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Kits
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07-30-2006, 06:30 AM
Post subject: When is it time for 6max?
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 129
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So far I've racked up 6000 hands at $25NL full ring. During that time I haven't even thought about the 6 max tables.
Can someone give me some advice about when it is appropriate to give 6max a go? Obviously it involves playing hands with some not so premium cards, playing well out of the blinds and having good judgement regarding when you are ahead or beat.
When did you make the transition? Did you stay at the same limit? How did it all go? 
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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I used to play exclusively full ring, then I played about half and half, and lately, I've played exlusively 6max. My biggest reason for this is simply the ability to play more hands per hour. Now that said, I'd still feel very comfortable playing full ring, and I'll still bring up 1 or 2 of these tables.
I guess what it really comes down to is personal preference to be honest. Although, if you really want to take your game to a new level, 6max is the place to start.
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Kits
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 129
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Thanks Lukie. Do you open up the number of hands you are willing to play with?
Are A rag suited something you will play? Do you raise with small-mid pocket pairs instead of limping?
Is there any guidance around this kind of stuff for 6 max located on FTR?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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lukies range is 99+ AKs
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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There is a forum for 6max (shorthanded) NL holdem. Personally I've never played a single hand of full ring. Jump in the pool and hope you can swim 
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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pgil
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
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table/opponent selection is much more important in 6max in my experience. at a full ring table at 25nl you arent likely to find that the table revolves around a single player, but this is not always the case at 6max, and its fun to be that player, but not all that fun to be one of the others at the table.
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"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
lukies range is 99+ AKs
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Lukie's stats (in their entirety) playing in Renton's main game (party 1/2NL)
I bet I could sustain a 10ptbb/100 winrate in this game over 100k hands.
meh, that's probably too high, but I bet I could be close.
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kits
Thanks Lukie. Do you open up the number of hands you are willing to play with?
Are A rag suited something you will play? Do you raise with small-mid pocket pairs instead of limping?
Is there any guidance around this kind of stuff for 6 max located on FTR?
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There is obviously a change from full ring to 6max, but it's really not as drastic of a change as some make it out to be. You can still play tight, solid poker and be a consistent winner, and anybody who tells you differently is a fool. Now of course the set-hunting nit will get overrun on a competant table, but there's a big difference between a nit and a solid tight-agressive player. I would consider myself the ladder, and it's not really close either.
As far as your questions about Axs and low pairs, they are very situation dependant. I'm generally raising all pairs in all unraised pots (outside of the blinds), but occasionally you have to find a limp with them, particularly against active players that put up resistance in small-medium pots but won't play big ones without the goods, vs shortstacks (particularly to your left), and a whole bunch of other factors, such as your image. Axs I'm usually folding in EP at a 6 handed table, and I'm trying to raise it in late. It really depends though, sometimes I'll open raise it from EP and limp behind limpers in LP, it's really situation dependant. I wouldn't really try to put a system down so to speak as much as I'd try to figure out when it makes sense to play these hands and how.
Quote:
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Is there any guidance around this kind of stuff for 6 max located on FTR?
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I'm sure you could dig up a guide on it somewhere, but the most useful thing would be to just play lots and lots of hands. Posting hands is also a good idea. I've comtemplated writing a 6max guide but there's just an incredible amount of things that I want to discuss that I just can't really explain because shorthanded NL ring is so complicated and often times small details can drastically change what the correct play is.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jackvance
Jump in the pool and hope you can swim |
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lukie
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Renton
lukies range is 99+ AKs
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Lukie's stats (in their entirety) playing in Renton's main game (party 1/2NL)
I bet I could sustain a 10ptbb/100 winrate in this game over 100k hands.
meh, that's probably too high, but I bet I could be close. |
my winrate is converging toward 4ptbb/100, but you are probably a better player than i, so 6-8 wouldn't be unrealistic.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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btw lukie if thats full ring our stats are almost identical, but its sixmax isn't it?
