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hustall
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12-02-2004, 02:54 PM
Post subject: winning in the long run whitout bluffing?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1
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Is it possible to win (make money) in the long run whitout bluffing?
Im thinking about playing online only.
Maybee different depending on what level you play
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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yes, play limit.
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JJDylan
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 211
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bluffing online is pretty much useless anyways...especialy at party, theres always SOMEONE who's gonna call you down. The only time ive found bluffing to work online is when you're heads up, or against mabye 2 players and theyve both shown weakness thruout the hand.
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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First question is not "how" but why?
Are you averse to bluffing for some reason? Find it dishonest (if so, don't ever play poker)? Worried you can't pull it off (it gets easier with practice)? Can't stand the thought of losing money (if so, don't ever play poker)?
Or.. my favorite possibility:
Just an academic/theoretical question.
which leads us to "how"
If you never bluff at all, you will get long term pwned by people who are aware of this fact.
But it's still possible. You just have to hide the fact. Convince the table -- however you want -- that you sometimes bluff. Laugh, junk the cards, and say "beer hand" if you raise your kings PF and everyone folds.
On the whole, it's easier to convince the table that you sometimes bluff by just bluffing sometimes. Cf. "gets easier with practice", above.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by JJDylan
bluffing online is pretty much useless anyways...especialy at party, theres always SOMEONE who's gonna call you down. The only time ive found bluffing to work online is when you're heads up, or against mabye 2 players and theyve both shown weakness thruout the hand.
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Play higher limits, you can bluff every hand. You'll run into a lot of weak/tight players.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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mike4066
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,943
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Easily done at the lower limits.. .5/1 1/2 and probably 2/4.. I haven't played much 2/4 so I'm not sure about that one.
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JJDylan
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 211
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Play higher limits, you can bluff every hand. You'll run into a lot of weak/tight players.
-'rilla
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probably true...but some of us dont have the bankroll for such limits 
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zenbitz
yes, play limit.
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At any table I'm betting any Ace after a PFR into 3-4 or fewer players. At very few tables is this bet not profitable.
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koolmoe
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
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You can win without bluffing. As your opponents grow to know you, this leak will become bigger and bigger. On a site like Party, you'd be fine never bluffing. If you play somwhere like Absolute (where I've often sat down with folks I've played 500 or more hands with), you will start giving up win rate to your opponents that know you.
Bluffing is all about position and knowing your opponent. I don't do it particularly often, but I do it enough. I'm not particularly good at it either.
BTW, you need to know your opponent to bluff effectively. If you can't figure this out through the course of play, you need to get Pokertracker, use a game time window, and during your idle time start looking at stats like how many hands your opponents are taking to showdown. Knowing this information will allow you to bluff effectively when the board is right.
BTW, many people don't raise often enough preflop to bluff effectively, and they bluff way too much.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by koolmoe
BTW, many people don't raise often enough preflop to bluff effectively, and they bluff way too much.
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As a side note, quite often TAggs find themselves "bluffing with the best hand." So it's a matter of perspective...
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