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Why do so many people hate pocket jacks?

  
 
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TylerK
Old 11-16-2004, 06:13 PM     Post subject: Why do so many people hate pocket jacks? #1 (permalink)  
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Because it's one of the few hands that really requires you to play the game well, or what? Interested to hear your thoughts.
TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
 
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a500lbgorilla
Old 11-16-2004, 06:17 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I don't. I'd assume people think it's a high pocket pair and *deserves* to win. *shrug*

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michael1123
Old 11-16-2004, 06:25 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Yeah, I'm always happy to get them. Although I'm usually pretty happy to get 22 too.

I think the thing is some people think they're anywhere close to AA or KK and then shove or call all ins in coinflip at best situations (which is bound to end up losing for you in the wrong run), or even worse can't let it go with overcards on the flop. There's AA and KK and then a big dropoff to QQ. And then a monster drop off to JJ and TT, which I consider pretty equal to AK (which some people also dislike for what are probably similar reasons). And from there on down you're really only playing for a set, steal, or a very lucky low flop.
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elanto
Old 11-16-2004, 11:41 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Wow, im glad finally someone asked me this question. I hate JJ for the reason, first of all I dont play them that well, I have a big trouble letting go of Jacks and will sometimes make stupid calls that will lead to a lot of $ lost. My second reason is that I have an incredible amount of bad luck with them, about 1 month ao I noticed that I almost alweays lost with JJ so I decided to keep track of what my outcome was when i hit JJ....

Seen JJ: 25 times
Hit Set: 4 times
Hands Won After htting set: 1 (lost to 2 flushes and a str8)
Hands folded after the flop: 8 times (2 overcards have hit the board in each and every1 of this 8 times)
Hands lost wihtout hitting set: 10 (beaten by 2 pair, higher pair, etc)
Hands won with JJ without hitting a set: 3!!!!!!

Thats 4/25 hands won when i get pocket jacks!!! (16%)

And that Ty is the reason why I hate JJ so much...


-anto
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bigred
Old 11-17-2004, 02:42 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 Elanto, just to clarify your signature (if no one has yet) it is said by Matt Daemon's character in the movie Rounders.
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elanto
Old 11-17-2004, 02:51 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Oh ok, thanks big red, i just found this on a poker site and thought it was cool, didnt care that much to look it up. Now, do you think i should change uknown to whatever damons name was in rounders or leave it like that??


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<dwarfman> No I had sex for the first time on 23rd March 2005 at 11.56pm.
 
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bigred
Old 11-17-2004, 03:07 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 I'll make it easy for you, his character's name is Mike McDermott
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AJ
Old 11-17-2004, 01:40 PM #8 (permalink)  

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Elanto: I'm a little curious about the stats you posted below.

Seen JJ: 25 times
Hit Set: 4 times
Hands Won After htting set: 1 (lost to 2 flushes and a str8)
Hands folded after the flop: 8 times (2 overcards have hit the board in each and every1 of this 8 times)
Hands lost wihtout hitting set: 10 (beaten by 2 pair, higher pair, etc)
Hands won with JJ without hitting a set: 3!!!!!!

Particularly, the 4 times you hit the set of Jacks, did you attempt to slow play them to a board with 2 or three straight or flush cards? I acknowledge that there is a temptation to slow play a set to build the pot, however, to a scary board this can be fatal. I'm not sure if you're talking about NL or limit here. I play mostly NL. When I flop a set and the board is scary, I push hard so that anyone on a draw has to pay dearly to try to make it.

By the way - I don't much like pocket Jacks either
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elanto
Old 11-17-2004, 06:45 PM #9 (permalink)  
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I only play NL, and I have to accept that one of the three time I lost after hitting the set i slow played my Jacks, but thwe other two i pushed after the flop and i always got one caller that was on a draw, of course he later hit...


-anto
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dalecooper
Old 11-17-2004, 07:58 PM #10 (permalink)  
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I like pocket jacks. I'll usually give it a small pre-flop raise and then hope to flop unders, or maybe make the set if I'm lucky. If it's all unders I bet it hard, like a top pair/top kicker type of hand. If the board gets scary I bet harder. If I make a set, I don't usually let it get past the turn; on a bad board, I'll bet huge on the flop and make them pay right up front. That strategy has to be a part of every profitable player's repertoire. If you have a made hand that's good but vulnerable (trips, two pair, even a straight) - don't slowplay. You'll kick yourself for it later.

On the other hand, if the board has one or two overs on it and no jacks - just fold it. Let it go. The winner is going to have a better hand than you, so don't bother.
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dalecooper
Old 11-17-2004, 07:59 PM #11 (permalink)  
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On the subject of that quote from Rounders, that's just a quote or paraphrase of a poker saying that is almost as old as the game. It's been in circulation for years. A lot of the notable quotes in that movie are not 100% original. (Still love the movie though.)
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a500lbgorilla
Old 11-17-2004, 08:01 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalecooper
I like pocket jacks. I'll usually give it a small pre-flop raise and then hope to flop unders, or maybe make the set if I'm lucky. If it's all unders I bet it hard, like a top pair/top kicker type of hand. If the board gets scary I bet harder. If I make a set, I don't usually let it get past the turn; on a bad board, I'll bet huge on the flop and make them pay right up front. That strategy has to be a part of every profitable player's repertoire. If you have a made hand that's good but vulnerable (trips, two pair, even a straight) - don't slowplay. You'll kick yourself for it later.

On the other hand, if the board has one or two overs on it and no jacks - just fold it. Let it go. The winner is going to have a better hand than you, so don't bother.
One problem that people have with playing pocket jacks is that they play it against the board. You've also got to play it against your opponent. They may not even have overs. The may flop an under set, you've got to sniff it out and work from there.

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zenbitz
Old 11-17-2004, 09:16 PM #13 (permalink)  
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this is limit, but it just happened to me and is apropos.

I get JJ UTG, PFR get 2 callers.
Flop is AKX - calling station from SB bets out.

Now, it's _possible_ that he has X pair, but he called a raise, and even a calling station occasially has AX, and KX is way common. Plus the guy is super passive, so even betting out 1 SB is a huge "tell"

I had to lay it down - to a highly inferior player (I mean we are talking >80% V$IP). I'll get him later.
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DBL0SVN
Old 11-18-2004, 04:52 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Elanto, your figures on Jacks got me thinking. I suspect you are more likely to get your set of Jacks (or queens) cracked by a straight than if you had a low PP that made a set. Why? Because most people in the hand are likely to be in with high cards so a J or Q on the flop will help towards a straight more often than low cards on the flop. Anyone agree/disagree?
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DBL0SVN
Old 11-18-2004, 04:52 PM #15 (permalink)  
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sorry, double post.
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