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EzDuzIt
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04-28-2007, 02:18 AM
Post subject: when posting in the CO....
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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is it standard when posting in the CO and it folds to you to make a standard raise with ATC? this has always been my strategy and it seems to work well for me. just wondering if this is standard for the rest of you or viewed as a leak... i dont think it is but feel free to convince me otherwise.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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Posting out of the blinds=-EV
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EzDuzIt
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Posting out of the blinds=-EV
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as far as winrate yeah... but you would be getting more hands in so if you are a good wining player its still a good investment compared to waiting for the bb.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Posting out of the blinds=-EV
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not true.
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Vi-Zer0Skill
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Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
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I think posting in the CO is at least = to waiting for the BB. Considering that you are essentially paying (assuming 100NL full table full ring) $1.50 to see 9 sets of hole cards (one full orbit of the table starting at the big blind). If you post in the CO, you are paying $1 to see 6 sets of hole cards. (9/1.5) = (6/1). Plus, instead of starting at the BB (generally a positionally disadvantagious spot postflop, you start in CO (generally a positionally advantagious spot postflop.
Am i missing something?
I like the idea of raising ATC from the CO, provided that:
1). no one has acted before you. for me, that would include limpers. At that point i will just check.
2). the cards are either suited or connected, or i am holding an Ace.
Basically having the preflop being $1 greater preflop increases my incentive to want to steal it, so i increase my CO raising range.
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EzDuzIt
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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yes, and lets say if 3.5xbb here is standard for you, then you are only raising 2.5bbs to win 2.5bbs preflop and if you do get called you do get called you will usually have position post flop and be the aggressor. and your not just basically donating a dollar away unless you hit a flop really well.
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AHiltz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Coldbrook, NS
Posts: 1,589
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I play full ring. I post from the CO. If it folds to me, I raise it 99% of the time with any 2.
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sejje
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 883
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AHiltz
I play full ring. I post from the CO. If it folds to me, I raise it 99% of the time with any 2.
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To protect your 1BB investment? Do you raise 99% if you don't have the blind in?
Are you raising 99% from the BB if only the small blind completes? If no, why not?
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EzDuzIt
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sejje
Quote:
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Originally Posted by AHiltz
I play full ring. I post from the CO. If it folds to me, I raise it 99% of the time with any 2.
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To protect your 1BB investment? Do you raise 99% if you don't have the blind in?
Are you raising 99% from the BB if only the small blind completes? If no, why not? |
no, but you already have 1 in so the raise isnt that as much more and its just a positional raise... you usually take it doen preflop or on the flop.
the only time i wouldnt raise is if i know that there are players behind that are going to call with a very wide range of hands.
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gingerwizard
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,815
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Posting out of the blinds=-EV
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Another compelling argument in addition to the one made by Vi-Zer0Skill is that if you do happen to pick up a monster you are more likely to get paid off by the players who don't believe your raises because you posted. (Think how many times we discuss a hand in which we give less credit to a poster for hving a hand.) This tip the balance making the move +EV, if just from a $$ paid per hand rule the move is neutral.
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This is not my signature. I just write this at the bottom of every post.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Posting out of the blinds=-EV
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A compelling argument indeed.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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Simple test:
If you make > 1BB (so 1/2 ptBB) per hand in CO (or some other position), then it's OK to post. Or if you are just impatient.
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AHiltz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Coldbrook, NS
Posts: 1,589
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sejje
Quote:
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Originally Posted by AHiltz
I play full ring. I post from the CO. If it folds to me, I raise it 99% of the time with any 2.
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To protect your 1BB investment? Do you raise 99% if you don't have the blind in?
Are you raising 99% from the BB if only the small blind completes? If no, why not? |
Not to protect the investment. To immediately start developing a loose image.
If I'm middle position or greateer, I raise anything paired, suited, connected or gapped, and sometimes other. Less than middle position I tighten up.
Unless I have absolute crap, or I know that the SB is known to try and limp tricky stuff from the SB, I make it 3x to go.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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fwiw, your OP is gone. its not your money anymore. there's not much need to protect w/ ATC. and the argument of "i raise 3.5X standard, so, when posting the bb, its really only 2.5X" goes back to the fact your post, and your blind for that matter, is no longer your money. it belongs to the pot.
that said, i do it, too. but not all the time. to me, if you play 6max, i only do it (post outside blinds) from CO. they are coming around quick enough anyway.
however, in a fr game, i will post from UTG+3 and later EVERDAY AND TWICE ON SUNDAY. i believe it makes you look a bit impatient (good for whatever low limit image is worth), but it may make someone notice you. and first impressions are everything, imo.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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EzDuzIt
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Green Bay
Posts: 915
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chopper
fwiw, your OP is gone. its not your money anymore. there's not much need to protect w/ ATC. and the argument of "i raise 3.5X standard, so, when posting the bb, its really only 2.5X" goes back to the fact your post, and your blind for that matter, is no longer your money. it belongs to the pot.
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ok let me make this more clear. im NOT protecting my money.
BUT it is ONLY 2.5xbb more because that money you put in there counts as your raise. so if you have 1 dollar in from posting you only need to put 2.5 more in to make a standard raise. not 3.5 like usual because that 2.5 is added on to the 1 you have in there, the 1 doesnt just isnt taken away and put in the pot. yes its not your money anymore but its still part of your raise. and like i said before its not protecting.... its just a late position raise that works well and you range can be increased even more because it is actually cheaper to raise, also what somebody else said about getting a loose image right away even though that usually doesnt matter too much. if you dont get what i just said, then i dont know how to explain it to you.
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