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When there is no big blind posted?

  
 
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Irisheyes
Old 03-29-2006, 07:17 PM     Post subject: When there is no big blind posted? #1 (permalink)  
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OK I don't know if this example makes it completely clear whats going on here but basically there is no big blind posted in this hand. The guy who was supposed to post it has just hit the 'sit out' button. So there is $1 in the pot and it's at least $2 for me to enter the pot. I must lay $2 for a chance to win $1. This is 1/2 NL by the way (200NL)

This being the case, on a scale of 0 to 100, 0 being the worst holdem hand, 100 being the best, what is the minimum rated hand I should come in with?

Or if you wanna just name hands thats cool too!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hand #249484232 at table: Table TH 404
Started: Wed Mar 29 21:04:02 2006

nikolis1 is at seat 1 with 161.10
wori007 is at seat 2 with 276.25
A'Dreng is at seat 3 with 70.86
neuhier is at seat 4 with 51.70
insanity31 is at seat 5 with 305.80
|Maria| is at seat 6 with 203.30
bballs is at seat 7 with 177.00
Zoli2 is at seat 8 with 187.45
All-in4Fun is at seat 9 with 326.00
havoc.. is at seat 10 with 180.00

neuhier posts the small blind 1.00
insanity31 is sitting out

All-in4Fun: a hand

Pre-flop:

|Maria|: Fold
bballs: Fold
Zoli2: Fold
All-in4Fun: ????
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drmcboy
Old 03-29-2006, 07:35 PM #2 (permalink)  
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BankItDrew
Old 03-29-2006, 07:41 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Irisheyes
Old 03-29-2006, 07:44 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Far from it, its standard where I play.
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Demiparadigm
Old 03-29-2006, 09:49 PM #5 (permalink)  
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How much of your profit do you think comes from the blinds?
Where does the rest of your profit come from?
How much will the loss of the big blind affect this secondary profit?
To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
 
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siknd
Old 03-29-2006, 10:16 PM #6 (permalink)  
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i always considered that writing on 'the blinds drive the play' (ie sklansky and caro and whoever) to be more central to limit play (and tourneys of course). in NL, id be happy playing with no blinds whatsoever. and it wouldnt change my opening requirements.
'If you think a weakness can be turned into a strength, I hate to tell you this, but that's another weakness. '
 
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Demiparadigm
Old 03-29-2006, 10:27 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siknd
in NL, id be happy playing with no blinds whatsoever. and it wouldnt change my opening requirements.

This would be a leak.

“In a game without blinds, the sucker is the first guy to open without AA"

DUCY?

However, your thinking is not horrible. In most NL games many players play as though there were larger antes to fight for. The effect of this is to create a virtual ante that consists of the extra dead money thrown into the pot each round.
To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
 
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siknd
Old 03-29-2006, 11:05 PM #8 (permalink)  
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“In a game without blinds, the sucker is the first guy to open without AA"

when ace-ace is not present, KK is pretty good. and both those hands are kinda rare, so even AK might be okay to open with. and so on and so forth.

as case in point, i rarely blind steal in cash games. if im button and its folded to me i:

1. raise good hands
2. limp weaker hands due to my positional advantage

i really dont see the point in making it 3x to go with J7 just to occasionally pick up 1.5 bets.
'If you think a weakness can be turned into a strength, I hate to tell you this, but that's another weakness. '
 
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Pelion
Old 03-29-2006, 11:16 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demiparadigm

“In a game without blinds, the sucker is the first guy to open without AA"
True but in a game without blinds where people are already playing lesser hands than AA you are a sucker if you dont join in. Sure it will be profitable to wait for AA then push allin preflop, but it will be more profitable to play poker with some other hands too.

If you know people are playing AA-JJ + AK then you are certainly justified in playing AA AND KK. You will occasionally lose to AA with KK, but you will beat QQ,JJ and AK more often.

