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philly and the phanatics
Old 08-02-2009, 07:09 PM     Post subject: when do i shut down #1 (permalink)  
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philly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the rough
 if you look at the results you'll see how lucky i got, but when in a situation like this, and with most cbetting/double barrelling
do you just say, ok im beat, c/f?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($3.11)
MP2 ($1.44)
CO ($3.05)
Button ($0.96)
SB ($1.72)
BB ($5.09)
UTG ($0.82)
Hero (UTG+1) ($4.86)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K, K
1 fold, Hero bets $0.08, MP1 calls $0.08, 3 folds, SB calls $0.07, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.26) A, 10, 8 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.20, MP1 calls $0.20, 1 fold

Turn: ($0.66) 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.40, MP1 calls $0.40

River: ($1.46) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.60, MP1 calls $0.60

Total pot: $2.66 | Rake: $0.10

Results below:
Hero had K, K (one pair, Kings).
MP1 had J, J (one pair, Jacks).
Outcome: Hero won $2.56
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Stacks
Old 08-02-2009, 07:15 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 Why are you betting 3 streets here? Do you honestly think you can bet 3 streets here for value, meaning being ahead of villain's calling range for 3 streets?
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philly and the phanatics
Old 08-02-2009, 08:24 PM #3 (permalink)  
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philly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Why are you betting 3 streets here? Do you honestly think you can bet 3 streets here for value, meaning being ahead of villain's calling range for 3 streets?
no, i should have posted that he is 34/10 over 50 hands, so i guess a9+ is well within his range and he would probably be calling along just like this the whole way...but how would you play this? bet flop, c/c turn depending on bet size?


edit: and the reason for the 60 cent river bet is more of a blocking bet, correct me if i am not seeing this right, i didnt want to c/f cause it was a 1.46 pot....if i get c/r'd i fold and i guess i waste 60 cents, but he had been pretty passive the whole hand

double edit: can i put the JJ in a range of people with his stats in general or do i only now know this information on this one player?
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killnine
Old 08-03-2009, 01:57 PM #4 (permalink)  

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killnine
Quote:
Originally Posted by philly and the phanatics
double edit: can i put the JJ in a range of people with his stats in general or do i only now know this information on this one player?
He flats your open preflop, which puts most pocket pairs in his range, I think. He doesn't have set odds, exactly, but pocket jacks don't really need those I suppose because it's a powerful hand.
Someone with more experience can correct me here if needed.
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philly and the phanatics
Old 08-03-2009, 05:38 PM #5 (permalink)  
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philly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the roughphilly and the phanatics is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by killnine
Quote:
Originally Posted by philly and the phanatics
double edit: can i put the JJ in a range of people with his stats in general or do i only now know this information on this one player?
He flats your open preflop, which puts most pocket pairs in his range, I think. He doesn't have set odds, exactly, but pocket jacks don't really need those I suppose because it's a powerful hand.
Someone with more experience can correct me here if needed.
i would agree that most people could have pp's given the way this was played preflop, but i think that changes with all the action with the ace on the board.
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Cougar
Old 08-03-2009, 06:53 PM #6 (permalink)  
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KK really struggles on A-High board, especially @ 2 NL where PF it's "OMG, I HAVE AN ACE!!"

My advice is to check flop and try to get to river as cheaply as possible. Maybe call down a small bet along the way and consider a value bet on river if nobody bets up to that point.

But without reads, definitely fold to any substantial aggression (yeah, I know it hurts to fold KK).
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"...only time you stop learning is when your own ignorance & arrogance stops you from doing so!" -Martin Pritchett
 
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dontezuma
Old 08-03-2009, 07:38 PM #7 (permalink)  
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I've struggled mightily with "The Big Laydown" and getting to the river for the right price in cash games, being mostly a tourney player, but have made some big laydowns recently that may or may not have been good, including AA on a QJ8 A 10 hand where KQ or KJ were all over villain's range and he value bet $4 into a $12 pot on the river in 50NL.

I also laid down 99 on a KK9 board when the turn and river were 8 8, and frisky action led me to believe a K was his only likely holding. In reviewing that, he may have had JJ or QQ as well, and I suck, but the point is, at these levels, keeping the pot the right size and not losing a buyin with top pair is a critical skill that I am just now learning myself.
 
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Stacks
Old 08-03-2009, 08:14 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 Either bet/fold the flop, or check/fold. Due to the flush draw + straight draws, and the likelihood of 2nl players to call with numerous worse hands (8x, Tx, etc), I would probably bet/fold the flop, then check/fold the turn and river here.
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