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Anosmic
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02-09-2006, 02:38 PM
Post subject: Winning with crap hands
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 999
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Okay, first just to say I don't play for money (and have followed the PM v RM thread and the complaints/discussions there)
One of the things I believe is causing me big problems is that I don't know how to play band hands.
I'm playing playmoney sngs and "bragging rights" home games (sng structure).
Now if I get a nice hand, especially early and manage to get a fair number of chips I seem to do okay. When I can hang around a while people have said they found it hard to see what I'm doing because I change playing styles a little.
But too often, especially online, I'm not getting many hands I think playable.
Sometimes I get down to the last 2-3 just by sitting there and waiting; but usually with about a third of the chips of the other players.
When it's down to maybe 2-3 players I usually do okay. I'm more willing to make big bets with semi-weak hands because often the opponent has got a smilar hand. But early on the Q3o is surely going to get beaten by one of the players at the table, if there's always someone who will call with A2o?
It seems to me that good players can play the hands they're dealt and don't have to wait for good cards. But I don't see how.
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Staresy
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Following the Herd to 6-Max Land
Posts: 1,240
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the best way of winning with crap hands is to fold pre-flop and save your money/chips
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Warpe
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02-09-2006, 03:19 PM
Post subject: Re: Winning with crap hands
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#3 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Anosmic
...Sometimes I get down to the last 2-3 just by sitting there and waiting...It seems to me that good players can play the hands they're dealt and don't have to wait for good cards. But I don't see how.
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Learning how to be patient and camp for monsters is step one, and you sound like you've got a good handle on that. Only playing good cards will keep you out of trouble, so keep it up.
Next...start playing for real money. In play money you will always be up against against idiots who will play anything, and if you start playing marginal hands because everybody else seems to it will only form bad habits and hurt your game. I had to 'unlearn' a whole lot when I made the switch to real money, because there's really no comparison between the two. Once you're playing for real, then and only then will you start to really learn the game and make the kind of progress you want, imho.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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The best way of winning with bad hands is by playing tight and hard with good hands, making your opponents see you as a hard player who only shows down winning hands, and then loosening up and taking advatage of the fact with aggression and pressure.
This does, of course, assume that you are well-versed in vital concepts such as position, stack sizes and blind sizes - all of these things can and should make a big difference to what hands you play.
Play for real money - stick $150 into a site which offers $5 SNGs and $10NL and learn against players who take at least some hands seriously.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Good players can play the hands they are delt because they are playing against other, good thinking players who they can maneuver into folding or calling with weak hands when they need to.
Playing play money games is totally different because you cant maneuver the players. The only way to win is by playing good hands and showing them down. The good news is that enough people will call with worse hands to make that style plenty profitable enough.
You only need to start playing worse hands whenyou start playing against people who are good enough to not pay off your big hands
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
Good players can play the hands they are delt because they are playing against other, good thinking players who they can maneuver into folding or calling with weak hands when they need to.
Playing play money games is totally different because you can't maneuver the players. The only way to win is by playing good hands and showing them down. The good news is that enough people will call with worse hands to make that style plenty profitable enough.
You only need to start playing worse hands whenyou start playing against people who are good enough to not pay off your big hands
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fyp
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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cheers. fixed it
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Why are they called "crap" hands?
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Anosmic
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 999
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Why are they called "crap" hands?
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Because when I get them, they make me play crap 
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Anosmic
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 999
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Thanks guys,
That helped. Especially what you said, Warped, about picking up bad habits "cos everyone else is doin' it".
Not sure I'll be able to take the advice of sticking $150 somewhere... but maybe I can find an affordable level to learn something useful.
Cheers
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TLR
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,007
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If you play mostly Sng read the stickys in the Sng forum
Early on in Sng 'tight is right' but as the blinds increase and the field shortens you got to loosen up and pick up chips with marginal hands
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Anosmic
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 999
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TLR
If you play mostly Sng read the stickys in the Sng forum
Early on in Sng 'tight is right' but as the blinds increase and the field shortens you got to loosen up and pick up chips with marginal hands
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Yeah, I've read through those quite a lot.
'm not saying I've stopped making their "common beginners mistakes" but at least I know what they are.
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relayer
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 68
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Personally, I found that playing with free chips was not only not very helpful, it encouraged bad play. It took a long time---and a few busted bank rolls---to get over some very bad habits I developed in free games.
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fasin8ing
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02-17-2006, 04:53 PM
Post subject: Re: Winning with crap hands
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#14 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,063
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Anosmic
One of the things I believe is causing me big problems is that I don't know how to play band hands.
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How do you play a band hand?
I almost always raise with saxophones.
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Anosmic
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 999
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Does this mean you start all your anecdotes "...and this one time with band hand..."?
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