts: 119

If he wasn't a dog you probably would too , right?

He's limping UTG, a bit LAgg so maybe he's doing this with SC type hands 78+ or big pairs QQ+, hoping for the limp reraise . PF, His limping range is wide (19 ish %) so something like {55+,A5s+,K9s+,Q9s+,J9s+,T9s,A9o+}.

On the flop probably check/call, because worse is just snapfolding and only better will call. It's a rainbow flop and there's minimal straight drawage (JK,J9). His continuing range at this point may be as wide as{QQ+,55,ATs,A6s,KTs,QTs,T9s+,QTo,QJ+,T9o+} though AQ and pairs KK+ will raise 95 percent of the time.

On the turn his range probably narrows down to {T9s+, T9o+, QQ, maybe AQ-QK and AA,KK}. Even against this range you have like 65 % equity because your 10 is a powerful blocker.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

2,948 games 0.005 secs 589,600 games/sec

Board: Ts 5c Qd Tc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.600% 31.89% 02.71% 940 80.00 { QQ+, 55, ATs, KTs, QTs, JTs, AQo, T9o }
Hand 1: 65.400% 62.69% 02.71% 1848 80.00 { T6s }

Looks like an obv call to the check minraise, and probably the river too as the 7 doesn't really change your equity much and you only need about 40% ish to call.

But yeh as played def just check /call if not check/fold flop.

Im ready this time.

jaytoi

03-01-2010, 06:58 AM

#7 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Nov 2009

Posts: 119

woop looks like i took too long to reply, lol

Im ready this time.

rpm

03-01-2010, 07:12 AM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: learnin'

Posts: 2,039

i attempted to find out at how wide villain's range has to be (starting at the river range i assigned him, and gradually inserting hands from the turn range in order of strength) and found that if he ever does this with AQ, a snap fold becomes a roughly break-even call. turns out that (i guess) due to the few possible combos of Tx available because you hold one, if villain bets the river with AQ we have a roughly break-even call:

Board: Ts 5c Qd Tc 7s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 31.579% 31.58% 00.00% 12 0.00 { Td6d }
Hand 1: 68.421% 68.42% 00.00% 26 0.00 { 55, AQs, ATs, KTs, QTs, JTs, T8s+, AQo, ATo, KTo, QTo, JTo, T8o+ }

obviously it's debatable if he limps AQ, and i still prefer the bet/fold line on river, but it's interesting to see how the blockers involved in this hand can make such a difference between a snap fold (you have 0% equity versus T8+, 55) and a break even call (you have 31% with the addition to that range of just 12 combos between AQo and AQs)

philly and the phanatics

03-01-2010, 04:29 PM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2006

Posts: 1,109

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpm

thanks rpm and jay loi great thought out responses, thanks again.

sorry spoony, havent been in the swing for a while and ranges never became natural for me (still working on it)

rpm

03-02-2010, 12:14 AM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2009

Location: learnin'

Posts: 2,039

Quote:

Originally Posted by philly and the phanatics

sorry spoony, havent been in the swing for a while and ranges never became natural for me (still working on it)

me neither. i'm terrible at forming ranges. but i'm getting better by doing exercises like the one i did around the hand in this thread.

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