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When do I give up on my AK?

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lparnes

06-05-2006, 10:14 AM Post subject: When do I give up on my AK?

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2006

Posts: 12

Table 'Roemera' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: missle9 ($106.75 in chips)
Seat 2: Yonigson ($88.10 in chips)
Seat 3: Munkeyd00d ($18.30 in chips)
Seat 5: ec5588 ($128.80 in chips)
Seat 6: mkgrn ($23.80 in chips)
Seat 7: canuckpro ($56.70 in chips)
Seat 8: SieTlaS ($100 in chips)
Seat 9: skipp310 ($100.45 in chips)
missle9: posts small blind $0.50
Yonigson: posts big blind $1
Munkeyd00d: posts small & big blinds $1.50
SieTlaS: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Yonigson [As Kh]
Munkeyd00d: checks
ec5588: folds
mkgrn: folds
canuckpro: folds
SieTlaS: checks
skipp310: folds
missle9: calls $0.50
Yonigson: raises $3 to $4
Munkeyd00d: calls $3
SieTlaS: calls $3
missle9: calls $3
*** FLOP *** [7h 3h 9d]
missle9: checks
Yonigson: bets $5
Munkeyd00d: raises $5 to $10
SieTlaS: folds
missle9: folds
Yonigson: calls $5
*** TURN *** [7h 3h 9d] [2h]
Yonigson: checks
Munkeyd00d: bets $3.80 and is all-in
Yonigson: calls $3.80
*** RIVER *** [7h 3h 9d 2h] [Qc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Yonigson: shows [As Kh] (high card Ace)
Munkeyd00d: shows [3d Ah] (a pair of Threes)
Munkeyd00d collected $42 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $44.10 | Rake $2.10
Board [7h 3h 9d 2h Qc]
Seat 1: missle9 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: Yonigson (big blind) showed [As Kh] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 3: Munkeyd00d showed [3d Ah] and won ($42) with a pair of Threes
Seat 5: ec5588 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: mkgrn folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: canuckpro folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: SieTlaS folded on the Flop
Seat 9: skipp310 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

After looking at poker tracker, I lose far too much money on getting called down on an ACE high with AK after firing bullets on the flop, turn and river. When do I throw away AK ? Heres another situation.

POKERSTARS GAME #5117171364: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/06/01 - 04:22:04 (ET)
Table 'Apollo' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Yonigson ($37.65 in chips)
Seat 2: missle9 ($88.10 in chips)
Seat 3: VizorBoy ($115 in chips)
Seat 5: beatsone ($82.60 in chips)
Seat 6: Park3 ($91.25 in chips)
Seat 7: Yasuhisa ($75.40 in chips)
Seat 8: nuts69 ($98 in chips)
Seat 9: skibandit666 ($317.90 in chips)
randy2001 will be allowed to play after the button
beatsone: posts small blind $0.50
Park3: posts big blind $1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Yonigson [Ad Kh]
Yasuhisa: folds
nuts69: folds
skibandit666: folds
Yonigson: raises $2.50 to $3.50
missle9: folds
VizorBoy: folds
beatsone: folds
Park3: calls $2.50
*** FLOP *** [4d 5s 4s]
Park3: checks
Yonigson: bets $4
Park3: calls $4
*** TURN *** [4d 5s 4s] [Th]
Park3: checks
Yonigson: bets $9
Park3: calls $9
*** RIVER *** [4d 5s 4s Th] [7c]
Park3: checks
Yonigson: bets $21.15 and is all-in
Park3: calls $21.15
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Yonigson: shows [Ad Kh] (a pair of Fours)
Park3: shows [6s 6h] (two pair, Sixes and Fours)
Park3 collected $72.80 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $75.80 | Rake $3
Board [4d 5s 4s Th 7c]
Seat 1: Yonigson showed [Ad Kh] and lost with a pair of Fours
Seat 2: missle9 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: VizorBoy (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: beatsone (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Park3 (big blind) showed [6s 6h] and won ($72.80) with two pair, Sixes and Fours
Seat 7: Yasuhisa folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: nuts69 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: skibandit666 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

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andy-akb

06-05-2006, 11:39 AM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Maine

Posts: 1,836

woah, dont play $100nl, especially with a shortstack and if you are asking these questions.

In the first hand you should have folded on the flop, in the second hand you should have raised more preflop and then checked behind the turn and not put anymore money in.

givememyleg

06-05-2006, 04:41 PM

#3 (permalink)

WHO YA GONNA CALL?!??
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Posts: 5,040

Ya what andy said... are you properly rolled for 100nl? It really doesn't look like it...

You had Ace high in both of these hands and ended up allin... so many people overplay an unimproved AK.

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jungy121

06-05-2006, 06:03 PM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2006

Posts: 95

stop overplaying AK, it's ok if you lose a pot with AK. you don't always have to win.

Toadstool

06-06-2006, 12:58 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Posts: 442

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think to youself, What do i hold? I only have ace high, my hand is of the same value currently as A4o. If I was holding A4o would I play it like that? NO. you need to be able to let go of a missed AK, Far too many players Overvalue it even if it misses the flop just because it is a good starting hand. Be disciplined.