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yorib
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oak Park, IL
Posts: 281
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Kits: I started playing full ring ($5NL) until I got kicked off the beginners tables at Party, then went to Paradise and played about 10K hands at 10NL (full) and 25NL (full) with reasonable success. I too was always curuious about playing 6-max (5-max at Paradise), but took the leap after Party gave me $30 to screw around with and I was constantly running into nits at full ring. From then on I've played (almost) exclusively $25 5-max (at Paradise) and love it. The most important thing I read about 6-max is that you can really take advantage of the weaker players. I've also found that I've gotten a lot better at reading hands, managing pot sizes and aggression. I hihgly recommend giving it a shot and seeing if it's for you. (At first only try 1-2 tables so you can really give it your all)
Good Luck.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by yorib
The most important thing I read about 6-max is that you can really take advantage of the weaker players.
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This is the key point imho. Full ring favors nutcamping strategies.. which is a good place to start probably if you're new to poker, but if you're good at poker and you want to use your edge over other players, I think MTTs and 6max are the place to be.. because in both of those there is a lot more pressure on people to act.
(don't know about SNGs, only played like 3-4 in my life)
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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yorib
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Oak Park, IL
Posts: 281
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JV: The best part is, you don't even have to be *that* good. (I don't think that I am.) Just recognizing that a guy is playing way too many hands, and taking them too far, and then when you get a hand that hits the flop hard, really punishing him.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Ugh. Immense success at 6-max is something that transcends starting hand requirements. It's about getting people hooked on hands and draining them with strange straights, trips or two pair. It's about taking deceptive lines that get there. It's about putting people in line or denying value to rocks. It's about knowing how to extract value from a flush, or how to play overpairs efficiently. It's about value betting marginal hands in the right spots. It's about inducing bluffs, and then snapping them off with weak hands. It's often ballz and a tight plan of action. It's a game of balanced lines to supplement unpredictability. It's less about not making a mistake, and more about forcing people into them.
6 Max = Proactive
The bottom line is if you're still thinking about starting hand requirements, you won't make the max from 6-max. If you ever watched me at a 6-max table, you would see me sitting on 7+ buy ins while 3 people bitch about the 7T offsuit I just raised UTG and won a huge pot with. People calling me "lucky", or "fish", while buying in again.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Kits
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 129
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rondavu
Ugh. Immense success at 6-max is something that transcends starting hand requirements. It's about getting people hooked on hands and draining them with strange straights, trips or two pair. It's about taking deceptive lines that get there. It's about putting people in line or denying value to rocks. It's about knowing how to extract value from a flush, or how to play overpairs efficiently. It's about value betting marginal hands in the right spots. It's about inducing bluffs, and then snapping them off with weak hands. It's often ballz and a tight plan of action. It's a game of balanced lines to supplement unpredictability. It's less about not making a mistake, and more about forcing people into them.
6 Max = Proactive
The bottom line is if you're still thinking about starting hand requirements, you won't make the max from 6-max. If you ever watched me at a 6-max table, you would see me sitting on 7+ buy ins while 3 people bitch about the 7T offsuit I just raised UTG and won a huge pot with. People calling me "lucky", or "fish", while buying in again.
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I love this stuff. You're posts are always extremely insightful and I always find myself nodding my head when reading them. Thanks - great stuff.
I took the plunge and had a quick bash at 6max. On the whole I have found the experience quite enjoyable. I've been trapped a few times and one of the hardest things I have found is trying to put my opponent on a hand. On the other hand against the right players you can stack them with simple reads and good strategic play. I like that.
The most important thing I have recognised is that I have to play 6max to become a better player. It shows up all my leaks and magnifies my stupid plays. It makes me more aggressive and as Rondavu said - more proactive.
I've had a little more variance than full ring but I expected it and my bankroll can handle it. Overall when time permits I look forward to racking up a lot more hands and see how I fair.
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