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superfish
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10-31-2006, 05:47 AM
Post subject: When do you consider you've "beaten" a certain lev
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 10
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I've floated between 1/2 2/4 to 5/10
I can safely say now that I constantly profit at 1/2 and 2/4, but i'm not sure if i can really say I have them beaten.
How do you define that?
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Elexshun
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Da planet Earf
Posts: 46
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This question is a black hole. I am not sure there is any correct answer, as you can always improve. That being said I believe when you can consistently beat a certain level (over a reasonable sample size) then it is time to move up. Maybe you are making $500 a week at 1/2 and you need this money to pay rent. Well shit stick with 1/2 and keep improving there, but in order to see better profits eventually you'll have to play at a higher level. I think a person could make a decent living multi tabling 2/4 actually. Some may disagree , but you could pull 50k a year on 2/4. So again what is your ultimate goal. personally I wouldn't be happy being a great player vs. decent players I would rather work at getting better and better against excellent players (10/20 +) 10/20 I would imagine is %50 professional players.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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is this limit or nl?
At nl, if you bankroll is big enough then move up. When you no longer kep making money, or your winrate falls to a small number, almost breakeven, then move back down and start to figure out if you can improve your play or fix some leaks.
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,604
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Bump.
Anyone else have anything to say about this?
I am about to start playing $25NL with a $4k bankroll. Obviously bankroll isn't an issue right now. When should I move to $50NL?
Someone told me to move up when I have made 10 buyins. Does anyone agree with this?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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dpe8598
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 261
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by courtiebee
Bump.
Anyone else have anything to say about this?
I am about to start playing $25NL with a $4k bankroll. Obviously bankroll isn't an issue right now. When should I move to $50NL?
Someone told me to move up when I have made 10 buyins. Does anyone agree with this?
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I don't think that is a very good rule to move up when you've made 10 buyins. Personally, I feel comfortable playing w/ a bankroll on the site of only 10 buyins, but that is because I've always moved up when I was killing the previous level.
I think the biggest rule is to move up after you have been consistently beating the level you are on for at least a couple months. JMHO. Even then, only move up if you are confident you can beat the next level. I also recommend spending a lot of time watching play at the next level.
I think confidence is so important, because when you move up, you may go directly into a downswing and you don't want to get discouraged there if you know your playing great poker.
Another good thing to do is set a reasonable limit that you will lost at a level before moving down. For example, if you want to move to 1/2, tell yourself if you lost 1600 dollars you will move down and build up again. That isn't a terrible strategy.
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sejje
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 883
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by courtiebee
Bump.
Anyone else have anything to say about this?
I am about to start playing $25NL with a $4k bankroll. Obviously bankroll isn't an issue right now. When should I move to $50NL?
Someone told me to move up when I have made 10 buyins. Does anyone agree with this?
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You're an experienced player in other aspects, correct? I'd say you could probably move up safely after 10 buy-ins, as long as you feel like the game is easy. I don't know what you used to play, but if you're a NL tourney player the transition shouldn't be so hard.
If you swing a lot on your way to 10 buyins, or you luckbox it in 2 sessions, then I might stay a while and be sure.
If you get in above your head, you can always drop back down. 4k is a lot of padding.
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,604
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dpe8598
I don't think that is a very good rule to move up when you've made 10 buyins. Personally, I feel comfortable playing w/ a bankroll on the site of only 10 buyins, but that is because I've always moved up when I was killing the previous level.
I think the biggest rule is to move up after you have been consistently beating the level you are on for at least a couple months. JMHO. Even then, only move up if you are confident you can beat the next level. I also recommend spending a lot of time watching play at the next level.
I think confidence is so important, because when you move up, you may go directly into a downswing and you don't want to get discouraged there if you know your playing great poker.
Another good thing to do is set a reasonable limit that you will lost at a level before moving down. For example, if you want to move to 1/2, tell yourself if you lost 1600 dollars you will move down and build up again. That isn't a terrible strategy.
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I guess I need to find something tailored to my own needs. I know for a fact that I definitely don't have to gain any confidence or play $25NL for two months, but I can see how this would work for someone new to poker. I more need a way to knock out tournament kinks than anything, I am not trying to learn how to play poker from scratch.
Found this thread, kind of helpful. http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-45030.htm
Looking for more advice if anyone has anything to say though. Thanks.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Move up to 50nl when you are winning and when you feel comfortable doing so, simple as that.