WhooFleuryScores

06-06-2006, 01:25 AM

#6 (permalink)

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Location: Massachusetts

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Second hand: What are you doing with barely 45BB at NL100?

Preflop: Raise is ok

Flop: c-bet is ok.

Turn:I think a bet or check is fine.At this point an Ace could easily be counterfeit for you(if someone is drawing to a wheel,and alot of clowns play any Ax so your Ace coould make two pair anyways for them.

River:You really need a good read that opponent is on a busted draw and is willing to lay it down.You have the nut no pair.He prob saw you were shortstacked and depserate,and he figured his Sixes were worth a showdown.

Essentially this is another overplayed AK hand.......it takes a while to fight but I eventually got over it somewhat.

First hand: Good;you have 80BB (although I prefer topping off).

Preflop:Raise is ok.

Flop: Fold.His reraise is not good.If you had the Ace of hearts then your hand has slightly added redraw value for the backdoor flush;but we really can't presume you are drawing live.Against a shortstack I muck this and save my BB's.

And.......please use the hand converter.I had to paste your hh into pokerhand.org to follow it..........

Chicago_Kid

06-08-2006, 04:27 AM

#7 (permalink)

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This is a classic leak. When I raise AK OOP and get 3 or more callers and miss, I will often check and look to give it up. AK is a BAD hand in big, multiway pots, particularly out of position.

On second hand, I'd need a read, but I'm either check/folding the turn or river. The problem with taking AK too far is that even if you hit an A on the turn, you might be up against a donk with Ax and get owned by two pr.

"Been gone so long, forgot how to poker"

Vrax

06-17-2006, 08:53 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Posts: 632

Repping the made hand works better against big stacks who muck their missed PP's and sometimes even top pair facing 2nd barrel - they know that they will face huge bets on later streets. Against shorties you don't create implied threat and bluffing is less effective. If you want more c-bet/fold ratio, play with big stack and do it against other nitty big stack, not with 45BB.

"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy

Fnord

06-17-2006, 10:03 PM

#9 (permalink)

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I think people do this to themselves when they don't play enough hands pre-flop. Discuss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

samsonite2100

06-17-2006, 10:31 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Quote:

I think people do this to themselves when they don't play enough hands pre-flop. Discuss.

If what you're saying is that people who play very few hands pre-flop tend to overplay their premium hands, I definitely agree. If you sit there for thirty minutes hitting the muck button and then finally catch AK, you're naturally going to overvalue it.

jackvance

06-17-2006, 10:38 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Is this like a joke thread?..

Btw I think I overvalue AK aswell.. it's kinda like "Ah finally a decent hand after all the crap that I've been raising!"

Vrax

06-17-2006, 11:14 PM

#12 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Poland

Posts: 632

But it was sooted!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hand #334270660 at table: Table TH Mini
Started: Sun Jun 18 00:11:20 2006

blubb is at seat 1 with 26.47
bubosvöcsö is at seat 2 with 6.38
_Vrax_ is at seat 3 with 23.34
R3GUL4TOR is at seat 4 with 6.55
maxrol is at seat 5 with 8.56
Kingoli|DB is at seat 6 with 26.10
yoofej is at seat 7 with 48.00
dhaetr_tec is at seat 8 with 24.50
redman7 is at seat 9 with 4.75
guppi is at seat 10 with 13.69

Kingoli|DB posts the large blind 0.25
maxrol posts the small blind 0.12

maxrol: --, --
Kingoli|DB: --, --
yoofej: --, --
dhaetr_tec: --, --
redman7: --, --
guppi: --, --
blubb: --, --
bubosvöcsö: --, --
_Vrax_: :Ac:, :Kc: beautiful OMG I'm in love

Pre-flop:

yoofej: Fold
dhaetr_tec: Fold
redman7: Check
guppi: Call 0.25
blubb: Fold
bubosvöcsö: Call 0.25
_Vrax_: Raise 1.00
maxrol: Fold
Kingoli|DB: Call 1.00
redman7: Fold
guppi: Fold
bubosvöcsö: Fold

Flop (Board: 5d, 5c, 2s):

Kingoli|DB: Bet 1.00
_Vrax_: Raise 3.00
Kingoli|DB: Call 3.00

Turn (Board: 5d, 5c, 2s, 3c):

Kingoli|DB: Check
_Vrax_: Bet 6.00
Kingoli|DB: Call 6.00

River (Board: 5d, 5c, 2s, 3c, 6d):

Kingoli|DB: Check
_Vrax_: All in
Kingoli|DB: Call 13.34

Showdown:

_Vrax_ shows: Ac, Kc (a pair of Fives)
Kingoli|DB shows: 2h, 2c (full house)
_Vrax_ makes notes of Kingoli "trapping nit", reloads, reduces frequency of bluffs and starts to strong hands really fast.

Good thing is that after that hand I started to get shitload of flop turn and river calls on that table and suddenly my overpairs were worth playing for stack. Then my KK broke nit's overpayed QQ and I got plenty of turn calls with TPTK vs my overpairs...

"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy

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