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Fenian
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08-05-2004, 04:14 AM
Post subject: Why did I lose this hand?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3
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This is my 1st post, and I need some help answering a question.
I played a hand to the river and called an all in on a Ace high flush that was on the table. The community cards were as follows
10, 8, 5, K, A all Clubs
My hand was a K Diamonds, and 5 Spades
My opponent had Q Clubs, and 8 Hearts
Now I know if both players have a flush the higher suited card wins, but if we both had an Ace high Flush , why did he win the pot 
Thanks
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michael1123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 1,720
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He had the higher flush.
You had an AKT high flush, and he had an AKQ high flush. Just like with a hand with no pairs, its not just the highest card that determines hand ranking. Every card is used.
Now on that board, say he had a club below 8 (or even two), you'd split. With the Q, he wins.
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Fenian
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by michael1123
He had the higher flush.
You had an AKT high flush, and he had an AKQ high flush. Just like with a hand with no pairs, its not just the highest card that determines hand ranking. Every card is used.
Now on that board, say he had a club below 8 (or even two), you'd split. With the Q, he wins.
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I guess I've always played wrong then because if both of us had a club, but the board made it Ace high, we would both have an Ace high flush, and split. I didn't think the higher card won unless it was above the highest in the community cards, i.e. I had a 3, he had a 6, but the Ace high flush on the board gave us both an Ace high flush to split.
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michael1123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rochester Hills, MI
Posts: 1,720
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Nah, an AKQJ6 flush beats an AKQJ3 flush. You use all 5 cards to determine ranking.
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heatman
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 312
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fenian
I guess I've always played wrong then because if both of us had a club, but the board made it Ace high, we would both have an Ace high flush, and split. I didn't think the higher card won unless it was above the highest in the community cards, i.e. I had a 3, he had a 6, but the Ace high flush on the board gave us both an Ace high flush to split.
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The first time I played hold 'em I almost lost a pot because the people I was playing with were convinced if there was a tie that you went to the sixth card. The hand was something like:
me: KJ
him: KQ
Board: AK883
They said he had two pair with AQ kicker. I had to make them go to the internet to check it.
They also dealt the first card to the UTG all night long, and I didn't know any better at the time. One guy tried to correct them but they were all "experts".
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"Limit poker is a science, but no-limit is an art..."
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Fenian
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3
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So I guess the moral of the story is, no matter how long you've played, you still might not know everything. I guess the danger in playing community flushes is that your card could be lower than the next guys, just like higher and lower kickers when it comes to pairs.
Thanks for the responses.
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Chizad
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2
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I came across this same problem in a tournament last night.
There were 4 clubs on the board, two of which were A and K.
I had an 8 of clubs.
Assuming the other 2 people still in at this point had clubs as well, and I could still possibly bully people out, I went all in, assuming I would split the pot with whoever stayed in with me.
We flipped our cards over, and the only person that stayed in with me had the Queen of clubs, and she started reaching for the chips.
I said, "We split them, cause we both had Ace high flushes", and of course she disagreed. I know for a fact that for example Party Poker.net splits the pot when this occurs. I'm pretty sure (although I can't say for 100% sure) that I've seen this happen on tournaments on TV.
Anyway, they asked the tournament organizer and he said the same thing. It goes down the line to the next card. So I had to leave the table.
I still think it was bullshit though.
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DrNoChance
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 411
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chizad
I came across this same problem in a tournament last night.
There were 4 clubs on the board, two of which were A and K.
I had an 8 of clubs.
Assuming the other 2 people still in at this point had clubs as well, and I could still possibly bully people out, I went all in, assuming I would split the pot with whoever stayed in with me.
We flipped our cards over, and the only person that stayed in with me had the Queen of clubs, and she started reaching for the chips.
I said, "We split them, cause we both had Ace high flushes", and of course she disagreed. I know for a fact that for example Party Poker.net splits the pot when this occurs. I'm pretty sure (although I can't say for 100% sure) that I've seen this happen on tournaments on TV.
Anyway, they asked the tournament organizer and he said the same thing. It goes down the line to the next card. So I had to leave the table.
I still think it was bullshit though.
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Not bullshit, and Party Poker does it the same way. As has already been menioned in this thread a few times, all 5 cards are looked at to break a tie. She had an ace flush with a queen kicker. You only had an ace flush with an 8. You lose that hand at any tourney where the organizer has a clue and at any online site.
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lonnie
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 923
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I wish I could find people to play me that don't know how to read a poker hand. That would rock.
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Xianti
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: facebook.com/xianti
Posts: 5,289
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{Moved from Hold'em Hand Histories}
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Chizad
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DrNoChance
Not bullshit, and Party Poker does it the same way. As has already been menioned in this thread a few times, all 5 cards are looked at to break a tie. She had an ace flush with a queen kicker. You only had an ace flush with an 8. You lose that hand at any tourney where the organizer has a clue and at any online site. |
Not Party Poker. I may have been in the wrong as far as official rules, but I know for a 100% fact that Party Poker splits the pot in this situation. It's happened uncountable times to me.
