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Why not raise small A ofsuit from LP ?
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minSim
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11-17-2008, 11:29 AM
Post subject: Why not raise small A ofsuit from LP ?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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Okay, so we play micro stakes, 6max. I have seen quite some good players advocating not to raise small ofsuit aces, like A7o- from the CO or even BTN.
Take for example sauce's guide, but others have said has well.
(and some have said DO raise them)
Can someone give me some reasons for not raising them?
I know there's some reverse implied odds in them, but that can't be enough to not play them IP with initiative against bad players.
Fwiw, I'm still in the mindset that I like them, because I often get to see all 3 streets when IP and having initiative (preflop raise get's called, cbet get's called, turn checks through), so;
- I'm hitting my A pretty often.
- A high sometimes is good enough at showdown
- Implied odds from 2 pair, top trips, often 1 street TP value
- preflop folds and flop folds
edit: 6max
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raise as a steal
against your average fish who are too loose preflop (but not super-terrible post-flop) it's pretty much not worth it
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
raise as a steal
against your average fish who are too loose preflop (but not super-terrible post-flop) it's pretty much not worth it
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It's closer to a value-steal since we'll have position. And you want to play more hands with fish, so might as well take the ace to bolster your showdown value. If they tend towards passiveness, it should be an ez spot to play.
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Robb
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11-17-2008, 11:55 AM
Post subject: Re: Why not raise small A ofsuit from LP ?
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#4 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by minSim
Okay, so we play micro stakes. I have seen quite some good players advocating not to raise small ofsuit aces, like A7o- from the CO or even BTN.
Take for example sauce's guide, but others have said has well.
(and some have said DO raise them)
Can someone give me some reasons for not raising them?
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Yeah, they suck. 
If you think about showdown hands from opponents that make you think "DONK!!" and start typing notes, A4o against AQ is a big one. Happens a lot at the micros.
That said, I play 'em like IOPQ at 10nl and 25nl, and I raise them for steal value in any unraised pot (6max). Btn, I open raise almost any Ace (depends on blinds). In the CO, I only open raise A9+, slightly looser if the btn and blinds are tight. 6max is a better game for this type of action since it's looser, more stealy.
Postflop matters. You need to be able to get away from them if you're gonna play them. At FR, they will punish your weak Aces, especially if your postflop is poor.
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Monty3038
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11-17-2008, 11:55 AM
Post subject: Re: Why not raise small A ofsuit from LP ?
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#5 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 788
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by minSim
Okay, so we play micro stakes. I have seen quite some good players advocating not to raise small ofsuit aces, like A7o- from the CO or even BTN.
Take for example sauce's guide, but others have said has well.
(and some have said DO raise them)
Can someone give me some reasons for not raising them?
I know there's some reverse implied odds in them, but that can't be enough to not play them IP with initiative against bad players.
Fwiw, I'm still in the mindset that I like them, because I often get to see all 3 streets when IP and having initiative (preflop raise get's called, cbet get's called, turn checks through), so;
- I'm hitting my A pretty often.
- A high sometimes is good enough at showdown
- Implied odds from 2 pair, top trips, often 1 street TP value
- preflop folds and flop folds
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Ive seen arguments both ways. I recently got into the 'fancy play' habit after reading a number of books and articles that show a lot of ways to increase your profit margins, and at micro stakes I tried to implement them. One of the ways I did was to start playing all suited aces from MP on... calling from MP and raising from CO, BTN... well... I can't say it is solely to blame as I did this with other hands as well, but I took a huge variance downswing and have found that I don't like them unless the table is very passive.
What I was caught on, or someone (I think Spoon) said to me is the following... if you bet/raise these hands, what is your plan for later streets? What happens when your air c-bet gets re-raised? If you can stand that kind of action, then go for it, otherwise it can become a leak, like it was for me... I now only play them when I have a good feel for the texture of the table and think I can work them well.
(take all monty3038 advice with a grain of salt, I'm a micro stakes break even player, working towards profitability)
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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I meant 6max btw.
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Robb
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11-17-2008, 12:16 PM
Post subject: Re: Why not raise small A ofsuit from LP ?
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#7 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Monty3038
If you bet/raise these hands, what is your plan for later streets? What happens when your air c-bet gets re-raised?
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I think your stealing plan (Ax or other) is to cbet air a lot, cbet any piece of the flop, and fold to any pressure. Reads help. It's high variance, and you get caught showing down totally dominated crap in a 30 bb pot sometimes. But if you're not prepared to 2 barrel some of your steals, you have to steal less and with better values. Some notes on how regs behave in the blind battles is righteous.
I think blinds vs. blinds and BTN vs. blinds is one area where micro players really suck. A good aggressive mix of resteals (3bets), 2 barreling and steal/folding can be ++EV. HOWEVER, you're playing the player much more so than your cards imo. So reads and board texture might be important. If you're not good at this, the best way to learn is to really tighten up the stealing range and get aggressive, learn what will typically take down a pot against certain types of players, when they're playing back with strength. Then slowly add in hands to your stealing ranges as you gain experience.
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