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hankr
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02-21-2005, 01:45 PM
Post subject: Where are the Bigger Profits; Ring or Tourneys?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 34
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My game is developing with my (still small) bankroll now 10 times my initial start. Right now, I'm playing 5-10 cent NL ring games exclusively, with consistent success.
As I build my bankroll and my skills, I am curious where I should be concentrating... ring games or tourneys, for best profit potential.
I've read where one should "specialize", and my VERY LIMITED tourney experience confirms that this is a VERY different game than ring. So I have no problem playing one or the other exclusively.
But which? For a given bankroll, say $250, do you more-seasoned players think ring or tourney play offers the greater profit potential? And if tourneys, would you suggest SNGs or multi-table, or both?
I understand if I switch to tourney play, I'll have a learning curve. But that "investment" is not a concern if tourney-play is generally considered to provide better long-term profit potential.
Thanks
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TylerK
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
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Play both. You can go on decent slides between big tournament wins, so it's nice to make a steady profit at the ring games to cover your tournament buyins.
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TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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hankr
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 34
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Playing both seems to violate the "specialize" advice I've seen so often, and which just makes good sense to me.
I'd rather be in the 90th percentile skill-wise in my chosen game / stakes, than in the 75th percentile skill-wise in both ring and tourney settings. My limited tourney experience has convinced me that it really is different from ring games. And since both tourneys and rings are ALWAYS available, it just seems better to play one or the other exclusively to maximize my returns.
I'm willing to make the "learning curve" investment to switch to tourneys... if the general concensus is that tourneys offer greater profits once one is in that 90th percentile skill-wise.
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Staresy
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Following the Herd to 6-Max Land
Posts: 1,240
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I think that you should pick the area you think you are best and most profitable at.
I have tried a little of each and I generally prefer (because I seem to make the most money) playing SnGs. I do like the potential earnings in MTTs (a win can pay up to 100x the entry fee) and my general rule is that I will "pay" for an MTT out of my winnings from SnGs.
However, the reason I make money on SnGs is because I think this is best suited to my playing style given what I have learnt.
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Aces
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 832
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I also prefer SNGs to MTTs or ring games. I'm still profitable in ring(NL), but not as much as SNGs. Combined with a limited amount of time to play, I generally save my ring game play for working off bonuses. That's one way to work on ring while minimizing risk.
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DavSimon
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Mount Holly, NC
Posts: 813
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I am a tournament player exclusively....which encompases SnG and MTT. You can make a lot of money playing tournies and ring, specializing is important for many people since they have difficulty switching between ring and tourney play (myself included) however, some people have no trouble transitioing back and forth TylerK being one of those people.
In the end you have to figure out what kind of person/player you are and how you want to spend your playing time. If you enjoy ring and like the flexibility of being able to start and stop playing at your convienence then you should stick with that. If you like the excitement of tourney play and have enough time to devote several hours at a time then tournies may be the way to go. The only way to make a lot of money at either is devoting the necessary time per week. But there really are not clear lines defining which type of player makes more. Fnord and Soupie and Rada have made about the same amount of money this month. Fnord (LHE Ring) makes his money each session,day,week. Rada and Soupie (Tourney) make a whole lot in a single day or two then go a week or more without a significant profit....so the question is: What do you enjoy, what can you mentally handle and what can your bankroll handle?
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TylerK
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DavSimon
some people have no trouble transitioing back and forth TylerK being one of those people.
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Yup, I am equally capable of being constantly outdrawn in either format! :P
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TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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wobbler
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 134
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I think that even if you specialize, it is good to cross train.
A great swimmer doesn't ONLY swim. He also runs, lifts weights etc. While he won't be competitive in those other sports, they will help him swim better. This probably goes for poker as well. (...ok, lifting won't improve your holdem  , but you know what I mean)
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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I like improving on ring because you need that to get your bonuses. I was losing my bonuses before earning them because my ring games sucked. I was too aggressive. I'm better now after practice. I have always done better at SNG's but they take longer and if you have a short period of time to play then ring is good.
Once you are proficient in both types of play, it may be wise to specialize to maximize profits.
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koolmoe
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
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What do you like? What are you good at?
I prefer ring, but it can be a grind. I mix it up with a tourney (higher buy in MTT's mostly) here and there, but my tourney play is just break even or so.
When I started, I played SnG's almost exclusively, but I soon found ring games to be more profitable for me.
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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i would say SNG, because it doesn't let retards chase flush draws with 2,10 suited when their entire stack is at risk. Of course, people still do it, but SNG is definitely more skillful than cashgames.
downside of SNG is, there are certain points where you *have* to get good cards or you will not get money, simple and plain. Nobody won a tournament by bluffing everyone every time.
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wobbler
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 134
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Quote:
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i would say SNG, because it doesn't let retards chase flush draws with 2,10 suited
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 Surely, these 'retards' chasing flush draws with bad pot odds is what makes rings games profitable.
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SteveO
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 755
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Cash games should always be your base and starting point, IMO.
Cash games are always available especially in B&M. Cash games are a little less complicated. To be a winner in tournaments whether it is MTT or SNG requires an understanding of some additional concepts and tactics. So there is more to learn to be a winning tournament player.
Another consideration when building your BR is that it will take forever to clear a bonus with tournament fees. You need to jump into the ring to meet those raked hand requirements.
On the plus side for tournaments is the limited risk. Some sites you can have buy-ins in the $1-5 range. You can play an hour's worth of hands for a limited buy-in, whereas you could lose 4 buy-ins in a cash game if things go horribly wrong.
Personally, I prefer to play both. I also play NL, LIMIT, MTT and a smattering of SNG's although I have begun to phase out the SNG's unless they are sattleites.
By "specializing" that really means sticking to a particular structure and game, such as limit v. NL; and Stud v. Omaha v. Hold'em. If you know how to play reasonably well, mixing both tournaments and ring games will not hurt your game in the least. However, it is not recommended that you play an hour of stud and then jump into a PL Omaha tournament. That can be fun but it is difficult and not recommended to maximize your profit.
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