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ponyboy
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10-19-2008, 02:06 PM
Post subject: Working on turn play - questions
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 379
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So I'm really trying to break down my play post flop and work on each piece. I have what I think is a good grasp of post flop play but then when it gets to the turn and river I still struggle.
Here's a typical scenario: Raise preflop with AKo UTG and flop air out of position. I c-bet 3/4 to pot sized and villain calls. Turn brings nothing. How often do you double barrel on the turn? Or is it better to check and let villain take control?
Now, let's reverse that - I have position on villain and he checks, I c-bet and he just calls. He checks again. Do you take the free card or try to rep the strong hand and take it down there? And if so, what size bet - I'm assuming PSB.
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ChrisBCritter
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Falmouth, ME
Posts: 781
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You're gonna hate this... It depends.
Seriously, it really does depend on a number of factors that you need to take into account. Is your villain normally aggressive? Passive? What is your image on the table? have you had to show any big bluffs? What does the board Actually look like? Is it coordinated? Did any reasonable draws hit on the turn?
Unfortunately, your "typical scenario" is just too General for there to be a hard-n-fast rule here. So, sometimes it would definitely be correct to bet the turn (and 3/4 to a full PSB would be correct), while other times it would be perfectly clear to check behind. What sucks is all the unclear situations between, which take experience and sometimes a little luck to make the right decision.
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Hey knucklehead! Bonk!
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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if villain calls my cbet and a scare card comes on the turn (that doesn't complete any draws) i'll fire a 3/4 bet. often times this gets them to lay down 2nd/3rd pair
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChrisBCritter
You're gonna hate this... It depends.
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generally speaking when i have initiative (first to open the action) i cbet dry, uncoordinated boards, strong made hands on draw heavy boards and draws of my own. As for the Turn, try to anticipate 'good' cards that you can bet (ones that improve your hand or hit your range more than your opponent's).
IP it's great to take stabs at the pot with overcards and such. Just be careful when facing a calling station unless you have a hand you can bet for value. I rarely continue on the Turn with complete air unless I really feel Villain has a weak to mediocre hand that I can push him off of on a later street by representing a stronger hand (very board and hand read dependent).
This is the part of the game I'm really working on right now too. It makes for really great discussion.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChrisBCritter
You're gonna hate this... It depends.
Seriously, it really does depend on a number of factors that you need to take into account. Is your villain normally aggressive? Passive? What is your image on the table? have you had to show any big bluffs? What does the board Actually look like? Is it coordinated? Did any reasonable draws hit on the turn?
Unfortunately, your "typical scenario" is just too General for there to be a hard-n-fast rule here. So, sometimes it would definitely be correct to bet the turn (and 3/4 to a full PSB would be correct), while other times it would be perfectly clear to check behind. What sucks is all the unclear situations between, which take experience and sometimes a little luck to make the right decision.
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killerkebab
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 149
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It does depend. Sometimes you'll have to forget firing a second barrel on the turn even though you know it screams "I have AK and I give up" 
Sometimes of course, it is so right to do it you'll get him to fold 2nd or 3rd pair and cheer. It depends on what read you have on the villain. What do you think he has, and how likely do you think he is to lay it down if he's ahead of you?
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