Applying it to this situation if you are in a game where most players are donks calling down with weak aces, or mid PP's when the A has flopped then you dont need to change your requirements at all. If you are in a game where there is alot of blind stealing going on then there are 2 possibilities

1) People might decide they dont care about this hand since there is so little to fight for. You can raise with a wider range
2) People might decide that other people are thinking "1" so having a smaller blind actually makes them more aggressive.

I suspect most games wont actually change when a single hand is played with this amount of reduced dead money in the pot.

I guess the proper way to compare if you should significantly change your play would be to compare the average pot size with the size of the blind. If you are seeing an average of 20BB pots each hand then I dont see why the play would change at all.

edit: If your table selection is any good there wont be much blnd stealing going on.
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siknd
Old 03-29-2006, 11:43 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
edit: If your table selection is any good there wont be much blnd stealing going on.
are you saying that the ability to steal blinds is an indicator of skill?

im not sure about this. i much prefer to play against aggressive opponents than passive ones.
'If you think a weakness can be turned into a strength, I hate to tell you this, but that's another weakness. '
 
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Warpe
Old 03-30-2006, 12:05 AM     Post subject: Re: When there is no big blind posted? #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irisheyes
what is the minimum rated hand I should come in with?
Same standard as you would limp in with from UTG, because you are UTG.



 
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Pelion
Old 03-30-2006, 11:02 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siknd
Quote:
edit: If your table selection is any good there wont be much blnd stealing going on.
are you saying that the ability to steal blinds is an indicator of skill?

im not sure about this. i much prefer to play against aggressive opponents than passive ones.
No. But im saying that games that are loose passive preflop and then have people overvaluing hands like TP postflop are eaaaasy.

If there is alot of preflop raising then you cant draw to your fluke straight.

Of course if there is alot of preflop raising and reraising with AJo and 88 then that is a good table too.
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Fnord
Old 03-30-2006, 02:58 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siknd
i always considered that writing on 'the blinds drive the play' (ie sklansky and caro and whoever) to be more central to limit play (and tourneys of course). in NL, id be happy playing with no blinds whatsoever. and it wouldnt change my opening requirements.
In NLHE the sucker is the blinds. I view NLHE as a game where the amount of dead money in the pot fluctuates wildly. Hence, so do my starting hands.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Pelion
Old 03-30-2006, 03:10 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by siknd
i always considered that writing on 'the blinds drive the play' (ie sklansky and caro and whoever) to be more central to limit play (and tourneys of course). in NL, id be happy playing with no blinds whatsoever. and it wouldnt change my opening requirements.
In NLHE the sucker is the blinds. I view NLHE as a game where the amount of dead money in the pot fluctuates wildly. Hence, so do my starting hands.
explain

Do you mean the amount of dead money fluctuates as more people limp (who will fold to a raise) or the amount of dead money goes up when some really loose really useless guy raises or the amount of dead money changes based on how tight the guy on the blind is or what?
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
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Demiparadigm
Old 03-30-2006, 03:22 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by siknd
i always considered that writing on 'the blinds drive the play' (ie sklansky and caro and whoever) to be more central to limit play (and tourneys of course). in NL, id be happy playing with no blinds whatsoever. and it wouldnt change my opening requirements.
In NLHE the sucker is the blinds. I view NLHE as a game where the amount of dead money in the pot fluctuates wildly. Hence, so do my starting hands.
explain

Do you mean the amount of dead money fluctuates as more people limp (who will fold to a raise) or the amount of dead money goes up when some really loose really useless guy raises or the amount of dead money changes based on how tight the guy on the blind is or what?
What is the difference between someone posting an extra blind UTG, and a player who will limp every hand he is dealt?

Do you see where this is going?
To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
 
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Fnord
Old 03-30-2006, 03:24 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
What is the difference between someone posting an extra blind UTG, and a player who will limp every hand he is dealt?
...or better yet auto-raises and blasts away!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
What is the difference between someone posting an extra blind UTG, and a player who will limp every hand he is dealt?
The guy who posts/straddles gets an option to raise limpers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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