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tbone
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10-07-2004, 07:10 PM
Post subject: When to lay down AA
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 38
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I had AA in a 25nl ring game. I raised twice bb and was called around the table prob my 1st fualt. The flop comes A 9 10. I bet 5 player to my left calls. turn card is Q. I bet 10. player to my left raises another 5 making the bet 10. I call. the turn is 5 i bet all in and player to my left calls he hit teh straight on hte turn. Any other way u woud have played trips AAA.
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call_me_CHEF
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 38
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How many players saw the flop? There are quite a few drawing hands that make even your set very vulnerable should any paint card hit, like it did and you should not give them reason to draw out on you. I realize after looking again, that you weren't giving odds for him to call, so bad play on his part. but I might just push there so not to get run down, but who knows, as I'm not sure how much was in the pot when you bet the original 5 on the flop.
Also, after calling his raise and not re-raising him, what was your thinking of pushing in on the river? Seems that if you think you had the best hand after the brick hit the river, why not find out on the turn when he raised you.
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-Put 'em in your mouth and suck 'em
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dalecooper
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10-07-2004, 07:34 PM
Post subject: Re: When to lay down AA
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#3 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by tbone
I had AA in a 25nl ring game. I raised twice bb and was called around the table prob my 1st fualt. The flop comes A 9 10. I bet 5 player to my left calls. turn card is Q. I bet 10. player to my left raises another 5 making the bet 10. I call. the turn is 5 i bet all in and player to my left calls he hit teh straight on hte turn. Any other way u woud have played trips AAA.
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I would have bet larger on the flop. It's hard to get drawn out on. I won't suggest that you go all-in the second you hit those trips, but maybe close to it. There's no point holding back; you want them to pay to draw, and your hand probably isn't getting any better unless the board pairs on the turn or river.
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hazelblue
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 76
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This reminds me of a bad beat I got dealt with pocket AA that I lost because I didn't bet hard enough on the flop.
There were two all-ins before me. I called one all-in and raised another, with one other limper who called me.
The flop was a rainbow. The limper made a $2 bet and I called. (BIG MISTAKE thinking I could smooth call on over pair).
On the turn, he makes another $2 bet. I call him. (another stupid mistake).
The river comes. He bets and I call. He makes trips on the river (heraised holding JTs). I should have just went over the top with him on the flop. He only flopped a pair of tens.
Hands like AA, I tend to bet big. It also depends on what kind of raises you can make preflop that will get people to fold. I minimum raise preflop with AA isn't enough. Maybe 10-15x BB?
If you flop trips with AA (or any pair), and the flop looks scary (two cards to a suit/two cards to a straight), bet big... Sometimes you HAVE to push all-in, especially if you have the nuts on the flop. More times than not, someone will call incorrectly and lose.
Those eejits who call your AI or your raise with a flush/straight draw make me cringe, especially if they get a runner-runner.
I went on tilt for a couple of days because that happened.
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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If ANY of those flop cards were suited I would immediately slow down. If a rainbow, I would have taken a stab at it and slowed down if called.
This is a very dangerous flop for aces. You're going to win a small pot or lose a big one.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by LeFou
This is a very dangerous flop for aces. You're going to win a small pot or lose a big one.
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Isn't this quote from Super System? Anyway, it seems to have become one of those reasons thinking players use to make bad plays....
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Yeah, a paraphrase really. He actually says that about big pairs generally -- not just on flops like this. But it looks like it's the high straight draws that are most dangerous.
Esp if you *don't hit the set:
"if it came 987, T98, or JT9 and I've got two people in the pot with me... I immediately give it up [KK or AA] "
That really surprised me, coming from Doyle. Immediately giving up premium pairs?
I bet this surprises a lot of those guys who complain about how "aces suck". I kinda interpret that as "sometimes aces suck, and I can't tell when"
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ginko
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 6
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Only time your going to win big with aces is when someone has KK QQ and sometimes AK. Other times you think you're gonna win a big pot, but realize your opponent has drawed out on you(not hard to do vs a pair).
The flop is evil. Limp preflop and hope to reraise someone holding KQ AK KK etc when they raise. Shut them out or charge them an insane amount to draw. Realize that if they fold, it's simply because they didn't have a hand to compete with you. That's fine because even a mediocre hand has potential to beat you if the flop is seen.
After the flop, your hand turns to garbage unless its heads up. You need to slow down if it is scary(like K-Q-J). A good flop for you is something like K-8-3. The more people who see the flop the less chance you have to win, so be prepared to let go of your hand if someone shows any strength(unless this person is known for betting weak hands like the nuts).
Aces are also good for trapping if you find a tight-passive-agressive player, who hits a flop. (A player who doesn't bet much until he see's the flop, but you know that he only plays good starting hands like KQs or AK or w/e. ) Then you have an overpair to his, and he is really behind.
Anytime you do the usual 4xbb bet or MORE, people are gonna know you have aces, and will only play hands that have a chance of busting you like small PP's for trips. That's what the massive reraise preflop is for. You get a chance to see how many people are coming into the pot, and play according.
ANyways sorry for the long rant, playing high pocket pairs is tricky as hell(especially JJ). Read Super System and PL/NL Poker by caffione. And don't get married to those hands.
As for the drawout, be happy! There is always gonna be that guy who draws out on you, that's what keeps him coming back to poker; his 'luck'. Next time he wont be so lucky and in the long run you will get all the money.
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When you have aces, you either raise it huge (much much more than 2xBB), or you slowplay only as long as you are down to 5 players or less AND you have a good read on your opponents in the pot.
Bottom line, raise big with aces 99% of the time!
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