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when is it correct to go all the way with a single pair?

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donkbee

11-05-2006, 09:48 PM Post subject: when is it correct to go all the way with a single pair?

#1 (permalink)

WELP

Join Date: May 2005

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Posts: 3,604

A big problem I'm having since moving from tourneys to ring is knowing whether or not my top pair or similar type hand is good. A lot of the times I’m folding because I feel it’s just not worth it to get involved with TP in a small-ish pot when there’s a chance I could be crushed. That leads me to worry that I’m folding too much. Are there general guidelines to knowing whether or not you’re up against a worst single pair or something that has you badly beat? Or do you have to have reads on the people you’re playing, ie. knowing who overvalues single pairs and knowing who doesn’t?

In the hand below, I’ve already been told that my flop bet was a bit too small. I also think that perhaps my turn raise was on the small side as well. Now the river … what hands push that? The fact that the river was a club made it easier to fold this. What if the the river hadn’t been a club and the villian had pushed? How much does that change the situation?

Answers to all questions appreciated, thanks.

PokerStars Game #6906648293: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2006/11/05 - 16:32:04 (ET)
Table 'Educatio' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: ZeroRules11 ($9.80 in chips)
Seat 2: courtiebee ($49.10 in chips)
Seat 3: seppjones ($24.75 in chips)
Seat 4: luxuryjun1 ($25 in chips)
Seat 5: Krassancho ($30.55 in chips)
Seat 6: PretenderTUW ($30.10 in chips)
Seat 7: nicewarmpoo ($6.45 in chips)
Seat 8: thanpimp ($28.15 in chips)
Seat 9: Felipe XV ($30.50 in chips)
seppjones: posts small blind $0.10
luxuryjun1: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to courtiebee [As Ad]
Krassancho: folds
PretenderTUW: folds
nicewarmpoo: folds
thanpimp: folds
Felipe XV: folds
ZeroRules11: folds
courtiebee: raises $0.75 to $1
seppjones: folds
luxuryjun1: calls $0.75
*** FLOP *** [3s Jc 5c]
luxuryjun1: checks
courtiebee: bets $1.25
luxuryjun1: calls $1.25
*** TURN *** [3s Jc 5c] [Kd]
luxuryjun1: bets $2.75
courtiebee: raises $4.25 to $7
luxuryjun1: calls $4.25
*** RIVER *** [3s Jc 5c Kd] [7c]
luxuryjun1: bets $15.75 and is all-in
courtiebee: folds
luxuryjun1 collected $17.70 from pot

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

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bigslikk

11-05-2006, 11:51 PM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: Chicago

Posts: 445

Hmm... tricky- he either he has something good or caught a king or both. Small pp turned set, AK, or JK... doesn't seem like he would lead turn if he didn't have 1 pair beat. Unless he had AK, but no pfr.

martindcx1e

11-06-2006, 12:49 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 3,614

anyone else just like a call on the turn?

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Galapogos

11-06-2006, 01:37 AM

#4 (permalink)

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No, I like the way she played this. Continue the aggression on the turn because you don't want to encourage a bluff from the villian on the river.

I personally feel better folding the river here after the turn action than I would had I only called the turn.

There are times Courtie, but this is not one of them. At 25NL, returned aggression = better hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.

martindcx1e

11-06-2006, 01:41 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

what do you put villain on after he donks the turn? i don't think draws play like this too often.

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melinda27

11-06-2006, 03:57 AM

#6 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 165

I'm thinking KJ here, a flush is possible too with the turn bet setting her a good price. the push is enough to make me fold that here.

In general I dont like to play big pots with 1 pair hands unless i have a redraw then i'll build a big pot and most often can justify getting it all in on the river if my redraw doesnt come home. With no redraws i just keep the pot small with a 2/3 pot, 1/2 pot and river check behind or blocking bet, maybe a 1/4 pot value bet in position against a known calling station.

TerryToma

11-06-2006, 04:16 AM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2006

Location: wisconsin

Posts: 823

i think it is well played.. i like a bigger bet on the flop though.. just to be picky. by riv you are usually beat with that push.

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swiggidy

11-06-2006, 04:58 AM

#8 (permalink)

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At 25NL you are generally behind after this turn bet.

Def need to bet 3/4-full pot instead of 1/2-3/4

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Setzy

11-06-2006, 06:41 AM

#9 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Kentucky

Posts: 399

You said you already know, but at the same time it's important to realize why the flop bet is important. With the line that has been run, you've built a large pot in a situation where it was not totally warranted. It is very possible that villain sees the flop bet (barely over 1/2) as weakness, and leads out on the turn because of that with TPTK or who knows what.

If you bet larger on the flop, it sends a bigger message to the villain that "Hey, bring it." or get out of my pot.

As played, I think a call on the turn would be better. The turn raise sets you up for awkward situations on the river, and villain definitely puts you in one here. If you call on the turn instead of raise, you exercise pot control with your position. You can more easily fold to villain's push (as it would be a pretty big overbet)

AA is a great hand to get allin with (usually as the aggressor). In this situation, I don't think so.

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Warpe

11-06-2006, 02:53 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Join Date: Sep 2005

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Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Def need to bet 3/4-full pot instead of 1/2-3/4

donkbee

11-06-2006, 05:26 PM Post subject: Re: when is it correct to go all the way with a single pair?

#11 (permalink)

WELP

Join Date: May 2005

Location: so close but so far

Posts: 3,604

Quote:

Originally Posted by courtiebee

In the hand below, I’ve already been told that my flop bet was a bit too small.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.

martindcx1e

11-06-2006, 05:52 PM Post subject: Re: when is it correct to go all the way with a single pair?

#12 (permalink)

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Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 3,614

Quote:

Originally Posted by courtiebee

Quote:

Originally Posted by courtiebee

In the hand below, I’ve already been told that my flop bet was a bit too small.

lol get used to that

Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.

swiggidy

11-06-2006, 06:02 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Setzy

AA is a great hand to get allin with as the aggressor. In this situation, I don't think so.

If villain had just called on flop and turn, and the river had been a diamond then I would put it all-in.

Calling big bets with one pair at micro-limits is almost always wrong.

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(")_(")

dpe8598

11-06-2006, 07:29 PM

#14 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 261

FWIW, I really really liked the way this hand was played. Pat yourself on the back and take it down next time.

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