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dpe8598
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 261
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by courtiebee
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dpe8598
I don't think that is a very good rule to move up when you've made 10 buyins. Personally, I feel comfortable playing w/ a bankroll on the site of only 10 buyins, but that is because I've always moved up when I was killing the previous level.
I think the biggest rule is to move up after you have been consistently beating the level you are on for at least a couple months. JMHO. Even then, only move up if you are confident you can beat the next level. I also recommend spending a lot of time watching play at the next level.
I think confidence is so important, because when you move up, you may go directly into a downswing and you don't want to get discouraged there if you know your playing great poker.
Another good thing to do is set a reasonable limit that you will lost at a level before moving down. For example, if you want to move to 1/2, tell yourself if you lost 1600 dollars you will move down and build up again. That isn't a terrible strategy.
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I guess I need to find something tailored to my own needs. I know for a fact that I definitely don't have to gain any confidence or play $25NL for two months, but I can see how this would work for someone new to poker. I more need a way to knock out tournament kinks than anything, I am not trying to learn how to play poker from scratch.
Found this thread, kind of helpful. http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-45030.htm
Looking for more advice if anyone has anything to say though. Thanks. |
Ya, for your particular situation I think its pretty clear that you should be able to move up very rapidly. I may have used the wrong word when I said confidence, I might have said mental toughness. IMO it takes a lot more fortitude and patience to play through the bad beats in cash games as opposed to SNGs or tourneys. That is one thing you have to grow accustomed to. JMO though.
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,604
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sejje
You're an experienced player in other aspects, correct? I'd say you could probably move up safely after 10 buy-ins, as long as you feel like the game is easy. I don't know what you used to play, but if you're a NL tourney player the transition shouldn't be so hard.
If you swing a lot on your way to 10 buyins, or you luckbox it in 2 sessions, then I might stay a while and be sure.
If you get in above your head, you can always drop back down. 4k is a lot of padding.
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I'm a NL tournament player, hoping the transition won't be that hard too. As a note, I'm obviously not going into this situation blind; I'm doing a crapload of reading before playing. Just need to figure something out that makes sense.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,604
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God I post slow.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,604
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dpe8598
IMO it takes a lot more fortitude and patience to play through the bad beats in cash games as opposed to SNGs or tourneys. That is one thing you have to grow accustomed to. JMO though.
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You ever been two outed on a FT bubble? 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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dpe8598
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 261
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by courtiebee
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dpe8598
IMO it takes a lot more fortitude and patience to play through the bad beats in cash games as opposed to SNGs or tourneys. That is one thing you have to grow accustomed to. JMO though.
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You ever been two outed on a FT bubble? |
I was three outted on a WSOP main event satellite bubble, ha! I'm not kidding at all.
Anyway, I'm not saying that the beats aren't as bad, or that there are more of them. Only that, at least IMO, cash games are more repetitive and less exciting then tourney games. Therefore, long losing streaks w/ lots of bad beats are etra tiring. EVeryone is different, jmo.
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bearcats05
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 336
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dpe8598
Quote:
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Originally Posted by courtiebee
Bump.
Anyone else have anything to say about this?
I am about to start playing $25NL with a $4k bankroll. Obviously bankroll isn't an issue right now. When should I move to $50NL?
Someone told me to move up when I have made 10 buyins. Does anyone agree with this?
|
I don't think that is a very good rule to move up when you've made 10 buyins. Personally, I feel comfortable playing w/ a bankroll on the site of only 10 buyins, but that is because I've always moved up when I was killing the previous level.
I think the biggest rule is to move up after you have been consistently beating the level you are on for at least a couple months. JMHO. Even then, only move up if you are confident you can beat the next level. I also recommend spending a lot of time watching play at the next level.
I think confidence is so important, because when you move up, you may go directly into a downswing and you don't want to get discouraged there if you know your playing great poker.
Another good thing to do is set a reasonable limit that you will lost at a level before moving down. For example, if you want to move to 1/2, tell yourself if you lost 1600 dollars you will move down and build up again. That isn't a terrible strategy. |
wouldnt you have more than only 10 buyins if you were killing the previous level? or was your "killing" just over like 500-1000 hands?
as for courtiebee once you get used to ring play and as long as you are beating it move up because there much difference moving up to 50nl and you have the bankroll easily.
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dpe8598
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 261
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bearcats05
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dpe8598
Quote:
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Originally Posted by courtiebee
Bump.