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DrNoChance
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 411
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chizad
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DrNoChance
Not bullshit, and Party Poker does it the same way. As has already been menioned in this thread a few times, all 5 cards are looked at to break a tie. She had an ace flush with a queen kicker. You only had an ace flush with an 8. You lose that hand at any tourney where the organizer has a clue and at any online site. |
Not Party Poker. I may have been in the wrong as far as official rules, but I know for a 100% fact that Party Poker splits the pot in this situation. It's happened uncountable times to me. |
Show me a hand history. If there was a higher flush on the board than either of you could make with your hole cards, it's a split pot. Only then.
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lonnie
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 923
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Chizad, you're wrong on this one.
The only way a flush is a split pot is if NEITHER of the player's pocket cards are in play.
Example:
Board: 7 J 9 Q K - all clubs
Player 1: 2 3 - both clubs
Player 2: 5 6 - both clubs
In this case it IS a split pot because neither player's pocket cards are being used to make the best 5 card hand.
Using the same board,
Player 1: 8 3 - both clubs
Player 2: 10 6 - both clubs
Player 2 will win this pot because the 10 is higher than the 8 of clubs. And yes, this includes Party Poker.
If you do have a split like that occur again, please copy the hand history and post it here. Party Poker needs to be informed about the error in their software. 
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johnnyawe
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,064
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by heatman
The first time I played hold 'em I almost lost a pot because the people I was playing with were convinced if there was a tie that you went to the sixth card. The hand was something like:
me: KJ
him: KQ
Board: AK883
They said he had two pair with AQ kicker. I had to make them go to the internet to check it.
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Same thing happened to me. I think I had just won a pot where I had to explain the concept of kickers to everyone, and now a few hands later I was claiming that I was entitled to half the pot because the kicker didn't matter. Luckily I was able to make them see the light.
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chizad
Not Party Poker. I may have been in the wrong as far as official rules, but I know for a 100% fact that Party Poker splits the pot in this situation. It's happened uncountable times to me. |
it's always a good idea to backup your claims with hand histories.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,204
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chizad
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DrNoChance
Not bullshit, and Party Poker does it the same way. As has already been menioned in this thread a few times, all 5 cards are looked at to break a tie. She had an ace flush with a queen kicker. You only had an ace flush with an 8. You lose that hand at any tourney where the organizer has a clue and at any online site. |
Not Party Poker. I may have been in the wrong as far as official rules, but I know for a 100% fact that Party Poker splits the pot in this situation. It's happened uncountable times to me. |
I know for an infinity+1% fact that you're wrong, and you're a poo poo head. So there 
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Humphrind
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 1,887
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
I know for an infinity+1% fact that you're wrong, and you're a poo poo head. So there |
Whoa Chizad. You can argue all day, but you can't argue with infinity +1%. That's unbeatable.
What we have learned:
Kickers count in poker when the highest part of the hand is the same.
Learning is a great thing, even if you are correcting a long-time mistake, it's still learning.
Chizad is a poo poo head.
Fnord's little brother occationally gets on his computer and posts. 
BTW - Fnord, your little brother was badmouthing AJ suited and offsuit, and Omaha. I thought you'd want to know. 
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I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,204
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Humphrind
BTW - Fnord, your little brother was badmouthing AJ suited and offsuit, and Omaha. I thought you'd want to know.
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I've never badmouthed AJ suited.
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fishstick
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Posts: 1,405
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Humphrind
BTW - Fnord, your little brother was badmouthing AJ suited and offsuit, and Omaha. I thought you'd want to know.
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I've never badmouthed AJ suited. |
but he still has a bad omahattitude!
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i hate what i have become to escape what i hated being...
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FyrFytr998
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Milford,Ct.
Posts: 1,412
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by fishstick
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Humphrind
BTW - Fnord, your little brother was badmouthing AJ suited and offsuit, and Omaha. I thought you'd want to know.
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I've never badmouthed AJ suited. |
but he still has a bad omahattitude! |
Come on fishstick. You can do better than that. Is your thong chaffing or something?
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fishstick
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Posts: 1,405
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by FyrFytr998
Quote:
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Originally Posted by fishstick
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Humphrind
BTW - Fnord, your little brother was badmouthing AJ suited and offsuit, and Omaha. I thought you'd want to know.
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I've never badmouthed AJ suited. |
but he still has a bad omahattitude! |
Come on fishstick. You can do better than that. Is your thong chaffing or something? |
give me a break - i'm on medication! 8-)
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i hate what i have become to escape what i hated being...
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AllinLife
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 530
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simply put:
BEST 5 CARD WINS
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"Is there any chance I'm going to lay this 9-high baby down? That's really not my style."
- Gus Hansen
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