Anyone else have anything to say about this?
I am about to start playing $25NL with a $4k bankroll. Obviously bankroll isn't an issue right now. When should I move to $50NL?
Someone told me to move up when I have made 10 buyins. Does anyone agree with this?
|
I don't think that is a very good rule to move up when you've made 10 buyins. Personally, I feel comfortable playing w/ a bankroll on the site of only 10 buyins, but that is because I've always moved up when I was killing the previous level.
I think the biggest rule is to move up after you have been consistently beating the level you are on for at least a couple months. JMHO. Even then, only move up if you are confident you can beat the next level. I also recommend spending a lot of time watching play at the next level.
I think confidence is so important, because when you move up, you may go directly into a downswing and you don't want to get discouraged there if you know your playing great poker.
Another good thing to do is set a reasonable limit that you will lost at a level before moving down. For example, if you want to move to 1/2, tell yourself if you lost 1600 dollars you will move down and build up again. That isn't a terrible strategy. |
wouldnt you have more than only 10 buyins if you were killing the previous level? or was your "killing" just over like 500-1000 hands?
as for courtiebee once you get used to ring play and as long as you are beating it move up because there much difference moving up to 50nl and you have the bankroll easily. |
I take out money almost every week.
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bearcats05
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 336
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oh so you like always run good?
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{solicitation URL removed by Xianti}
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dpe8598
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 261
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Thats an avg. Also, I play about 30000 hands a month.
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lolzzz_321
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NO YOU
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: My ice is polarized
Posts: 2,797
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Courtie, play 100NL.
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Blinky
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: nutpeddlers anonymous
Posts: 459
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by courtiebee
I'm doing a crapload of reading before playing. Just need to figure something out that makes sense.
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Read less, play more.
Just jump in a few tables of 25NL, nutpeddle, run a few hundred hands and evaluate... see how things are going... if they're going super well, then you can tackle the question of "when to move up". Get pokertracker.
Or, just play 200 NL and move up when you have 25 buyins at 400 nl 
The latter is not serious advice of course.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rondavu
We will not support your pocket pair aggression.
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,604
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Triptan3s
Courtie, play 100NL.
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why?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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lolzzz_321
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NO YOU
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: My ice is polarized
Posts: 2,797
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Because making money is fun.
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lolzzz_321
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NO YOU
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: My ice is polarized
Posts: 2,797
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You're not confident enough to play 100NL?
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,604
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Blinky
Read less, play more.
Just jump in a few tables of 25NL, nutpeddle, run a few hundred hands and evaluate... see how things are going... if they're going super well, then you can tackle the question of "when to move up". Get pokertracker.
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I know that I can win "nudpeddling", it doesn't take a very good poker player to do that. Obviously there should be a degree of that when I'm playing, but I don't necessarily wanna load up a bunch of tables to set farm.
I gots PT and PAHUD.
P.S. Thanks for your blog comment 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,604
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Triptan3s
You're not confident enough to play 100NL?
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I am pretty damn sure I would lose a TON of money if I tried to play 100NL.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Enough talk. Start playing, ffs. We expect hand histories starting tomorrow.
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Blinky
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: nutpeddlers anonymous
Posts: 459
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by courtiebee
I know that I can win "nudpeddling", it doesn't take a very good poker player to do that. Obviously there should be a degree of that when I'm playing, but I don't necessarily wanna load up a bunch of tables to set farm.
P.S. Thanks for your blog comment |
... you're welcome.
I don't literally mean setfarm. That's no fun and doesn't take much skill... but sets should be a part of any healthy hold'em lifestyle. I only 2 or 3 table anyways.
Take lots of notes... what people are opening with and in what position, how aggro (or weak) they are postflop...
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rondavu
We will not support your pocket pair aggression.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by courtiebee
Bump.
Anyone else have anything to say about this?
I am about to start playing $25NL with a $4k bankroll. Obviously bankroll isn't an issue right now. When should I move to $50NL?
Someone told me to move up when I have made 10 buyins. Does anyone agree with this?
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play 15k hands and show a positivie winrate then move up. To be honest you could probably jump in at 100nl and play really quite tight and show profit, but the learning curve may be a little steeper than you really want.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by courtiebee
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Triptan3s
You're not confident enough to play 100NL?
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I am pretty damn sure I would lose a TON of money if I tried to play 100NL. |
I soooooo want to write stop talking like a tourney donk under this! Oooops i just did. [/quote]
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